Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

Some good news from the Eastern Front, Kerzhakov went on the bottle big time over the winter break (pictured in the Russian yellow papers) and is in dispute with Zenit after they didn't allow him a move in January - no mention of who was in for him though there were discussions. He caught fire at the end of the season and was knocking in goals against weaker sides, but his confidence was up when he played us, and nobody stuck a boot in him to settle him down. So if this continues then Russia effectively lose their main threat. Here's hoping. They've Iran tonight out in Dubai, so it'll be interesting to see how they line up.

Armenia beaten at home 1-2 by our old pals Georgia today. Macedonia have a rather exotic clash against the Cameroonians later.

A "fairly unexperimental" Russian side were beaten 1-0 by Iran this evening in Dubai, falling victim to a last-minute goal.

Match report here: http://www.goal.com/en/match/57314/i...-russia/report

An objective comment about the Armenia Georgia game from a fan

Vracu baxt (The luck of a Georgian) !!! Armenians played the football-the Geo's scored the goals...Goe's look like the greeks in Euro2004. They don't even play, they just defend, foul and defend again, till something wrong happens on the other end of the pitch.
Well Done Armenians ! Proud of you, really am. Armo's played well, though they need to defend better, ...and we really need a goalkeeper other than the one that played today...
Udacha kak u gruzina...Though it Was Armenians Who played The Football !!!

Slovakia losing 2-1 to Luxembourg with 5 minutes left

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Slovakia losing 2-1 to Luxembourg with 5 minutes left

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The mighty slovakians that we were so happy to get a point according to most of the posters on here.

Result, 2-1 to Luxembourg. Slovakia were 1-0 up too

Andorra lost 2-1 away to Moldova. Moldova got the winner on 90 minutes to complete a bad night for our group rivals.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

The mighty slovakians that we were so happy to get a point according to most of the posters on here.

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"so happy". "most". Really?

The same France team you've been so intent on rubbishing lately have just beaten Brazil. Are they brilliant again all of a sudden? Are Brazil now sh1t?

C'mon Paul, you're a grand lad and I love you dearly, but you need to get laid or something. You've been nothing but negativity and gloom lately.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

"so happy". "most". Really?

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ya, the more vocal ones and frequent(probably the better word) - got to last 16 world cup, beat russia etc etc not the fact they were missing key players and had lost to armenia 3 -1 and could have lost 6 -1, all thats old ground though so no point going on again - like you and tets etc.

I was disappointed with the Slovakia result. They were there for the taking in zilina as far as I was concerned.

Yes so was I, a long list of games that over the last few years we should have won, but particularly this one as there were so many factors in our favour.

Imagine heading into the home game against macedonia 2 points ahead of everyone else, knowing that if we win we could potentially be 5 points ahead. And mores the point the loss at home to russia not really mattering.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Yes so was I, a long list of games that over the last few years we should have won, but particularly this one as there were so many factors in our favour.

Imagine heading into the home game against macedonia 2 points ahead of everyone else, knowing that if we win we could potentially be 5 points ahead. And mores the point the loss at home to russia not really mattering.

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Well we'd still be level with Russia though.
At least we can be glad that the group is still wide open and every team has shown a few chinks that can be exploited.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Well we'd still be level with Russia though.
At least we can be glad that the group is still wide open and every team has shown a few chinks that can be exploited.

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ya sorry my mistake.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

C.mon Paul, you're a grand lad and I love you dearly, but you need to get laid or something.

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That sounds like an offer to me!

Russia highlights, the commentator is going mental at the bad defending - they have given the Iranians the freedom of their penalty area for the goal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJqOsB_AIX8

Luxembourg Slovakia was nearly called off apparently it got so foggy you could hardly see it on tv.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Yes so was I, a long list of games that over the last few years we should have won, but particularly this one as there were so many factors in our favour.

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What factors?

If we're losing the marbles over getting a vital point in Slovakia, the Slovaks and Russians must be starting riots over the games they got no points at all in. There are 10 games in the group, there will be points dropped. Nobody is going to get 30 points, never mind us.

