Everton and Liverpool discussion

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

No, you're ripping the pi$$ out of it now anto! There is always a chance that a team with quality players like Gerrard, Alonso, Hyypia, Riise, Garcia etc can get their act together and win a competition. These are top class experienced internationals. Everton on the other hand......are you seriously trying to tell us that the likes of Lee Carsley, Alan Stubbs, Duncan Ferguson, Marcus Bent, Kevin Kilbane, Pistone are capable of winning the European Cup?! :p Remove your head from your arse FFS! As good as Evertons achievement is, Liverpool still operate on a different planet to them. Ye'll be looking up at the 'Pool again next season, and from a distance.

You should just be grateful that you have qualified for Europe, but no, it just goes to your head and now your warped logic is telling us that you can be successful in Europe! Stop comparing yourselves to Liverpool, because there is no comparison. Everton finish above the most successful British club of all time for the first time in 20 years and all of a sudden ye are world beaters? Spurs, Boro and Newcastle is who you should be measuring Evertons achievements against - clubs who spend loads of money, on crap players, yet never win anything, and have an honours list that you could write on a beer mat.

Come back to us when Everton actually achieve something worth while, like getting to a major final. Just getting to one would be a huge thing, ye wouldn't even have to win it....... :rolleyes:

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Have to agree some points Anto made are bit over the top but he should have his his day as his team did excellent this year.

Football is a team game, and the way Everton have played, as a TEAM, this season has been more effective
than the way that Liverpool have - hence the superior league position.


However, merely listing your best 4-5 players and comparing them randomly to
Everton players doesn't really mean a lot. In fact, I would also have
chosen Bent ahead of Morientes if both were to be asked to do the job that
Bent has done so well this season.

You seem to believe that having lots of expensive players makes you into a
good team... an idea disproved on a regular basis by your previous manager,
and specifically by an Everton TEAM that survived the (permanent, not
temporary) loss of its best player, not once but twice!


You may also wonder why your superstars have managed to concede more goals
than Everon's honest pros despite having such luminaries. Carsley and Stubbs
have put in the work, week in, week out, without grabbing headlines, just
playing a solid, tight, competetive football. I suspect you may have done
rather better if you had more players who had shown the consistency and
desire epitomised by these two. Perhaps you should also look at some of the
frankly abysmal performances displayed by practically full strength
Liverpool sides this season - Birmingham, Palace, Southampton... Or doesn't
this suit your argument?

As to the Derbies... 3 points each, 2 goals each - and Everton scored at
Anfield - if this was a European fixture you would have lost. HOw does this
make Liverpool better than Everton?

Liverpool have also had a certain amount of luck in getting this far, or
perhaps you have already forgotten the three times Chelsea had beaten
Liverpool already this season by the time you sneaked past them in Europe
following Chelsea's least impressive performance of the season. Anyway, the
question remains - Did this Liverpool team LOOK as though it could have got
this far? Based on League performances I would say not, but the only way
such questions can ever really be answered is by actually playing the games.
A better question would be "Does this Everton team look like it could
achieve 4th place in the league?" No? Well appearances can be deceptive!

My 10 cent worth ;)

i must be missing some thing i allways thought that at the end of a season the best team for the full year is on top second best is in second etc etc ... :confused:

but in actual fact its the team that finishes 5th is the best .
thanks for clearing that up for me lads , i might have embarassesd myself .phew!! :o

but im still a little bit confused , since ye have a much better team play better football etc etc why did ye not finish higher than us in the league which is the only comp that you get a fair reflection of a teams talent from ?? ;)

at no point did i say everton will win it , i said they could , same as no one thought greece would win the euro's but they did , you cant right off any team we could buy really good players in the summer and surprise a few people ( the same one that said we would go down this year !!!)


this isnt really directed at 4tothe floor coz at least you were big enough to admit it was a great achievement for moyes to get everton into 4th (rather than calling it a fluke how 61 points won is a fluke i dont understand !).the same way i admit its a great achievment for liverpool to get to the final . i wont take anything away from them you dont get to a final with out deserving it .luck or no luck its the champs league there isnt any easy games

and as i said before i hope they do win it it will be great for the english game to have an english champions of europe again

by the way we have had f all to shout about for 10 years so excuse me for getting excited by it , it may only last one summer so im going to enjoy it while i can .

ciaran76, you could have saved yourself writing all that drivle, I don't think you get what is being said. No one here is arguing that Liverpool were better than Everton in the league this year, cos they weren't. The league table doesn't lie. So what exactly is your point?

