Epl 2010/11

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

The defender did kind of block his path the the ball but it didn't force Hernandez to hurl it the way he did, I think it would have been very soft. United were luckier to escape when Lovenkrands went down after contact from Anderson (an incident that Ferguson didn't see I believe!). Again, it would have been soft but it was probably more justified that United's claim, and more than likely would have resulted in a free kick had it been outside the box.

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What I find laughable is when a player obviously dives and the opposition crowd around him abusing him. Next minute they are in the other box doing the exact same thing.

Arsenal have thrown the league away this year. They should have collected 3 points last night but for the madness of their keeper and need I mention the debacle away to Newcastle and other gifts to the opposition. A decent keeper and a couple of defenders and the title would have been theirs. Good entertainment though. Not sure how much longer many of their top players will hang around waiting for a trophy.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

What I find laughable is when a player obviously dives and the opposition crowd around him abusing him. Next minute they are in the other box doing the exact same thing.

Arsenal have thrown the league away this year. They should have collected 3 points last night but for the madness of their keeper and need I mention the debacle away to Newcastle and other gifts to the opposition. A decent keeper and a couple of defenders and the title would have been theirs. Good entertainment though. Not sure how much longer many of their top players will hang around waiting for a trophy.

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Did they throw it away though or are they just not good enough? I take your point about a decent keeper and a couple of additions but i remember mid 90's Liverpool were a centre half away and then the next season a midfielder away. Chelsea could say the same if they hadn't had their slump and Man U would have walked away with it buy now if their away form was better. Sure Arry Redknapp is saying that Spurs are one or two away now yet he said mid season they could win the league this season and the champions league.

They have thrown it away because they didn't make the necessary signings. Arsenal have consistently refused to splash the cash when it was obvious where their weakenesses are. I take the point though that one never knows but a dodgy keeper gave away two points last night and a team with a reasonable defence does not give away a 3 goal lead against a mediocre side like Newcastle. 5 points alone in those two games.

If I was an Arsenal fan, I'd be pulling my hair out. Now back to the NPower Division One league table. Oh my God, the Owls are only 15th. Wrings hands, pulls hair....

It's rare that a January signing makes a massive impact at the top of the table though. It's usually the signings for teams at the other end who make the biggest difference to a team in the following months.

Wenger lost Vermaelen early in the season, despite the usual reports that he would be back "in a few weeks", he's still to play again since then and should have been replaced in the last transfer window. They had three decent (if not outstanding) first team keepers in the squad, but all fell to either injury, inexperience or just general crapness.

Despite all his talents, and what he has brought to the Premier League, Wenger has a complete blind spot for defence, and defensive-minded players.

Didn't get to see the Arsenal game but saw the first Chelsea "goal". I would say from the Linesman's view it looked over the line but the experts said he couldn't be sure. Of course if it had gone over the line by a fraction he would have been crucified for not giving it. The fault lies entirely with UEFA/FIFA not with some sap carrying a flag who has 1 second to make the decision.

Of course as a neutral I was delighted to see them win. Makes the game against Man U a must see. The latter's run in looks much easier than Chelsea's, even were the latter to win (a goal by Torres I suspect).

Still fun and games at the bottom. Many people wrote Wolves off after the Stoke result. They don't have too bad a run in. I still think they can do it.

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Originally Posted by KK77

Did they throw it away though or are they just not good enough? I take your point about a decent keeper and a couple of additions but i remember mid 90's Liverpool were a centre half away and then the next season a midfielder away. Chelsea could say the same if they hadn't had their slump and Man U would have walked away with it buy now if their away form was better. Sure Arry Redknapp is saying that Spurs are one or two away now yet he said mid season they could win the league this season and the champions league.

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Are Arsenal not good enough to beat Blackburn & Sunderland at home, only get 1 point frrom Newcastle (and that after blowinga 4 goal lead), only getting 2 points from WBA (against whom Almunia was personally responsible for blowing 4 points) and so on? Of course they're good enough, the execution was sloppy.

Arsenal have lost 13 points from winning positions this season. That suggests fragility (mental & physical), lack of leadership and basic deficiencies in certain positions to me. Arsenal may well only lose this year's league by 3 or 4 points. The dogs on the street can see that a decent keeper alone might have made good the shortfall, not to mention another CB, a ball winning CM (thety never properly replaced Flamini - and even he was hardly a star) and a proper hard working no. 9. Lee Dixon says that Darren Bent would have been ideal and I agree.

I've still no idea what Pat Rice brings to the party. An unanimated Wenger yes-man is all I can see. A pal madea great point tyo me about Dalglish: Liverpool finally have a manager who is bigger than the players. On top of that he has appointed a very strong no. 2 (Clarke). At this stage Wenger may be seen as a paternal figure by his players, but not someone they're in awe of anymore. I doubt they ever had any huge respect for Rice's "moral authority".

Point taken about Chelsea blowing it too, but both teams can argue that they left a lot of points out there. United blew some leads but also picked up some fortunate points. Vidic & Rooney seem immune from red cards.

Anyway, if I was boss at Arsenal I would:

Sell Almunia, Denilson, Rosicky and Bendtner. I woulsd probably sell Arshavin too. He is way more talented than he has delivered so obviously isn't up for it.

