This actually makes more sense than the recent proposals for the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemovie
Mind you so does this:
http://godhatesprotesters.files.word...d_my_balls.jpg
This actually makes more sense than the recent proposals for the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemovie
Mind you so does this:
http://godhatesprotesters.files.word...d_my_balls.jpg
Fantastic idea! Definitely the way forward, going forward!!Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemovie
Has any official decision been made on this yet, if not when id the decision due?
It's an interesting question, one a lot of us are awaiting the answers on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
There's a good debate going on in Scotland on how their league is going to move forward, very similar to points raised on this thread. It was proposed they'd move from a 12 division with a split to a 10 team division. Opposition is coming against that idea, clubs their want the strategy group to explore the possibility of a bigger league. The Kilmarnock chairman reckons "I think a 10-team league could work, but there are all sorts of permutations that could work better." He's thrown out a suggestion of them moving to a larger division where they only play home and away once and also bring in the play-offs as they have in Holland. "There's all manners of ways of getting the right number of fixtures and having arrangements with play-offs that make it attractive to TV companies and for commercial reasons." "There are pros and cons. I think everybody is aware that there have to be compromises and there isn't a perfect solution that is going to suit everybody.
"If it came to the crunch and we had to lose one Old Firm match at Rugby Park, that would be a price worth paying if we got the right model.
"There are a lot of issues surrounding any new structure and we need to talk about those on Monday and keep an open mind."
Interesting debate in Scotland, it's no surprise I'm interest in the discussions with all these formats and play-offs being discussed! :D The FAI could have done well to look at what's going on in Scotland and Wales as well with their move to the split format. The LoI clubs looking for the 16 team Premier seem to have had the right idea on how the league should move forward but time will tell I guess.
Meanwhile Scotland are discussing going exactly the opposite way with their structure.
http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Scot...SPL.6665475.jp
A 16 team Premier with play-offs will feature in their discussions. Someone in Scotland must have been checking out this forum!
That has been roundly dismissed. It's gonna be 2 divisions of 10 playing each other 4 times. With a split and a gold star for the seventh placed team in the "who has the prettiest jersey" competition.
Noone can say for sure it will be two divisions of 10. That's what the strategy group will be proposing but there will be a discussion with all their clubs and a vote. There is opposition to that move. What has been roundly dismissed has been the idea that the top 4 in their league would play-off for the league title, that would be ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
If there's a play-off for the league title, I'm giving up LOI football.
This thread has descended into such a prolonged discussion that they're talking about Scottish proposals now....I think the play-off referred to is the one that is being proposed in ScotlandQuote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
Yeah, that's right. I didn't mean to go off topic but just wanted to draw some comparisons with what is going on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufc2000
Well....don't.......................jeeeesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
why in gods name do we always look for comparisons something that works somewhere else or not is no indication that it would be the same here. every other country,league is unique .
And ours is even more unique than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
:o
It still can be a good indication, if appropriate comparisons are made. Saying Scotland often lose games to the weather due to winter football is an appropriate comparison. Saying England has the richest league in the world, so we should build an exact replica of St. James' Park in Limerick is a daft comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
Let Tom decide who wins, goes down, goes bust, goes into play-offs, who manages who, who gets to play where and who the biggest 'codder' in the league is.
This would technically make sense if we had the same climate as Scotland. But since most of Scotland sees snow at half a sniff of a temperature below 5 celsius this makes a big difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Making comparisons to other leagues just makes no sense. Its a completely different fanbase, climate and financial situation amongst other circumstances.
We survived healthily for many many years in a winter season.
Since the inception of the summer season the league has fast gone downhill. European success is complete load of ******** because simply there has been no success. Beating the odd eastern european pub team is no success. Getting hammered by any half decent team (ALA TNS) most definitely is no success.
The closest thing we have seen to success is Shels close run of Deportivo, and that was a good while back now, 2004 if i'm correct?
I'd go back to winter football in a heartbeat.
I'm glad I don't see you around here often when you come out with tripe like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Have you heard what happened to Shelbourne since those glorious matches against Deportivo?
Next time you wish to call what I say tripe, at least back it up with point. I didn't say Shels was a success story, I said it was the closest thing to success we had in europe. Why if we're so high and mighty in europe all of a sudden, has not even one club in 8 years of this almighty summer football qualified for a major european tournament? If anything in the last 2/3 years we have been going backwards. There is plenty of evidence to suggest this.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.T.F.C.
