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He was on standby anyway, wasn't he? So surely with O'Dowda & Brady major doubts, he should make the squad at least, unless SK is completely anal about needing like-for-like replacements. Obviously making the starting XI is a long-shot, though I'd be fine with him coming in for Hourihane also.
spot on. our midfield has been poor for a while now so I don't see it as a risk. Unless he makes a complete howler and gives away a goal I bet we wouldn't notice the slightest diss-improvement in our midfields performance. Instead there's a fair chance he could come up with a moment (it might only take 1 to win it) that none of our other options appear to be capable of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Forgetting the talk about step up step down, playing at a higher level. You just need to look at the midfield and defenders in the Slovak squad, they are not playing at Tier 1 leagues, not even Tier 2 in some instances. Jack would be at that level now anyway, he wouldnt have to step up down or in between.
You mention Aristotle, Stutts, but you have the perception of a philosopher with the above post. You clearly recognize the fact that our midfield has lacked creativity for a very long time - and you call for the inclusion of Jack Byrne. Fair play to you, you are spot on. As you say, you think this lad has something about him - so do most of us, but that old fear of taking a chance which pervades Irish football supporters, soon kicks in and we never take the chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result has us in the situation we are in today - ie being played off the park by the likes of Finland and Iceland.
And for me, the appointing of Stephen Kenny to the top job has paid dividends with his including Jack Byrne in the squad. Don't care if we lose to Slovakia (actually I do) but it shows me that Kenny has identified the problems in the Irish team (quicker than a myriad of his predecessors I would add) and is setting about fixing them.
Settle there 25 man squad he could be left out of the 22 yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
He left Oldham because they were going bust and were not paying peoples wages, (he gave an interview about this, they werent even cutting the grass at the training gound due to cuts. He was popular with fans down to his performances......went to Kilmarnock in the transfer window and couldn't get into a team that were having their best start to the SPL n years......
In his interview he said going to oldham was a mistake.
I think his next move will be abroad but he needs to go to a side that play football....
It's one thing to select Byrne. It's another thing to actually put him on the field in a meaningful situation. Will Kenny be willing to use Byrne from the start or in a meaningful situation off the bench? I really want Byrne to succeed but this is not an easy call, even for those shouting for his inclusion.
It would take tremendous courage to start a League of Ireland player above many Premier League and Championship players -- even bringing him off the bench ahead of them would set Kenny up for a public drubbing if it doesn't go well. Of course he'll be a genius with huge balls if it works out!
Are we happy enough to start Shane Duffy against Slovakia, or are the giants of football Ross County, Inverness and Hamilton too big of a step up for him?
Some of the nonsense you read on here would make you cry, or laugh...whatever.
Shane Duffy is a Premier League level footballer and has proven it. Jack Byrne got released by a League 1 club.
The nonsense being spouted here is that the lad can pop into an international level and be the creative spark when he's playing against part timers. If LOI translated, we'd have Seanie Maguire banging in goals up top for us.
He's a good player but expectations need to be low and I won't he sold until he performs at a high level and don't come at me with a few nice touches against Milan when Rovers barely had the ball the whole game.
And Richie Towell would be our midfield metronome.
I do find it odd when Premier League-class players like Hourihane and Hendrick are regularly rubbished and then you see the likes of Byrne being lauded to the extent he is, often by the very same people. Some fans need a slight reality check, it seems.
Is this a peculiarly Irish thing?
The fella that is not playing is always mighty because he is not making mistakes ! !
Sure I’m Mighty Myself ~ ~ Undroppable until ya picked me ! !
I'm somewhere in between. He has it all to prove but he's got something very different to our other options so it's worth seeing if he can make the step up. Agreed it's highly unlikely this will be in Slovakia but no harm to have a look in the NL anyway. I do think the accusation that SK has bowed to some sort of pressure by including him is nonsense and pretty insulting. Who's Byrne actually keeping out that's so much more deserving?
When is the last time we have had an international player who lives with his mum.... I jest.. but it's got to be 40 or 50 years since that happened
She lives with him...Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
So long as she is sound on football tactics , I don’t see any problem !Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Probably wouldn't hurt a few more of them to live with their mums. There's been studies that show that kids who live at home do better in college. Whether they figured out whether it's because they often have things like food and laundry handled for them, or because their parents pressure them to study, I don't recall. Plenty of lads coming back from England with their tails between their legs have stories of miserable life in digs.
