Macedonia V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 4th June 2011 - Euro 2012 Qualifier

Bank holiday wkd, sun splitting the rocks and a massive Ireland game on. Doesnt get better than this. Nerves starting to really kick in now, its a long wait till half 8 tomorrow night. Pray to god we win. Very jealous of the lads heading over to Macedonia now, enjoy it and bring back the three points. Im liking the weather report of chance of storms there tomorrow, 17 degress tomorrow night will still be more than what our lads are normally used to.

Hope the same keeper from the home game starts, Edin Nuredinoski. If so plenty of long shots from whelan, andrews, hunt and mcgeady are the order of the day. Actually when you list our midfield like that, they may not be many things, but all four capable of a damn good strike.

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Originally Posted by Duggie

look this is how i see it, if long was there for the 2 weeks he would be starting. Hes just unfortunate he was delayed in England with the play-offs. Id prefer Long to start but im not to annoyed with the decision. I can see why trap has made it, hes had keane and cox working together for 2 weeks and he wants to persist with them for this game. He hasnt forgotten about long. i hope it work out for all our sake.

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Agreed but I think there is an element of this lad has just come into the squad and he looks like he is going to start a big game for us. As you said probably wouldnt happen if Long was around the full 2 weeks or if Doyle or Walters were fit. I probably wouldnt be all that impressed if I was Keogh but then again think most of us would pick Cox over Keogh.

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Originally Posted by Duggie

look this is how i see it, if long was there for the 2 weeks he would be starting. Hes just unfortunate he was delayed in England with the play-offs. Id prefer Long to start but im not to annoyed with the decision. I can see why trap has made it, hes had keane and cox working together for 2 weeks and he wants to persist with them for this game. He hasnt forgotten about long. i hope it work out for all our sake.

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Trap doesn't bother his backside going to games preferring instead to mull through "hours of DVD's" (ya right). He clearly doesn't know our players (evidenced further by Ian Harte last wk). So am I right in saying the best chance you have of getting on the team is to train ur ****** off for the wk leading up to it as this is the only exposure Trap will have to the player. What a load of ****. Poor Shane was trying to single handedly get his club into the prem legaue and cudnt join up later for obvious reasons and this is how he is rewarded. Cox may well do well on sat nite cause lets face it we're not playing Brazil but it is a huge unnessary gamble, bottom line Long should be starting period. And one more thing, people are trying to make the argument that Cox is stronger than Long and provides a better balance, that too is bo****. Long has turned into one of the most accomplished target men in the Championship this past year and will win 9/10 balls that are pumped in the air to him.

Trap is taking us for some ride and bigger the fools we are to go along with it. E2m a yr for this rubbish (oh apologies forgot about the paycut the martyr took last yr. . . ). The sooner his contract runs out the better for the future of Irish football

If that's his considered judgement from 50 years at the top in the game, so be it. Your judgement is based on....?

A surprise decision if that's what it is. Perhaps Long is deflated and out of sorts following Reading's defeat. We are not there to see.

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Originally Posted by tommy_c12000

Trap doesn't bother his backside going to games preferring instead to mull through "hours of DVD's" (ya right). He clearly doesn't know our players (evidenced further by Ian Harte last wk).

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It was fairly, in my view, pointed out by Trap that he can get just as much, if not more, from watching 10 players via DVD than attending a live match and possibly only seeing one player for ten minutes. Plus the guy has enough scouts and Tardelli who he trusts to get him extra info. I think the lazy Trap argument is a total fallacy to be honest. Besides at this stage he has capped loads of players - hardly fits in with a view of someone who just takes a look at someone in training.

I don't agree with the selection of Cox but I don't think it'll be crucial to the result. Moreover it likely is indicative of a change in approach - presumably Cox will lie slightly deeper, trouble the Macedonian DM's and link midfield and attack. He'll offer Andrews and Whelan a central attacking ball to feet, when they're likely to be outnumbered by Macedonians. By picking Kelly, Trap has already demonstrated he has specific players in mind for how to take on the Macedonians. How it'll pan out, I'm not sure, but I'm willing to see how it goes before making any real judgement.