The simple fact is this. If Liverpool played to their potential in the league, they'd be challenging for a place in the top 3, never mind 4th. As it happens, they were brutal in the league, and Everton have taken advantage of this. Now if you want to be picky and selective with your memories of this season, here's something for you to chew on. It's easy to forget that at one stage, Benitez had 13 players on the treatment table. For long periods, he had to make do with Neil Mellor up front on his own, or alongside Pongolle. He was bereft of strikers as they were all injured. He was without Gerrard for the first 3 months of the season, after he broke his foot at Old Trafford. He lost Cisse to a broken Leg. He lost Nunez as soon as he signed him to a ligament injury. He lost Garcia to a hamstring injury for 6 weeks. He lost Baros to the same injury for 8 weeks. He lost Didi Hamann on numerous occasions to long term injuries. He lost Alonso to a broken ankle. He lost Pongolle to a ligament injury. He lost Mellor to knee surgery. Harry Kewell out injured almost all season. Then you have the goalkeeping injuries. But lets ignore all that and just pretend that it didn't happen. Lets ignore the fact that a squad down to its bare bones at times still had to play Champions League and the domestic fixtures with youngsters and reserve players thrown in in key positions...... :rolleyes:

How do you expect a foreign manager to come into a new league and attain consistency with an injury debacle like that? Alonso and Gerrard have played only 14 games together this season, and that's not by choice! That Rafa Benitez has got this side to champions league and League Cup finals is a superb achievement. That he had them fighting for 4th this long despite the injuries was an achievement in itself. So don't try and tell me that in the wider scheme of things Everton are a better side than Liverpool, cos had Liverpool had their full compliment this season, they'd have left Everton for dust.

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Originally Posted by ciaran76

Liverpool have also had a certain amount of luck in getting this far, or perhaps you have already forgotten the three times Chelsea had beaten
Liverpool already this season by the time you sneaked past them in Europe
following Chelsea's least impressive performance of the season.

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Another example of your selective memory. Liverpool and luck? The first bit of luck Liverpool had this season was the 'goal' in the semi-final. And the irony is that the ref actually did Chelsea a favour by giving the goal rather than the pen and Cech off. Chelsea beat Liverpool 3 times? They didn't deserve one of those victories, Liverpool were robbed at Anfield and Cardiff. And finally, the reason it was one of Chelsea's least impressive performances was because Liverpool made them look ordinary. The same way that they made the Serie A champions elect look ordinary. So chew on that ;)

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Originally Posted by razor

Well that can surely only point to one other club. ;)

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and u would be very wrong razor ;)

[QUOTE=4tothefloor]
Now if you want to be picky and selective with your memories of this season, here's something for you to chew on. It's easy to forget that at one stage, Benitez had 13 players on the treatment table. For long periods, he had to make do with Neil Mellor up front on his own, or alongside Pongolle. He was bereft of strikers as they were all injured. He was without Gerrard for the first 3 months of the season, after he broke his foot at Old Trafford. He lost Cisse to a broken Leg. He lost Nunez as soon as he signed him to a ligament injury. He lost Garcia to a hamstring injury for 6 weeks. He lost Baros to the same injury for 8 weeks. He lost Didi Hamann on numerous occasions to long term injuries. He lost Alonso to a broken ankle. He lost Pongolle to a ligament injury. He lost Mellor to knee surgery. Harry Kewell out injured almost all season. Then you have the goalkeeping injuries. But lets ignore all that and just pretend that it didn't happen. Lets ignore the fact that a squad down to its bare bones at times still had to play Champions League and the domestic fixtures with youngsters and reserve players thrown in in key positions...... :rolleyes: QUOTE]
:rolleyes:

As for injuries and champions league commitments, take a look at the
relative strength in depth of Everton's 22 man playing staff versus the 42
players on the roll over the park. In case that you never noticed Everton
played most of the season with a lone striker and it wasn't always just down
to tactics. ;)

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Originally Posted by ciaran76

As for injuries and champions league commitments, take a look at the
relative strength in depth of Everton's 22 man playing staff versus the 42
players on the roll over the park. In case that you never noticed Everton
played most of the season with a lone striker and it wasn't always just down
to tactics. ;)

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Name the 42 Liverpool players then. And when I say players, i'm not talking about 4th choice goalkeepers or youngsters who are given a squad number as a token gesture. Once you name the squad, you can then see for yourself how bad the injuries were to KEY players

stop using the injury list as an excuse its a poor one . at one stage in the season everton had 11 fit first team players , on the bench were 2 reserves and 3 youth team players .
you talk about loosing gerrard for 3 months we lost grav for half a season .
you talk about loosing strikers we lost rooney ( probibly the best young player in the league ) and radz for the full season .

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Originally Posted by anto1208

you talk about loosing strikers we lost rooney ( probibly the best young player in the league ) and radz for the full season .

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What are you on about, ye SOLD those players, they LEFT Everton! If that's the case, sure why not throw in Michael Owen, Danny Murphy to our list for good measure :rolleyes:

It's convenient for you not to use the injuries as an excuse, as it's the main reason ye finished above Liverpool. Xabi Alonso alone would have made significent difference to the second half of Liverpool's season, never mind the rest. But just for the purposes of Everton supporters, we'll ignore the injuries and pretend that Igor Biscan, Neil Mellor are adequate replacements......

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Name the 42 Liverpool players then. And when I say players, i'm not talking about 4th choice goalkeepers or youngsters who are given a squad number as a token gesture. Once you name the squad, you can then see for yourself how bad the injuries were to KEY players

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Sorry typing too fast should have been 32 player they used for the campaign.
And if i am not mistaken i think Everton used 22 players but i might be wrong on that.
I include all cup comp. and all .

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

He lost Pongolle to a ligament injury.

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and they still couldnt come 4th :p

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Originally Posted by ciaran76

Sorry typing too fast should have been 32 player they used for the campaign.
And if i am not mistaken i think Everton used 22 players but i might be wrong on that.
I include all cup comp. and all .

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So it's 32 now! If you go through that list of 32, if it's even that, and list out the injured players and how long they were absent, I think you'll find the squad numbers diminishing quite considerably ;) You saw what happened to Chelsea without Robben and Duff, to United without Van Nistelrooy, the same has happened Liverpool, except ten times worse as all their key players have been out for long periods this season.

oh yeah, Arsenal 7 - 0 Everton :p Now Liverpool would never, ever lose a game 7-0, not in a million years.......how embarrassing

Arsenal 7-0 Pub-erton

Welcome to the big league, toffees!! :D

That's just a taste of what's in store for you next season, should you come up against a full strength Real/Milan/Barcelona/Juventus!! Hopefully, the CL won't need to witness such an embarrassment. ;) ;)

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Originally Posted by mypost

Arsenal 7-0 Pub-erton

Welcome to the big league, toffees!! :D

That's just a taste of what's in store for you next season, should you come up against a full strength Real/Milan/Barcelona/Juventus!! Hopefully, the CL won't need to witness such an embarrassment. ;) ;)

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can u imagine being beat to 4th place by a team that lost 7-0 :p :p

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Originally Posted by thecorner

can u imagine being beat to 4th place by a team that lost 7-0 :p :p

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Very Troll corner, very troll.

what an embarresing ass kicking the arse were fantastic , everton were not interested they may as well have put out the womens team they would have done a better job .

but who cares we will have a minus goal difference once we let bolton win on sat :p but we are still 4th best in the league

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Originally Posted by razor

Very Troll corner, very troll.

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as i stated previously.......i just love to see liverpools fans getting very upset

There was fighting at Highbury Tuesday night. Apparently Everton were kicking off every ten minutes.

