Petition to wind up Accolade (Shels)

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Originally Posted by Macy

They're still paying off the debts of the last time. I'm really not having a go at Harps at all, but they've played the overspend game too. Fair play for them getting their house in order, especially with pressure being put on by some of their managers in the press.

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I know your not having a go at Harps Macy but in fairness the difference between us and others at the minute is that we learned from our mistakes.

We came up in '95 and spent silly money on players to acheve a 4th place finish and a cup final defeat. We went back down in debt to the neck and rebuilt from scratch - with NO help from the FAI or eircom LEague to assist us in brokering deals with the tax man. We got our affairs in order, were the first club in the country to have a current tax clearance cert (several years ago when most clubs didn't know what a TCC was), have paid our tax & PRSI monthly and on time for years now, have cleared most of the back tax with the remainder being indefinately frozen pending our continued good behaviour, produce audited accounts within a month of the year end etc. (Won't go on or I'll start to sound like some Rovers fans, who having discovered the virtues of this kind of stuff very recently now think they invented it :D )

We came back up last year and unfortunately found that the Premier division had gotten ten times worse, that clubs were spending crazy budgets on wages and doing exactly what we did the last time only in multiples. We were on the wrong side of a very un-level playing field. But not many people would have listened if you'd made this case before this Shels affair has brought some of the reality to light.

The whole house of cards is ready to come tumbling down, and as you say some clubs seem to be getting the message and cutting budgets to suit their incomings (a bold departure for Irish football) however its a long way to go, and the dodgy dealings regarding tax and PRSI on players wages that have been widespread are what will really threaten the existance of some clubs when the taxman comes looking for his lost loot.

I really think that when this era of domestic football is being recalled in 10 or 20 years time we'll not be marvelling at the progress made by full time clubs, it will be recalled as the period where spending went crazy, financial responsability went out the window and several clubs went to the wall. Hopefully the latter will be averted but its a bleak outlook for many at the minute.

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

I want Shels to survive -- just.
The club is part and parcel of Irish football history, and any group of football devotees that has lasted so far in this GAA/EPL-saturated environment deserves a medal. We could debate at length Shels' and Ollie's services and disservices to football, but I don't think we'd get anywhere. Regardless of who it may be, the fact that a leading, top-flight club is so close to oblivion has to be of concern to anyone who loves Irish football. I'm sure the enemies of Irish football, like those who tried to get their hands on Tallaght, are delighted.
I actually find it hard to say that. As I mentioned before, sympathy doesn't come easy for those who used bogus financial muscle for squad-wrecking spending sprees so they could lord it over the rest. Losing Glen Crowe has cost BFC a lot. Taking him away from Bohs has cost Shels rather more.
Much as I want to them to survive, I certainly do not want them limping into Dalymount. Using Bohs to prop them up is, as the FAI now must have heard loud and clear from Bohs support, not an option.

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Excellent post.

I certainly hope Shels do survive.

Though hopefully they will continue without Ollie, who for all his love of the club is a embarresment to the league as a whole.

It's quite likely that Shels will make an arrangement with the Revenue either before or after April 3rd. It will probably involve making a lump sum payment and monthly payments to clear the rest over X years. PLUS keeping future payments up to date.

If the Revenue have their info right they'll have their eyes on Shels CL money (€200,000?)from the 05/06 season (isn't this only paid to clubs after the final) plus their Setanta Cup money (€40,000?).

No matter what the future doesn't look great for Shels with the Tolka lease sold and Bohs now likely to run a mile from ground sharing.

A points deduction is not definite though, unless their licence application was dodgy in some way. Owing money to the Revenue isn't grouns for points deduction, especially if you come to an agreement with them to pay.

While there may be CL and Setanta money etc coming to Shels its still a strange time of year to hit trouble. Season ticket money, sponsor money and lots of other stuff comes in at the very start of the season - hence most clubs only hit bother later in the season when all this is used and gates etc aren't covering the shortfall. I'm guessing that Shels problems came during the off-season when income is minimal, and it could well be that the cash flow has since then changed for the better due to the new season. However if Shels are continuing to spend way beyond their means it could be that surviving this winding up order (and they most probably will) might only be shunting the problem further down the line- plus Shels absolutely must keep their taxes up to date from now on as well as paying back the debts already accumulated. To me it seems there must be serious cutbacks at Shels sooner rather than later, unless they really plan to sell their main asset to cover current expenditure (they may be forced to I guess) but to make the decision without being forced would be one of the all time stupid decisions in Irish football history, and as we all know that's a pretty big statement.