I only had to mention Shelbourne to validate my point. It wasn't success. That whole campaign was built on something fake, something that wasn't there. They banked on projected success and they didn't get it. Sure it would have been great if they had gotten through, and their financial fairyness would have not come to light when it did, and Shelbourne might be still in the Premier League. People thought that this was it for Irish football, and look at them now.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Nigel why is that a good enough reason for going back to winter football?We have what we have so unless there is a serious compelling reason to go back to a winter season then we shouldn't even contemplate it. Just because we haven't had success in Europe doesn't mean we should revert to a winter season.
There are other things in the LOI that need to be sorted rather than when the season occurs.
It's hardly wildly different. At least, not enough to make any comparison completely invalid. Looking at how people in other countries have made their leagues work, and weighing up ideas on how well they would serve us, given the specific circumstances is a good idea. Having lived in Scotland for 12 months, I can tell you that very little about the place is "completely different" to their neighbours just a few hundred kilometres away.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
How much European success was there before the switch to summer football? You can't use this as a reason! And the primary problem; the league's financial woes, has nothing to do with the mean matchday temperature, and everything to do with the completely unlinked unsustainable spending policies of the league clubs.Quote:
We survived healthily for many many years in a winter season.
Since the inception of the summer season the league has fast gone downhill. European success is complete load of ******** because simply there has been no success. Beating the odd eastern european pub team is no success. Getting hammered by any half decent team (ALA TNS) most definitely is no success.
The closest thing we have seen to success is Shels close run of Deportivo, and that was a good while back now, 2004 if i'm correct?
You are having a very angry Christmas there Peadar.
Yeah, all those steroids Santa brought me are kicking in!Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
we have progressed stop putting this into question
definition from the oxford dictionary of progress
progress(pro|gress)
noun
Pronunciation:/ˈprəʊgrɛs/
[mass noun]
- 1 forward or onward movement towards a destination:the darkness did not stop my progressthey failed to make any progress up the estuary
- [count noun] archaic a state journey or official tour, especially by royalty.
- 2 development towards an improved or more advanced condition:we are making progress towards equal rights
uefa country coefficient for the last 16 years going back though summer soccer change (the 8 years since and the 8 years preceding 1/1.375/2.5/1/2.83/1.83/1.3/0.33 CHANGEOVER 0.166/0.66/1.66/0.33/0.5/0.166/0.33/0.33...average of last eight years 1.52 average of eigth years leading up to change-over 0.60 HERE THE FIRST NUMBER IS BIGGER THAN THE SECOND SO THE LEAGUE HAS GOT BETTER SINCE THE CHANGE (beacuse of the change? maybe not but it is better)
another way of showing this is the country ranking.Here are the last 16 years leading up to today's 29th position 35th,37th,43rd,44th,41st,41st,38th,37th,39th,40th, 38th,40th,35th,35th,30th,29th today
we have not reached the promised land of group stages, sky matches or long haired tanned footballers in magazines but ON FOOTBALLING TERMS we are better than before. to deny the fact that we have made progress is totally insane. yes we all bragged about the gretna hammering and shels when they were doing well and of course we all cringed when dundalk crept past a pub team but all teams and leagues in the world have bad days at the office.
for me there were 3 major resaons for the change in ''fortunes''. the CELTIC TIGER/ PROFESSIONAL TEAMS/ SUMMER SOCCER
NUMBER ONE : is gone and certanly caused a lot of mismanagement among chairmen, ''we are irish this boom will never stop, we are a different kind of people who are totally immune to basis economic logic'' and all that sh1te.........
NUMBER TWO : is a knock-on effect from the first and third reason, but I do feel that it is possible (even in the present climate) BEING PROFESSIONAL MEANS THAT IT IS YOUR PRIMARY / SOLE SOURCE OF INCOME. nothing stipulates that you have to earn millions and be on the cover of magazines and wear fake tan!!!! what is wrong with earning 250 quid a week, not paying a rent and playing football in front of 2000 a week........christ I'd do it!!!!
NUMBER THREE : this was a very good decision in my opinion. results have improved and even if we go back to part-time teams the fact that we are fitter going into games in July/August means we can win more than before!!!!!