If you want a game we should have won, it was the game in 2007, when Staunton decided to get us to hang around the corner flag with 10 minutes to go instead of try to win 3-1, and we ended up drawing 2-2 in the last minute. Now that was definitely 2 points thrown away.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Russia highlights, the commentator is going mental at the bad defending - they have given the Iranians the freedom of their penalty area for the goal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJqOsB_AIX8

Luxembourg Slovakia was nearly called off apparently it got so foggy you could hardly see it on tv.

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Russia should have been home and dry before half time, lots of chances but the boys had been on the razz. It's in the media here today. Arshavin was good in fits and starts but didn't seem to care. Iran looked awful and struggled to get forward, they took their one good chance (out of 3) and it was so late it was shocking. The Russian defence, when pressured, were weak as always. I don't think the coach is capable of admitting defeat or bringing in better players, better for Ireland. But overall it was a bunch of players in pre-season mode on a jolly up and they played that way.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Luxembourg Slovakia was nearly called off apparently it got so foggy you could hardly see it on tv.

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Definitely should have been called off. Was impossible trying to watch it.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Yes so was I

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I was disappointed too, very much so. My point was that the performance was OK though and was good enough to win the game. I've seen plenty of teams play worse and win. NI in Slovenia for example.

I spose stutts, it just gets frustrating time and time again the attitude of build up to the game, seriouslly there is a serious trend/pattern* of around a 7 day period before and after a qualifier. The usual is positive from the start thinking this is our real chance etc etc. Then we seem to be disappointed but happy enough(halfway through the trend) with a point, and then the final day is a summarisation or conclusion and going forward where we see ourselves. This just gets very frustrating as its the same old crap when it shouldn't be. On another post you and a couple of others mentioned that football stats are a misnomer/anomaly and don't really relate to fairly to individuals or even teams, and I agree somewhat with this point. BUt at the same time then you cant go back and use stats on a run of results for a team 2 years in the past. At the end of the day as I say(oleary) if we are capable of beating a team, we should be doing it, accepting anything less should not be acceptable.

We're 24 years without a "proper" away win. That's one stat I do completely believe in. Israel and Slovakia were among the most frustrating in that regard. The Slovakia result was really disappointing, especially with the chances we had, but the performance wasn't. It happens, it just happens to us too much.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I spose stutts, it just gets frustrating time and time again the attitude of build up to the game, seriouslly there is a serious trend/pattern* of around a 7 day period before and after a qualifier. The usual is positive from the start thinking this is our real chance etc etc. Then we seem to be disappointed but happy enough(halfway through the trend) with a point, and then the final day is a summarisation or conclusion and going forward where we see ourselves. This just gets very frustrating as its the same old crap when it shouldn't be.

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I think this can be explained by virtue of the fact that most of us who post are devoted fans of the team.

Therefore, when we get disappointing performances and/or results there can be a certain lack of clinical detachment in how we initially view and feel about the game.

As threads develop an element of consensus usually begins to emerge - except any involving our friends from NI.

Slovakia were poor enough against us, I was surprised at how disorganised they were.
Maybe that was down to us, but I have my doubts.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Slovakia were poor enough against us, I was surprised at how disorganised they were.
Maybe that was down to us, but I have my doubts.

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They were a mixed bag at the World Cup too. Wouldn't know what to expect from them in Dublin.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Kingdom, I think you gain some morsels of pleasure when you can factually correct something Mypost has written.

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Nah, I just get nervous waiting for someone to pull me up for making messing up!

Giles on Newstalk suggesting Coleman should start on the right side of midfield and is a better player than Lawerence, McGeady or Hunt. Duff should be playing upfront alongside the center forward with McGeady playing outside left.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Giles on Newstalk suggesting Coleman should start on the right side of midfield and is a better player than Lawerence, McGeady or Hunt. Duff should be playing upfront alongside the center forward with McGeady playing outside left.

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Urgh. Have no desire to go back to 2005.

Agreed. I think he may well be right on Coleman, though as Geysir points out, how referees let him away with some fouls in the box is quite a skill. But no way should Duffer play upfront. I think one of the reasons we actually passed the ball OK on Tuesday is because Duffer was always making himself available. I've noticed this in other games too, very notably in Bulgaria last time out.

Giles was more positive about Coleman than Clark which is fair enough
Thing is, we are more desperate for a full back than a RM.
i'd say Clark's performance had more impact, pound for pound, on our team.