Great Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
"Their laundry handled for them"
You weren't in my gaff as a young man
Byrne is 24 years old, he's not a 15 year old child living with an English family and 5 other team mates while studying at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Perhaps his Mum is getting more out of him Football Wise than all those Coaches in England !Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Perhaps the fact he is on about 400 quid a week doesn't help eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
His Mum may well be the Best Football Coach in Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
542 posts in a thread about someone who is a good LOI player, and then some people don't think it's fair to call it a "hype train".
The constant nonsense surrounding Byrne is all a bit crazy, to be honest.
542 posts in seven years is pretty tame really. And he wasn't a LOI player for the majority of them. Can't wait to laugh at you when he wins the Ballon d'Or.
Given (a) he wasn't an LoI player for much of that and (b) recent posts are about his mum rather than him, I think it's entirely reasonable to dismiss your claim of a "hype train"Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
This has been a 7 year campaign?!
Just start him against Slovakia, let him get found out (just like he was abroad), and then everyone can move on to fixating on Obafemi's exclusion.
If he's really as good as people on here think then surely someone in the Championship would be willing to take a punt on him. He's hardly going to cost an arm or a leg so its not a big gamble.
What I will say for him though is that he did look decent playing for Cambuur at a respectable level in Holland a few years ago but they were a terrible team and finished bottom that season.
He also looked good for Oldham but his issues there were less about football and more related to his professionalism.
To sum up I personally think he could do a job at the moment for a middling to poor Championship team and progress from there.
People seem to be working off the assumption he hasn't had offers from elsewhere.
Some of the posts have been a bit pathetic. My Shane Duffy remark was entirely tongue in cheek.
From part time players, to 400 quid a week, you'd swear some Irish 'football fans' would prefer to see our league as some sort of laughing stock, rather than proud to see a day where a player from it becomes a genuine contender for a spot in our national side.
Let's not get started on the lone Dundalk fan who seems to have some sort of personal problem with Byrne.
Comparing Seani Maguire...who really only had one good season at Cork. He failed at several LOI clubs too.
Richie Towell who did look excellent at Dundalk, but spent the best part of his first year at Brighton injured and played catch up at Rotherham, before taking the easy option at Salford.
People are keen to point out LOI failures but forget our national team captain also came from here, as did several other members of the squad.
Campaign?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
What are you on about?
Most of these threads start off when a young Irish player shows a bit of promise. That doesn't make it a "campaign" though
The problem with the Oirland best fans in the world (watch us sing to the baby) is that a lot of them are Premier league fans who cant see beyond the Premier league.
Everything else is crap.
They would have similar to varying degrees views about Spanish, Italian , French leagues etc.
Boo the English National Team but then tell you how much they love Man Utd / Liverpool etc.
Rant over :)
Nobody is pointing out that talent can't come from the LOI. Seamus Coleman was at Everton for 2 years playing and training at a high level before getting his first cap and even then he was younger than what Byrne is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Maguire had 1 good season in the LOI? No he didn't. He had 2 phenomenal seasons where at his best he was playing at a higher level than Byrne in my opinion. He scored 38 goals in 51 appearances. Where are these failed LOI stints? He smashed in goals at Waterford at 17, had a nothing loan spell at Sligo, didn't get a chance at Dundalk and left of his own accord before starring at City
Byrne has had what, 1.5 good seasons? They both had failed spells abroad too. How is that not a valid comparison for the relative jump in quality? You're literally twisting the truth to feed your own narrative.
You're making brash assumptions about people's views on the LOI. I love the LOI and was a season ticket holder before I moved away from home and catch as many games as I can nowadays. I've seen enough of it in person to know the pace and quality doesn't match up to the top leagues in England and international football. I've seen plenty of LOI superstars go abroad and be immediately lost in the shuffle. Sorry for the bare truth is that the LOI isn't a high standard at all and there's some very poor players in the league.
I need to be convinced Byrne can actually play at a higher level because every chance he's had so far abroad, he's been sent packing. He is very technically sound and I hope I'm 100% wrong on all this, but I can't see him contributing at a higher level. The game will pass him IMO.
