Estonia V Ireland - Friday, 11th November 2011 - Euro 2012 Play Off 1st Leg

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It doesn't surprise me that Duff isn't good at penalties. He's not a crisp ball striker, he tends to float balls in rather than drill them. He's a placer rather than a pacer, and given his one-on-one record I don't think he's that confident in front of goal.

Being the football geek that I am I actually watch players' ball striking abilities.

Robbie clearly has the knack.
Andrews is a good ball striker - but then so was Matt Holland.
So too is Walters.
I'd trust Whelan.
Dunne is a mean ball striker.
Given is a good ball striker, and mentally strong.
I'd say Fahey is a good penno taker.
Likewise Cox.

Who'd I be nervous about, as well as Duff?

Despite having taken pennos at club level I'd have concerns about McGeady & Doyle. Doyle has missed a few for Wolves and Reading. Ward strikes a ball well but I'm not sure about his mentality. He strikes me as one of those guys who'd call a coin toss wrong 8 times out of 10.

St. Ledger - I think he'd roll the sleeves up, run up confidently and then it's anyone's guess. Likewise Kelly.

I'm also a fan of full backs and pennos. Anyone remember Ray Stewart? Steve Finnan in Suwon. Irwin. Harte.

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Really and truely you can speculate on various players but you will never know until they are in that situation. Look back at all the champions league finals that have been decided in recent years, look at the names of people who missed, Trezegeut, Seedorf, Shevchenko, Pirlo, Ronaldo and Anelka. All players you would put your house on to score if it was a normal EPL game at Wolves but in intense pressure situations they buckled. As far as I'm concerned anyone could miss or any one could score for Ireland, who thought Dave O'Leary would put away a winner?

Just in general I think should it go to penalties, the reletively newly independent country on the verge of qualification for the first major tournament in front of a hostile Dublin crowd may not have the nerve to see themselves over the line.

Again, I expect the game to be resolved long before penalties.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Oh dear. Perhaps not then.

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Yep duff is best out on the wing, putting the ball in the back of the net is just not his strength.
It's a bit like a 'black ball complex' in snooker, the extra pressure seems to get to some people.

I have a question from 2009 that still hasn't been answered. If we do go to extra time after the 2nd Leg in Dublin, would away goals still count double in the extra time period (i.e. if we scored and then they scored they'd go through)? The obvious answer would be they do, but then obviously the away side has a somewhat unfair advantage.

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

I have a question from 2009 that still hasn't been answered. If we do go to extra time after the 2nd Leg in Dublin, would away goals still count double in the extra time period (i.e. if we scored and then they scored they'd go through)? The obvious answer would be they do, but then obviously the away side has a somewhat unfair advantage.

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yes they count.

its a definite advantage in my eyes, its supposed to even up the odds for having to play an extra half hour away from home

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

No I wasn't referring to anything regarding the handball incident,.

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I was referring to the All Blacks needing a compliant ref in order to win the game they were so afraid of not winning.

You wouldn't call McGeady a good striker of the ball, nor the type of player when placing the ball on the spot who exudes the confidence that would loosen the hands from your eyes, but he has poked home the pressure penalties time and time again. I'd take him anyday ahead of a player who hasn't converted one on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

I have a question from 2009 that still hasn't been answered. If we do go to extra time after the 2nd Leg in Dublin, would away goals still count double in the extra time period (i.e. if we scored and then they scored they'd go through)? The obvious answer would be they do, but then obviously the away side has a somewhat unfair advantage.

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They count as away goals. One of then very significant drawbacks of the rule, that, in my opinion. Maybe the fairest solution would be a replay at a neutral venue if the teams are still tied after 180 minutes.

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Originally Posted by geysir

You wouldn't call McGeady a good striker of the ball, nor the type of player when placing the ball on the spot who exudes the confidence that would loosen the hands from your eyes, but he has poked home the pressure penalties time and time again. I'd take him anyday ahead of a player who hasn't converted one on the pitch.

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Yes, except that he seems a different player for Ireland than he has for his clubs - more reserved, less confident. But as Toashtie says, it's all speculation.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Maybe the fairest solution would be a replay at a neutral venue if the teams are still tied after 180 minutes.

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Don't really have time for that in the international schedule in fairness. The way it is is probably the best option.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Don't really have time for that in the international schedule in fairness. The way it is is probably the best option.

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if its all square after 180 mins, they should just go straight to penos

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Originally Posted by the bear

if its all square after 180 mins, they should just go straight to penos

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Trap raised this issue in his press conference the day after the France away game. He suggested the exact same as yourself should be adopted rather than extra time in the second leg. Needless to say FIFA/UEFA did nothing.