:p

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Originally Posted by Aldini98

Fair play to Everton in making the Champions League, lets hope they finish 3rd in their group so at least they'll get a round of the UEFA cup in. :D

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Or you mean Everton getting Dynamo Kiev in the qualifiers and losing to them...Still guaranteed UEFA Cup football!! :D

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Originally Posted by mypost

Arsenal 7-0 Pub-erton

Welcome to the big league, toffees!! :D

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Everton are finally shown up for what they really are. A load of codswallop!! :D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Thunderblaster

Everton are finally shown up for what they really are. A load of codswallop!!

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and still came 4th :D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by anto1208

but who cares we will have a minus goal difference once we let bolton win on sat :p but we are still 4th best in the league

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Stats this season:

Everton - Liverpool
43 Goals 50
1.19 Avr. goals/game 1.35
340 Shots 434
40% Shots on target 41%
72% Pass completion 77%
53 Yellow cards 43
4 Red cards 2

And they still say they're the best team in Liverpool. :rolleyes:

We're in the ECF. Does that make us one of the best 2 sides in Europe?

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Originally Posted by mypost

Stats this season:

Everton - Liverpool
43 Goals 50
1.19 Avr. goals/game 1.35
340 Shots 434
40% Shots on target 41%
72% Pass completion 77%
53 Yellow cards 43
4 Red cards 2

And they still say they're the best team in Liverpool. :rolleyes:

We're in the ECF. Does that make us one of the best 2 sides in Europe?

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the stats that count this season:
4 Everton 37 18 7 12 43 43 61
5 Liverpool 37 16 7 14 50 40 55
:D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by mypost

Stats this season:

Everton - Liverpool
43 Goals 50
1.19 Avr. goals/game 1.35
340 Shots 434
40% Shots on target 41%
72% Pass completion 77%
53 Yellow cards 43
4 Red cards 2

And they still say they're the best team in Liverpool. :rolleyes:

We're in the ECF. Does that make us one of the best 2 sides in Europe?

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"facts !!! you can use facts to prove anything even remotely true !!" :D

Recent work commitments have deprived me precious time on my beloved foot.ie. I have missed so much and I feel slighly lost at the moment.

It's nice to see my Merseyside thread is going stronger than ever and long may it continue! There's no doubting the present small minority of Evertonians have come up trumps over their red counterparts with flying colours :D ! This gives me great satisfaction especially after having listened to 4tothefloor and his pitiful mates condemning Everton FC and everything I have said on this thread from the word go. Both Everton, David Moyes and I have the last laugh! :D Hard luck lads, at least there'll be Champions League football in Liverpool next season even if its to be on the blue side. It has been a rollercoaster of a season for Moyes's men to say the least. To come from 17th to 4th in one season is nothing short of a miracle. This however is only the beginning of the transformation. The blue tidal wave is set to keep turning. Just look at what the Moyessiah has done with such a small and limited squad while working on a shoe string. A few quality signings in the Summer and another successful campaign is sure to follow. While I have great admiration for Jose Mourinho both as a man and a manager, David Moyes's achievements at Everton surely outweigh those of the portuguesse.

While many will disagree with a lot of what I've have said, there is one thing we're all sure to agree on- it has been a marvellous year on Merseyside for both clubs. Rafa has done magnificent in guiding his troops to the CL final. His previous experiences in Europe have proved pivotal to their success.

What a year! :p

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Originally Posted by Dillo

Recent work commitments have deprived me precious time on my beloved foot.ie. I have missed so much and I feel slighly lost at the moment.

It's nice to see my Merseyside thread is going stronger than ever and long may it continue! There's no doubting the present small minority of Evertonians have come up trumps over their red counterparts with flying colours :D ! This gives me great satisfaction especially after having listened to 4tothefloor and his pitiful mates condemning Everton FC and everything I have said on this thread from the word go. Both Everton, David Moyes and I have the last laugh! :D Hard luck lads, at least there'll be Champions League football in Liverpool next season even if its to be on the blue side. It has been a rollercoaster of a season for Moyes's men to say the least. To come from 17th to 4th in one season is nothing short of a miracle. This however is only the beginning of the transformation. The blue tidal wave is set to keep turning. Just look at what the Moyessiah has done with such a small and limited squad while working on a shoe string. A few quality signings in the Summer and another successful campaign is sure to follow. While I have great admiration for Jose Mourinho both as a man and a manager, David Moyes's achievements at Everton surely outweigh those of the portuguesse.