Maybe he's had offers from elsewhere, but he's not going to go. He's found his comfort zone and he's happy to stay in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I'm not convinced he should be called up to the international squad, so I have a personal problem with him? Yeah...ok.
We've had to listen to this nonsense since the day he came to the LOI. He failed in England, he failed in Scotland, got relegated in Holland in what is a poor league overall in standard compared with the level we're talking about here.
He disappeared in the big LOI games v Dundalk and Bohs last year, and we still had to listen to mass hysteria calling for McCarthy to play him. Now Kenny says he's got into the squad on the back of performances against a Milan team having a kick about and Dundalk reserves. Kenny's bowed to pressure so that the Byrne Ireland campaign won't affect the build up to Slovakia, simple as that.
Players that have performed far better at LOI level (such as Towell, who you mention) have gone to the UK and disappeared off the radar.
Byrne must be delighted with all this attention when he's done very little in the LOI to warrant it. He's a good LOI player, that's it. Why would he come out of that comfort zone when, by past evidence, he'd get found out pretty quickly.
You then decide to bring Seamus Coleman into the conversation. That's just getting silly.
Milan have signed young striker, Petter Hauge, based on his impressive Europa League performance against them for FK Bodo/Glimpt.
I wonder when they'll be putting that bid in for Byrne?
Indeed I wonder why Shamrock haven't received, presumably, any significant offer for the player? Hmm...
https://www.the42.ie/ac-milan-jens-p...19887-Oct2020/
There was good debate on Byrne and use of Matt Doherty on RTE on Tuesday, with Kenny Cunningham and Alan Cawley. Both agreed that Byrne has attributes that no other midfielder we have has - mainly those of a continental style playmaker. We've got lots of huff and puff footballers in midfield, some with more quality than others, but Byrne has different qualities. My own view - a simple value judgment that nobody is compelled to agree with - is that regardless of his UK club experience or there being no public gossip about transfers he is an extremely good player, and I don't think he is "just" a good LOI player. But that's not the point. The point is that he offers something different to anyone else in contention for the squad, and in my opinion has a way of playing that we'd benefit from.
Many of the LOI fans suffer from a large dose of bias that often borders on the ridiculous.
How many players who were playing in their mid 20s in the LOI turned out to be quality International players in recent years? For every Kevin Doyle, who turned out to be a good but unspectacular International player, there are 20 Daryl Horgans, Roy O'Donovans, Alan Bennetts, Karl Sheppards, Graham Burkes, Paddy Maddens and Jason Byrnes, all unable to make the grade at any decent level across the water.
Most League 1 teams would win the LOI if they competed in it and yet you don't hear the same guys asking for Anthony Scully or Sean Roughan to be included in the squad.
I actually agree with most of this tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I think Byrne being considered for the Ireland squad says as much about how weak we are as it does about Byrne's ability.
Still, Byrne has proven himself in European competitions in particular (and on his Ireland debut). As Stutts says too, he offers something a bit different (he could have mentioned set piece ability too, where we're very reliant on Brady), and I think he's worth the inclusion. I don't see him being pivotal, but then you could say that about most playerrs.
I think on the internet it's very easy to get hunched down into two polar opposite trenches (he's ****e/great), and in general the reality is out in no-man's-land somewhere, waiting for both sides to emerge towards with a white flag of balance.
Ya perhaps puts the rovers result in some light as well. Seems like LOI sides can play against Norwegian/Swedish teams, but Norwegian and Swedish teams can play against the next level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
You can continue saying Jack Byrne is playing against part-timers and it will continue not being true.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
He's certainly playing against a fair few part-timers though.
I agree so much with the last paragraph. There are a multitude of arguments for and against Jack. He was released by Oldham. He didn't make it at Kilmarnock, Blackburn or Wigan. He's playing against lesser level players. On the other hand, he's the best player in the league. He executes pieces of world class individual skill. He looked comfortable against AC Milan's players.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The nature of the Byrne debate is divisive and his career so meandering that people will find evidence to support whatever point they want to make or whatever opinion they have.
Personally, I agree that the truth lies in the middle. I think he has traits that could help us immensely based on our lack of penetration against Bulgaria and Finland. I acknowledge that playing him, however, would represent a gamble as there is minimal evidence that he could hold his own. That makes it a little more frustrating for me that he wasn't played against Finland or Bulgaria.