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Originally Posted by the bear

if its all square after 180 mins, they should just go straight to penos

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Then again, I wouldn't like to be the Estonian that has to walk half the pitch to take a peno in front of the singing section in Landsdowne. The rule is perfectly just as it stands.

The view of Estonia's centre-back, Raio Piiroja...

http://examiner.ie/sport/soccer/esto...#ixzz1dFK5FciP

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He insisted: "Everyone here likes to compare this to the Northern Ireland match that we won in Belfast last month but that is not a good comparison. This Ireland will be totally different, even to the team that played here 10 years ago, because 10 years ago they were like a typically British team, playing a lot of long balls straight away.

"This is different. Now Ireland is pretty creative as well under Trapattoni. He is a great manager who has made a big difference. Ireland are playing much better football now, are more organised, have only conceded one goal in nine games and don’t play a straight game anymore. It will not be easy for us."

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Interesting... :p

Why on earth would our play-off against Estonia be compared to a game in Belfast where they happened to beat NI last month? :confused:

Whether or not we're "pretty creative" nowadays is one thing, but if Estonians assume we play at a standard as poorly as NI, they'll be in for a bit of a surprise.

Piiroja would certainly be correct if he was to say that we're a more organised outfit now than we have been in recent years, but we were also accomplished at the back in 2000-2001 when we beat Estonia 2-0 both at home and away. We only conceded 5 goals throughout the qualification campaign for the 2002 World Cup, or 6 if you include the play-off games against Iran. That was over a total of 12 games in which we also scored 23 goals. In fact, we conceded the least number of goals in our group that campaign. Portugal conceded two more than us whilst the Dutch conceded a total of 9. As a comparison, in our qualification group this time round, we conceded 7 goals over 10 games.

Anyway, how's the buzz building up for this at home? It's hard to gauge when I'm off the mainland. :)

Unreal that they would compare this in anyway similar to their game against a team of group minnows

The Ref for the 1st Leg seems to have some good experience

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Kassai

We've had hiom before!

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Anyway, how's the buzz building up for this at home? It's hard to gauge when I'm off the mainland. :)

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No idea i'm in limerick where no one understands anything but hurl'n and Munster, while in an art college where no one understands sport.

I'm excited thou!

Excellent article on the opinion of some Irish fans on Trapattoni's management: http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7299220/F365-Says

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Excellent article on the opinion of some Irish fans on Trapattoni's management: http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7299220/F365-Says

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Excellent? :) Did you write it yourself?

The things is, now we are in as good a position as most would have hoped or expected, going in to the playoffs as seeds, but we have to wait until the playoffs are over before we can say Trap has done a good or not job.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Toolik would I be right in saying the Estonian's would be mostly worried about Duff and McGeady? It was clear the Armenians were concerned about those two and in fact doubled up on them every time they had the ball.

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The coaching staff has been publicly very secretive about their strategy (they think they can win http://foot.ie/images/icons/icon12.png). Thus, nobody knows what they fear about Ireland or with what they try to surprise the opponent. As of me, I really don't know what to fear about this Irish team myself. You are well represented on your wings, no arguing about that. But I'm more concerned about the quality of execution - Ireland only needs 1-2 chances for a cracker, Estonia always needs to make 10 shots and effortless work for a goal and it still might not come because of a bad execution. One thing's for sure, Given will be tested properly. Trap seems to have relatively good karma as well. I know, it's not a reliable argument, but i'm intimidated about that.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Why on earth would our play-off against Estonia be compared to a game in Belfast where they happened to beat NI last month? :confused:

Whether or not we're "pretty creative" nowadays is one thing, but if Estonians assume we play at a standard as poorly as NI, they'll be in for a bit of a surprise.

Piiroja would certainly be correct if he was to say that we're a more organised outfit now than we have been in recent years, but we were also accomplished at the back in 2000-2001 when we beat Estonia 2-0 both at home and away. We only conceded 5 goals throughout the qualification campaign for the 2002 World Cup, or 6 if you include the play-off games against Iran. That was over a total of 12 games in which we also scored 23 goals. In fact, we conceded the least number of goals in our group that campaign. Portugal conceded two more than us whilst the Dutch conceded a total of 9. As a comparison, in our qualification group this time round, we conceded 7 goals over 10 games.

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Don't worry. Nobody over here, whose decisions or actions matter, expects Ireland to be as dissaranged as NI. And I think that Piiroja is just messing your minds with that "creativity under Trap" talk.

With all due respect to your current team, I think the 2002 team was better. They were unlucky not to reach quaterfinals of WC and who knows - they could've gone even further. Yet, football itself has changed - maybe the current team is as good as the one in 2002, but other teams have progressed. Stagnation? Just a thought - I'm an amateur in Irish football.