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Dillo crawls out of the woodwork to gloat, 'work committments', yeah right! Who cares about 4th place when you have a chance of winning the biggest club prize in world football. Not going to Istanbul myself, but just booked my flights and accomodation to Liverpool for the Tuesday to the Thursday. Party Central when we win ;)

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Who cares about 4th place when you have a chance of winning the biggest club prize in world football. Not going to Istanbul myself, but just booked my flights and accomodation to Liverpool for the Tuesday to the Thursday. Party Central when we win ;)

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Yeah, but Everton will have a better chance next season than the Pool will!!

Fair play to Everton, they have really faltered over the line but deserve 4th spot. Of the 54 league points on offer since Christmas Everton have amassed 21, thats 6 wins in 18. but the fact is they had done enough.
Interesting to hear Gerrards reaction when asked about Moyes comment about Everton being the best team on Merseyside. He more or less said that in years to come you can't show your grandchildren 4th place, its about medals and LFC are in with a shout of the biggest club medal in the world.

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Originally Posted by mypost

We're in the ECF. Does that make us one of the best 2 sides in Europe?

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as much as porto and monaco were the season before

[QUOTE=4tothefloor] Who cares about 4th place QUOTE]


you do ! :D other wise you would nt have spent the last few months telling us how liverpool where going to catch everton and get 4th .

[QUOTE=razor]Fair play to Everton, they have really faltered over the line but deserve 4th spot. Of the 54 league points on offer since Christmas Everton have amassed 21, thats 6 wins in 18. but the fact is they had done enough.
Interesting to hear Gerrards reaction when asked about Moyes comment about Everton being the best team on Merseyside. He more or less said that in years to come you can't show your grandchildren 4th place, its about medals and LFC are in with a shout of the biggest club medal in the world.[/QUOTE=razor]

Everton have got 4th spot on merit in the league as Liverpool's performance have floundered following european nights. Thats the excuse out of the way, but what Gerrard said best sums up what has been a great season for both Merseyside clubs. Everton will have very little to show anybody next season if they don't repeat the feat or achieve some silverware. Liverpool will be remembered as european champions with all the glory and knock-on effects that attaches itself to that accolade. The team photographs in the summer will look distinctly different also, with a few footballs at the front of a bunch of over-achievers and a european trophy propped proudly in front of a host of european champions :)

Congratulations to Moyes btw for his award, but its unlikely that it will be at the forefront of the new team photo either :D

We haven't won anything yet lads, although I do agree that even a European Cup Final appearance is a better achievement than finishing 4th.

Liverpool will be remembered as european champions with all the glory and knock-on effects that attaches itself to that accolade. The team photographs in the summer will look distinctly different also, with a few footballs at the front of a bunch of over-achievers and a european trophy propped proudly in front of a host of european champions :)

:D[/QUOTE]

AC Milan will be European Champions.
A recent interview from Ancelotti has banished any doubts that were in my mind. The shrewd Italian will have his homework done on the Merseyside dogs. Interestingly, he said that the most important thing is not to conceed to Liverpool. If Liverpool do manage an early goal, they will sit back as they always do and defend for their lives, just as they done against Chelsea and others. I can see the final being a dogged, negative affair. Milan will play a cautious game but their quality will surely prove too much for the scousers and the cream will rise to the top. This however has not been the story of the CL so far and anything can happen over the 90 minutes plus. My money is still on Milan! :p

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Originally Posted by Dillo

If Liverpool do manage an early goal, they will sit back as they always do and defend for their lives, just as they done against Chelsea and others.