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Originally Posted by paudie

It's quite likely that Shels will make an arrangement with the Revenue either before or after April 3rd. It will probably involve making a lump sum payment and monthly payments to clear the rest over X years. PLUS keeping future payments up to date.

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Problem is, that's what Shels have in place already, according to reports (21 monthly payments @ E12k each). The Revenue aren't going to keep making the same arrangement if it keeps getting broken. They're going to cut their losses, put the company into liquidation and hope to get some of their money at least.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Problem is, that's what Shels have in place already, according to reports (21 monthly payments @ E12k each). The Revenue aren't going to keep making the same arrangement if it keeps getting broken. They're going to cut their losses, put the company into liquidation and hope to get some of their money at least.

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I doubt it Pineapple, Shels problems are liquidity, not solvency. The Revenue will get all their money and don't need to cut their losses.

Well they cut their losses with Rovers.

For me I don't want Shels to go under. I would be very happy with a lot of pain for them though. I have no problem sounding bitter about this, but what has been said already regarding their dismantling of a successful Bohs side with money that they didn't really have - as proved here - was vindictive and spiteful. I would assume that the money Oily is gathering to pay the tax man presently is money that Shels need either from the sale of their lease and/or deferred wages (this is only specultation), but it has to come from somewhere. I seriously doubt that Oily has merely 'forgotten the dates' or whatever excuse he's used, but I have no doubt that Oily has more than enough schemes tucked inside is y-fronts to pull Shels out of this.

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what has been said already regarding their dismantling of a successful Bohs side with money that they didn't really have

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In fairness, I'm not sure Bohs really had the money to pay that team either!

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Originally Posted by Mr_T

I know your not having a go at Harps Macy but in fairness the difference between us and others at the minute is that we learned from our mistakes.

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And you know I've been vocal in support of that stance the whole time, and the same with Rovers new regime. I really hope that's the way we're heading in Longford too, not before time.

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Originally Posted by paudie

It's quite likely that Shels will make an arrangement with the Revenue either before or after April 3rd. It will probably involve making a lump sum payment and monthly payments to clear the rest over X years. PLUS keeping future payments up to date.

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But it's this arrangement that Shels appear to be defaulting on - if the timescale compared to the other Dublin clubs is to be believed?

Edit - didn't see Pineapple's response, basically the same point.

I think it's obvious how this is going to end. Shels will use whatever money they have from leaving Tolka to pay the Revenue and then the FAI will arrange for them to have a half share of Dalymount.

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Originally Posted by Galway Harps

In fairness, I'm not sure Bohs really had the money to pay that team either!

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Yes and to be fair to you, Bohs started down this very same road. It still doesn't take from the fact that players we had were offered renewals to their contracts which were accepted in some cases and then mysteriously rejected by Shels bound players.

Although we seem to be slightly more prudent when it comes to our expenditure nowadays, we have a had a big wake up call in the last two years and it's good to see a majority of the supporters accept the fact that we cannot hand out the ridiculous contracts now we had been handing out. This is not to say that I think we are getting value for the large amount of money we are currently spending on a squad that has brought us no points and no goals so far this season.

Where I am slightly smug with relation to Shels, it's because I hate Oily Byrne. He has always been the first one to throw a dig in when any other team was down. What goes around comes around and it's nice to see Oily squirm for a bit.

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Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

that Oily has more than enough schemes tucked inside is y-fronts to pull Shels out of this.

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holy ****...talk about putting a girl off her brekkie.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Problem is, that's what Shels have in place already, according to reports (21 monthly payments @ E12k each). The Revenue aren't going to keep making the same arrangement if it keeps getting broken. They're going to cut their losses, put the company into liquidation and hope to get some of their money at least.