In defence of defenders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaj2vONg67I
Fairly lifts the spirits

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Originally Posted by punkrocket

In defence of defenders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaj2vONg67I
Fairly lifts the spirits

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Great link :-)

"I love Ireland" :ball::p

Everyone in the squad taking full part in this mornings training according to 11am RTE news. Flying out after lunch.

One of the Estonian players is quoted as saying,
"Everyone here likes to compare this to the Northern Ireland match that we won in Belfast last month but that is not a good comparison. This Ireland will be totally different, even to the team that played here 10 years ago, because 10 years ago they were like a typically British team, playing a lot of long balls straight away" .."This is different. Now Ireland is pretty creative as well under Trapattoni"

Perhaps we play more pretty creative long balls?

He's probably thinking of Iceland. One letter and ten years.

There is no excitement where I am, be that at home in the bog, at work in the city, or travelling on the train. Like acorn above, I'm buzzing, but not sure many others are. Irish people is stupid

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Originally Posted by geysir

The things is, now we are in as good a position as most would have hoped or expected, going in to the playoffs as seeds, but we have to wait until the playoffs are over before we can say Trap has done a good or not job.

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It seems like a contradiction doesn't it. Personally, I felt reaching the play-off's should have been the requisite achievement, and as the group wore on, that feeling never really changed. We should have won in Zilina, but didn't deserve anything in moscow, so it's swings and roundabouts.
The play-offs are a lottery, and it is only fair to judge them after the draw is made. Had we drawn Portugal or even Bosnia, or the misfortune of France again, then elimination at the play-off stage wouldn't necessarily mean non-renewal of contract.
Elimination to Estonia, in my mind, would have to mean a search for a new manager. There shouldn't be any other outcome.

I have secured the pass from the missus if we make it to the Euros, i am confident we will overcome Estonia. Any ideas as to where we will we based if we Qualify ? Or ideas around where to book a flight too, i am tempted to book a flight to Krakow or Warsaw now and try and make my way to wherever the Irish team is playing from there. There doesnt seem to be many flights from Ireland to the Ukraine so fingers crossed we avoid going there.

I have been to Poland before (Torun) and it was a mighty spot.

Are you related to George Hamilton?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Are you related to George Hamilton?

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Oh no danger here

Disasterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

That's a mortal sin of a post Billy, violating the unwritten cardinal code of this discussion board.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Elimination to Estonia, in my mind, would have to mean a search for a new manager.

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when the betting will be 4/1 david o leary, 6/1 paul jewell, 7/1 dave bassett, 9/1 neil warnock and a novelty bet of 200/1 dustin the turkey (we Irish are hilarious!). anyone of which would immediately result in us playing free flowing attractive football and pipping Germany to first place in the wc qualification group!!

back in the real world..... losing trap under any circumstances will result in a raft of retirements and 4th place in our next group.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

There is no excitement where I am, be that at home in the bog, at work in the city, or travelling on the train. Like acorn above, I'm buzzing, but not sure many others are. Irish people is stupid

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most Irish footie "fans" will become fans of the team for 180mins over the next week, complain they couldnt get a ticket, "settle" for watching the matches on telly, react in horror when the team they loved for two matches is knocked out in controversial circumstances and return to discussing the merits of wayne rooneys new central midfield position at utd by wed morning!

Duff is so due for a training injury. It's going to be tough holding my breath until Friday. Dont have that many brain cells as it is.

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Originally Posted by geysir

That's a mortal sin of a post Billy, violating the unwritten cardinal code of this discussion board.

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Just trying to be prepared and not be at the mercy of Michael O'Leary

Apologies to all concerned. If we dont beat Estonia we should hang our heads in shame in fairness. I fully expect an Irish victory, in both legs. Jon Walters to be the Irish hero (hopefully)

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

when the betting will be 4/1 david o leary, 6/1 paul jewell, 7/1 dave bassett, 9/1 neil warnock and a novelty bet of 200/1 dustin the turkey (we Irish are hilarious!). anyone of which would immediately result in us playing free flowing attractive football and pipping Germany to first place in the wc qualification group!!

back in the real world..... losing trap under any circumstances will result in a raft of retirements and 4th place in our next group.

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now there is a sobering post

Earrah no we'd come 3rd

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Originally Posted by Silly Billy G

I have secured the pass from the missus if we make it to the Euros, i am confident we will overcome Estonia. Any ideas as to where we will we based if we Qualify ? Or ideas around where to book a flight too, i am tempted to book a flight to Krakow or Warsaw now and try and make my way to wherever the Irish team is playing from there. There doesnt seem to be many flights from Ireland to the Ukraine so fingers crossed we avoid going there.

I have been to Poland before (Torun) and it was a mighty spot.

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Other than Poland (group A) and Ukraine (group D) who have already been designated their groups, no team will know where they'll be based until the groups are drawn on the 2nd of December.