With Clark, Coleman, hopefully McCarthy, Mayler coming through and the resurgent Long we could have a fairly dangerous side at 2012 if we do qualify.

My team vs Macedonia

-----------------Given----------------

O'Shea------Dunne----Sledger------Clark

McGeady----Whelan---Fahey------Duff

-------------Long Doyle---------

Westwood, Foley, McCarthy, Coleman, Gibson, Stokes/Keogh, Walters
(No need for a centre half given there's 4 of them at the back)

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

My team vs Macedonia

-----------------Given----------------

O'Shea------Dunne----Sledger------Clark

McGeady----Whelan---Fahey------Duff

-------------Long Doyle---------

Westwood, Foley, McCarthy, Coleman, Gibson, Stokes/Keogh, Walters
(No need for a centre half given there's 4 of them at the back)

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That's a decent looking line-up. I suspect though, if Keane's missing, Trap might take a punt on physicality up front, opening the door to Walters or Best. If one of them (probably Best) was to score a lock of Prem goals, that might seal it.

Keane won't be out that long will be?

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

My team vs Macedonia

-----------------Given----------------

O'Shea------Dunne----Sledger------Clark

McGeady----Whelan---Fahey------Duff

-------------Long Doyle---------

Westwood, Foley, McCarthy, Coleman, Gibson, Stokes/Keogh, Walters
(No need for a centre half given there's 4 of them at the back)

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Pretty close if not exactly the team and bench come Macedonia injuries permitting.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

My team vs Macedonia

-----------------Given----------------

O'Shea------Dunne----Sledger------Clark

McGeady----Whelan---Fahey------Duff

-------------Long Doyle---------

Westwood, Foley, McCarthy, Coleman, Gibson, Stokes/Keogh, Walters
(No need for a centre half given there's 4 of them at the back)

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I'd go along with that. Throw Coleman at them in the later stages. McCarthy on in injury time ;)

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Keane won't be out that long will be?

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6 weeks apparently.

These next 3 months and a bit are crucial. They probably are the most important 14 weeks in the international career of most of the squad.
The Macedonia game obviously is must-winnable. The following 3 friendlies take on a life of their own then though, as it will give the younger guys a chance to put their own stamp on the squad.
Is it too far fetched to think that come the trip to Skopje, that the likes of Clark, Coleman, McCarthy, Stokes, Long, Foley, Wilson, and with luck the recovered Meyler, Cunningham and maybe even O'Halloran will have shown that they deserve to be hanging around the household names of the squad? It's thinking of possibilities such as this that keeps me optimistic for the future.

It does underline just how important it is that the next few months are utilised correctly. Returning from Skopje with the full compliment from the two fixtures allows the team to really push on in the big two qualifiers that follow in the autumn. If the new blood are given time in the aforementioned friendlies, it gets a rebuilding job done 9 months earlier, hopefully allowing an open minded selection in advance of Euro 2012.

A squad that up to yr end 2010 looked like:
Given, Westwood, Murphy, O'Shea, McShane, Dunne, St Ledger, Kilbane, Foley, O'Dea, Lawrence, Whelan, Andrews, Green, Fahey, Duff, Hunt, McGeady, Keane, Doyle, Folan

could in 6 months look like:

Given, Westwood, Murphy, O'Shea, Foley, Dunne, St Ledger, Clark, Cunningham, McGeady, Coleman, McCarthy, Meyler, Wilson, Gibson, Whelan, Duff, Fahey, Keane, Doyle, Long, Walters.

The dross gone from the squad, the age profile getting younger, and hopefully a bright future.

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Originally Posted by Sullivinho

6 weeks apparently.

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Bloody hell. I didn't hear that. Gutted because of the Macedonia game + I'm gonna have to take him out of PL fantasy football team! I'd only just brought him in.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

could in 6 months look like:

Given, Westwood, Murphy, O'Shea, Foley, Dunne, St Ledger, Clark, Cunningham, McGeady, Coleman, McCarthy, Meyler, Wilson, Gibson, Whelan, Duff, Fahey, Keane, Doyle, Long, Walters.

The dross gone from the squad, the age profile getting younger, and hopefully a bright future.

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Where did Lawrence go?