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Tell me when sitting back on a lead was outlawed? Like Milan would never do that either, oh no! Everyone thought the same when we played Alaves in the UEFA Cup Final, and the game finished 5-4!! :eek: :D

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Originally Posted by Dillo

AC Milan will be European Champions. Their quality will surely prove too much for the scousers.

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That's what Coruna, Olympiakos, Leverkusen, Juventus, and Chelsea thought... But guess what, they'll watch the final like Everton fans on tv. :D

BTW, the postcard from Istanbul is in the post!!! :D :D

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Originally Posted by mypost

BTW, the postcard from Istanbul is in the post!!! :D :D

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:D

Wish you were here!

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Originally Posted by mypost

That's what Coruna, Olympiakos, Leverkusen, Juventus, and Chelsea thought... But guess what, they'll watch the final like Everton fans on tv.

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And next season, Liverpool fans can watch Olympiakos, Juventus, Chelsea and......EVERTON on TV, playing in the Champions League!!! :D :D

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Originally Posted by Kerry Blue

And next season, Liverpool fans can watch Olympiakos, Juventus, Chelsea and......EVERTON on TV, playing in the Champions League!!! :D :D

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We're all broke after this years run, so a year in front of the box and a chance to swell the coffers again for another fun-packed Euro adventure in 2006-2007 won't go a miss ;)

Don't flatter yourself into thinking we'll be watching you lot when there'll be a choice of Barcelona, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc,etc.....
Bridge-too-and-far come to mind for Moyes and Co. :o

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Originally Posted by JoeSemi

We're all broke after this years run, so a year in front of the box and a chance to swell the coffers again for another fun-packed Euro adventure in 2006-2007 won't go a miss ;)

Don't flatter yourself into thinking we'll be watching you lot when there'll be a choice of Barcelona, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc,etc.....
Bridge-too-and-far come to mind for Moyes and Co. :o

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Money is no obstacle to you JosSemi. You've gone on more trips in the past year than $Leon$ has had battered sausages- and my word he had manya sausage. Tomorrow will tell whether you've another euro adventure to look forward to next season. :p

Will there be 2, 3, 4, or 5 English teams in next year's CL?

Liverpool and Everton may fk up the qualifiers, which will leave 3 teams in England, because you know the red-and-blacks will qualify. :rolleyes:

Btw, I would like to know why Everton players were interviewed to give their opinions on Liverpool's CL entry. What's it got to do with them? :confused:

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Originally Posted by mypost

Will there be 2, 3, 4, or 5 English teams in next year's CL?

Liverpool and Everton may fk up the qualifiers, which will leave 3 teams in England, because you know the red-and-blacks will qualify. :rolleyes:

Btw, I would like to know why Everton players were interviewed to give their opinions on Liverpool's CL entry. What's it got to do with them? :confused:

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There could be 5 teams in it no prob.Everton and Liverpool could meet in the 3rd round qualifier.

Everton are now the best team in merseyside,didn't ya know that ,they wanted to know how they felt about 'little' liverpool(5 times european champs)getting in the CL. :rolleyes: :D

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Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

Duff did against Spain but didn't in the CL, Ronaldo didn't in either (still in A. Cole's pocket from euro 2004) and certainly not against Porto in the last 16, and Rooney goals against poor opposition in the group stages.

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Have to stick my oar in; Duff put in several hardworking performances in the CL, and although this is no indicator of world-class ability, his concentration and fitness levels were above average. He never played as many games in one season as he did last season, and so the price he paid for this fitness and endurance was that he lost a bit of flair, and was clearly jaded in the semi final against Liverpool. Yes, it probably sounds like making excuses, but it's a simple question; did Duff's performances over those two games in isolation show the entire extent of his talent; certainly not. Is Traore good enough a defender to keep Duff shackled for most of 190 minutes; in theory, surely not. So there are clearly other factors. Not least that Liverpool out-smarted Chelsea on a collective basis. But Duff showed glimpses, example being his goal against Barcelona. And he'll be back next season, in what will be only his second season in CL football. Have to say, I'll be looking forward to seeing Joaquin debut in the CL next season; can he make the step up?