Agree totally with SvD, and while I admire tommy_c's concern I can't believe he has selectively ignored Tardelli's quote from ages back about Harte. It was posted here and I'm sure he saw it.

The "they didn't know he was Irish" is straight out of The Indo's manual on how to undermine the team and its management. Harte was skinned alive twice by Swansea last weekend.

I'd pick Long myself but if picking Cox is a sign we're going to keep it on the deck rather than hoof it long, then that's OK by me.

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Originally Posted by tommy_c12000

I certainly don't think it's a hysterical over reaction. We have a player who is linked to several top flight clubs, made 47 appearances for Reading this season and has scored 23 league goals. He is in the form of his life at the moment and looked sharp and extremely fit throughout the playoffs. Furthermore he has international experience with 19 international caps. Temper all these factors with a guy who is a bit part player with West Brom, starting 8 times for them and scoring only one goal and more importantly has ZERO international experience. The basis for propelling him up the order ahead of Long is his showing against a 3rd choice NI team and a reserve Scottish defence. When you take all these things into consideration I think people's "hysterical over reaction" is vindicated. Cox is a reasonable option, he has impressed me with WB this season, but you cannot read too much into his performaces against what were reserve international teams. He may do a job against Macedonia but the bottom line at this juncture, it is absolutely folly to start him in front of Long this saturday. There is no argument about that

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You can't argue with the logic. And I agree with you but the point us is that the meejah and some in here have likened cox's potential inclusion as if trap had cast long out of the squad.

Sure has the squad even been officially announced?

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

If that's his considered judgement from 50 years at the top in the game, so be it. Your judgement is based on....?

A surprise decision if that's what it is. Perhaps Long is deflated and out of sorts following Reading's defeat. We are not there to see.

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My judgement is based on the facts as I see them:
1. Long: 47 championship starts - 23 goals. Has played exceptionally well in the 9 or 10 games that I've watched him in this season
2. Cox: 8 premiership starts (a mere 772mins of football this season) - 1 goal. From what I've seen of him this season he is a useful player but not in the same league as Long.
3. And the fact that I am 46 years Trap's junior which means I have far fewer senile plaques clouding my judgement. Trap's last trophy of note was 14 years ago (German title)

Cox's inclusion isn't that surprising to me, Keane and Long are similar type of players, and when Cox was announced as joining the squad I thought he was joining the list of backups to Doyle - Best, Walters, Folan - all of whom are unavailable, so he's starting in the target man role. If any or all of those players were in the squad, I doubt he would be starting.
Long is in the squad as backup to Robbie Keane, along with (again IMO) Stokes (if he were available) and possibly Noel Hunt.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Agree totally with SvD, and while I admire tommy_c's concern I can't believe he has selectively ignored Tardelli's quote from ages back about Harte. It was posted here and I'm sure he saw it.

The "they didn't know he was Irish" is straight out of The Indo's manual on how to undermine the team and its management. Harte was skinned alive twice by Swansea last weekend.

I'd pick Long myself but if picking Cox is a sign we're going to keep it on the deck rather than hoof it long, then that's OK by me.

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Apologies missed the Tardelli quote. Have been in hospital for last few days but back now with renewed vigour as you can see! Is there a link to it here? Scrolled through prevous pages there and cudnt find it

I think the Trap was pleased with how well Cox and Keane linked up in the previous two games and believes the partnership is a better one than Keane/Long. It's not that surprising to be honest. I mentioned that Cox could force his way into the starting 11 in the Ireland-Scotland preview topic and there is nothing wrong with picking players on form. Cox has played well in both internationals, is fresh and offers something different.

If the Trap picked Lawrence over McGeady then yeah that would be a major call and I'd expect the forum to be going crazy but Cox over Long isn't a huge issue and isn't going to cost us the game. I like Long as a player and when he replaces Robbie or Cox from the bench tomorrow he'll be dangerous.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Is there dodgy gk from the first game gonna start tomorrow? Andrews, Whelan, Hunt and McGeady need to shoot from 25 yards at every chance.