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I Didn't know that Shels already had a monthly payment scheme already in place.

However if Ollie can convince them that the missed payment was a one off they will probably go into a new payment arrangment with him.

Probably with larger monthly payments and/or a big lump sum payment to start with.

As I said above the Revenue may like the look of the CL and setanta money due to Shels shortly.

The fact that Shels liquidity problems emerge at the same time as the FAI are pushing for the Dalymount groundshare is a huge coincidence, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Galway Harps

, unless they really plan to sell their main asset to cover current expenditure (they may be forced to I guess)

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And they don't own Tolka Park, do they? That'd mean that their main asset would be their staff then so.

Any latest from Drumcondra on this, or has Ollie told ye not to say anything?

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Originally Posted by paudie

The fact that Shels liquidity problems emerge at the same time as the FAI are pushing for the Dalymount groundshare is a huge coincidence, don't you think?

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This is a source of sheer embarrassment for the FAI. Delaney was pushing Shels into Dalyer as the stronger team on and off the pitch. Now after all the positive publicity afforded to Shels, it's blown up in Delaney's face as Ollie's business practices are exposed and the fraudulent nature of the Shels operation is finally uncovered.

The FAI did not plan it this way and now it becomes obvious to the world and his dog that Bohs do not need to be bailed out by Shels and the FAI mercifully stealing half our stadium.

BTW, watching eL Weekly last night and I'd have been amazed if there were even 1,000 of the mugs in Tolka for the Longford game. I suspect Shels' attendances last term were bumped slightly to legitimise the money they were spending by giving the impression of a higher income.

There main asset is their lease on Tolka Park. Depending on what story you read it is worth anything between €10m - €30m to them.

The statement they said was going to be released on Friday must be next Friday so. You'd think that a couple of days would be enough to make some story up though.

I have to say some shels fans view on this is amazing and the amount of times they have tried to change subjects and go off thread is priceless. (here re attndences and on shels wed going on about mario rosenstocks impression of Jose Mourihno).

Also some of them are deflecting away by bringing up our examinership.

To me its this simple. Shels/Ollie(he is shels AFAIK)/Accolade got the tax cleareance cert on the basis of an agreement with the revenue in relation to payment of taxes due from previoue periods. If he didnt get this TCC then Shels/Ollie/Accolade wouldnt have got the licence. Since now SHels/Ollie/Accolade are being taken to court by the revenue on a winding up order as they have renaged on this agreement then IMO the tax clearence cert should become invalid thus meaning a breach of licencing rules and a punishment should ensue.

in a way I hope shels get out of this mess from a footballing club viewpoint as my mams family were huge shels people down through the years but in saying that they shouldnt be allowed get off scott free.

No one has mentioned how shels players must be feeling. I know if my job werent paying my taxes id be worried

KOH

JUZ

Just a point regarding liocensing which is very pertinent to the Shels affair and Juz's post above.

FAI Licenses are being handled very differently this year, with clubs having to provide monthly returns of their income and expenditure (and even explain any major deviation from their original budget), progress on Infrastruture Development Plans and other information each month.

The monthly reviews and progress monitoring can result in fresh sanctions each month. Clubs may be fined for example if they have not carried out (by a deadline set down in the original license grant) infrastructure improvements on Category A items which they were told to do when the license was awarded. Ongoing failure to comply with conditions of the license such as fixing minor things in the ground, will result in further sanction.

Club licenses are effectively reviewed every month so if Shels lose their TCC indefinately they very definately would be subject to sanction under licensing.

I thought I heard somewhere there was a meeting of the First Instance Committee scheduled for last night (don't know if that's the name of the body?)

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BTW, watching eL Weekly last night and I'd have been amazed if there were even 1,000 of the mugs in Tolka for the Longford game. I suspect Shels' attendances last term were bumped slightly to legitimise the money they were spending by giving the impression of a higher income.

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Sorry about this but who or what figure was bumped up? and why does it matter in this thread!!

Who runs the thread on crowd numbers?
Go post there and you will see the figure quoted by shels fans have been always fair in my opinion

On the Longford game 1000 is well above what was there...
St Patricks night ?????? What were they thinking
500 would be closer!