Try not to Benoit.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
I see there are no dates for promotion / relegation playoffs in the fixture list. Also, with the cup final one week after the season ends (rather than two), they wouldn't have much room to squeeze them in there. Therefore you can only assume they'll be going with three up and one down next year to get us to a 12 team Premier.
You are, pray not, applying logic to the evidence as presented by the FAI?
Looks like we are finishing 4th.
think there will be no relegation or playoff so only two upQuote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
You talk about evidence and facts then miss the most obvious one - Frenchman got to it before me - Irish clubs have progressed in Europe - I remember when we were in the 40's with Malta and Norn Iron for company, and clubs were doing well to get a win the preliminary round. Small progress granted but al least Irish teams expect to get by the first round they encounter and maybe even a little further. That's progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
so because we had no great success in europe we should return to winter football ?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I dont believe or care about the european v summer fooball , I just think summer is better and still have found not one reason for a return.
the only real argument for or against is attendance and im not convinced it impacts greatly either way.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...em/9334707.stm
SPL supporters seem to back a larger league of about 16 or 18, a winter break and play-offs. Be interesting to see if they get listened to. It's a pity LoI supporters were not given a platform to voice their opinions on the direction the league should take.
A point frenchman made very clearly is something I've been asking people around the league. What is the definition of a professional? If the definition is a person who is full time training and preparing for games, then it would be more than possible to have 4-5 full time clubs in the league with most clubs (in the Premier at least) have 5-6 full timers. So then it knocks into - what is a living wage? If the gross is 2,500 a month for 12 months, you're looking at an outlay of 30,000euros pa. Kick in bonuses etc and it's a fairly decent wage for players who are genuinely into playing football full time. The crux comes when players are unable to survive on this amount and have to pick up extra work on the side, which damages the whole idea and process of going professional. So how does it work? A club I worked with had players (this was rugby) on part-time contracts but with training and recovery schedules that fitted in with work and also with work that fitted the schedules, not completely, but enough. It was possible to have a core of 4 pros full time, 8 part-time and 18 amateurs, which brought a small club on in leaps and bounds. In football I've seen it done likewise and the whole thing boils down to good management and direction. Recovery is vital in every way. However clubs will begin outbidding each others for players, and as now, will offer money on contract and a wedge under the table (as one prominent club is wont to do). This kills the system and can never be fully regulated, not until a player gets the hump or a major club official hands over the books. Which will be never.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
So much sense in just one post!
And so much could be achieved if the FAI had the balls to bring in a proper, rigid system and enforce it properly.
I'd have to agree. Changing the season from summer to winter doesn't look like have much difference either way in terms of attendances. Moving to a larger Premier would've been a bit more of a radical step.Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
And wouldn't affect crowds either. For all the bleating that some fans do about playing Rovers/Bohs etc all the time they still get better crowds to thosse games than they do to Bray/UCD etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
This goes rounds in circles. Plenty of arguuments for both sides but it boils down to some prefering to watch football in summer (like passerby above) and some who prefer watching it in winter (I'd count myself among these).
The season, and make up of the league, doesn't really matter to most.
You might have a point in terms of attendance but what about the promotion of the league? The league itself has a low enough profile at the moment. Having the Premier in more areas of the country will be a help. Expanding the league to at least 16 will help with this. It's hard to gauge but when word got out on radio and in the papers of a possible expansion of 16, it seemed to have been well received. This was before the FAI released their statement that no decision had been made and stakeholders had to be spoken to etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
It seems the SPL will be going the opposite direction of the LoI. They'll be going from the 12 team Premier with a split to a 10 team Premier. The main reason is money. 90% of their fans don't want it. At least they seemed to have more of a public debate and clubs voiced their opinions. I haven't heard any manager or chairman in the LoI come out in public about the direction they will like the league to take.
Whats the point in promoting it if it isn't to get peopel to attend the games?Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Mainly because they will go in whatever direction they're told. When the former CEO of Pats is held up as the sensible voice of progress, begin to be afraid, be very afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Time of year doesn't make a major difference, the professionality and attitude of the clubs and the overseers of the game does. Clubs will sheepishly continue on regardless as they're unable to form a concensus for change, or progress.