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That's Edin Nuridinoski. There's talk of him being dropped for Martin Bogatinov, although Bogatinov is very inexperienced at international level and doesn't appear to have been a regular with his club in Ukraine last season, from what I can make out anyway. Both are probably as much a liability as the other.

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Originally Posted by elroy

Bank holiday wkd, sun splitting the rocks and a massive Ireland game on. Doesnt get better than this. Nerves starting to really kick in now, its a long wait till half 8 tomorrow night. Pray to god we win. Very jealous of the lads heading over to Macedonia now, enjoy it and bring back the three points. Im liking the weather report of chance of storms there tomorrow, 17 degress tomorrow night will still be more than what our lads are normally used to.

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Get in there lad! Nyiaow!

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

If that's his considered judgement from 50 years at the top in the game, so be it. Your judgement is based on....?

A surprise decision if that's what it is. Perhaps Long is deflated and out of sorts following Reading's defeat. We are not there to see.

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I think that is what Tardelli appeared to be suggesting when he said that Cox was the fore-runner to start right now. However, he appeared to leave open the possibility of Long proving he'd be worth a starting place between now and kick-off. Tardelli also mentioned that Long was unfit - probably fatigued - when he trained on Wednesday, although he was fine yesterday, whereas Cox, in contrast, is presumably considered fresh and upbeat in both body and mind.

Love how Edin Nuredinoski has become a household name in Ireland. Forget the fans, he's our twelfth man!!

Except this game probably won't be about our strikers, but our rather more obvious deficiencies....

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Love how Edin Nuredinoski has become a household name in Ireland. Forget the fans, he's our twelfth man!!

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These kind of posts will jinx this 100%! He'll end up performing like Lev Yashin. Or even *shudder* Dudu Awat.

Agree completely with Tets etc. above on the Cox and Long issue. Also, Cox's lack of games could work in his favour, he should just be revving nicely around about now having only really started to play towards the end of the season. Long on the other hand is sure to be almost completely drained but will still be a superb guy to bring off the bench.

What annoys me about the Cox inclusion over Long is that it highlights the fact that we are altering our starting 11 to counteract THEIR tactics. Our team of players are far superior than theirs and surely we should be choosing our strongest 11 available (which most definately includes Long) and letting them choose THEIR tactics on the basis of our starting 11.

Also the notion that Long won't get any joy against their big, physical defenders is a fallacy. Long has just played a full season in the Championship, a league where tall physical dogged defences are the norm and has scored 23 goals.

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Originally Posted by tommy_c12000

Apologies missed the Tardelli quote. Have been in hospital for last few days but back now with renewed vigour as you can see! Is there a link to it here? Scrolled through prevous pages there and cudnt find it

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It was Geysir who posted it, not sure exactly where it is myself (Ian Harte thread?). Basically Tradelli said ages back that we have younger, fresher options than Harte. This must have been when Cunningham and Clark were fit.

Hope the recovery goes well.

Come on YBIG.

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Originally Posted by tommy_c12000

My judgement is based on the facts as I see them:
1. Long: 47 championship starts - 23 goals. Has played exceptionally well in the 9 or 10 games that I've watched him in this season
2. Cox: 8 premiership starts (a mere 772mins of football this season) - 1 goal. From what I've seen of him this season he is a useful player but not in the same league as Long.
3. And the fact that I am 46 years Trap's junior which means I have far fewer senile plaques clouding my judgement. Trap's last trophy of note was 14 years ago (German title)

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So you're an ageist. Fergie has done ok depite his advancing years.

I am sure Trap has the same information you have. However, unlike you, he can see both players in training in front of him. The fact that Long has had 47 Championship starts and is just coming off the back of a devastating play off defeat at Wembley compared to a fresh and eager player may be the key here. I don't know the reason but I am sure there is one.

If you were a bit older, you mightn't have fallen for the anti-Trap propaganda put out about Harte but that comes with old age when you're able to discern bullsh*t from truth.