My reference point for possible replacements isn't huge, but on the assumption the financial people want me to balance the books I would buy Kevin Doyle who would put in the hard yards that Van P and Nasri would exploit. I would buy Landon Donovan, a great dead ball deliverer and a guy who has proved his class at Everton & for the USA. He's a worker and a winner, is more effective than Rosicky and he'd be a commercial asset wrt USA. I would consider buying Flamini back, depending on his wages / transfer fee. They miss his tenacity and tackling. I'd prefer Given over Schwarzer - error prone in big games. He had an awful WC, replicating his 'boro career. But I think there may well be better buys thanh Given out there. Bear in mind that both the Poles actually showed great promise at times this year.

I don't know about which CB I'd buy but I'm sure that any one of about a dozen EPL regulars would do a better job than Squillacci. I actually think Koscielny would be good alongside a stronger player like Vermaelen.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Didn't get to see the Arsenal game but saw the first Chelsea "goal". I would say from the Linesman's view it looked over the line but the experts said he couldn't be sure. Of course if it had gone over the line by a fraction he would have been crucified for not giving it. The fault lies entirely with UEFA/FIFA not with some sap carrying a flag who has 1 second to make the decision.

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If it was the touchline it'd have been given as a throw and nobody would have complained. I always feel the definition of "whole of the ball" is appplied differently on the touchline, or for a corner or goal kick, than it is between the posts.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I've still no idea what Pat Rice brings to the party. An unanimated Wenger yes-man is all I can see. A pal madea great point tyo me about Dalglish: Liverpool finally have a manager who is bigger than the players. On top of that he has appointed a very strong no. 2 (Clarke). At this stage Wenger may be seen as a paternal figure by his players, but not someone they're in awe of anymore. I doubt they ever had any huge respect for Rice's "moral authority".

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Yes, it is amusing seeing Wenger going absolutely ballistic and Pat Rice sitting there poker faced letting it all wash over him. That is the sort of personality required for Wenger as his No. Two I think. We don't know what goes on at the Arsenal training ground or behind the scenes. Just because he doesn't rant and rave, it doesn't mean that Rice is not effective at whatever he does.

I wouldn't buy the theory that Dalglish is bigger than the players. To the fans perhaps, but not to the players themselves, many of whom were not born when he was playing and are from foreign parts. They are all multi-millionaires and he is some old Scotsman whom I suspect they find difficult to understand who once played at a high level. They have done well in the league under him but they have have also been knocked out of two cup competitions.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Are Arsenal not good enough to beat Blackburn & Sunderland at home, only get 1 point frrom Newcastle (and that after blowinga 4 goal lead), only getting 2 points from WBA (against whom Almunia was personally responsible for blowing 4 points) and so on? Of course they're good enough, the execution was sloppy.

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You could break it down like that every single season though. Arsenal's weaknesses makes it inevitable that they will drop points when they need them. The fact that they are dropping them in games where they should be good enough to win is irrelevant. The fact is that they weren't good enough.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Arsenal have lost 13 points from winning positions this season. That suggests fragility (mental & physical), lack of leadership and basic deficiencies in certain positions to me

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All a big part of not being good enough.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

If it was the touchline it'd have been given as a throw and nobody would have complained. I always feel the definition of "whole of the ball" is appplied differently on the touchline, or for a corner or goal kick, than it is between the posts.

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Don't entirely agree, but obviously the call isn't nearly as important. Players do complain when they feel they've kept the ball in play and the linesman gives a throw too, but obviously the same type mayhem isn't going to materialise. I do feel that the linesman should have to be pretty much sure the ball has crossed the line to award a goal, whereas I'd forgive him for going with a hunch in the case of a throw-in.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I wouldn't buy the theory that Dalglish is bigger than the players. To the fans perhaps, but not to the players themselves, many of whom were not born when he was playing and are from foreign parts. They are all multi-millionaires and he is some old Scotsman whom I suspect they find difficult to understand who once played at a high level. They have done well in the league under him but they have have also been knocked out of two cup competitions.

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Even if these players didn't know much about Dalglish's playing days, I'm sure they can feel the fans adoration inside Anfield. It wouldn't take much for them to sense he is more important to the club than they are. The same could hardly be said for Roy Hodgson. He has done an incredible job in his short time there in my opinion. He's not only getting results, notably against Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City, but he's made them far more solid defensively while playing a more attacking brand of football. He's also brought some young players through. He was barely in charge when they got knocked out of the FA Cup at Old Trafford to a fairly soft penalty, the Braga performances would have been disappointing alright.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

You could break it down like that every single season though. Arsenal's weaknesses makes it inevitable that they will drop points when they need them. The fact that they are dropping them in games where they should be good enough to win is irrelevant. The fact is that they weren't good enough.



All a big part of not being good enough.

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Strictly speaking that's true but just saying "they're not good enough" is a pretty facile analysis. Most of what they have is good enough and if a few obvious blind spots were addressed they'd be more than good enough.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Strictly speaking that's true but just saying "they're not good enough" is a pretty facile analysis. Most of what they have is good enough and if a few obvious blind spots were addressed they'd be more than good enough.

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Yeah, their weaknesses are obvious alright. Having said that, I don't believe their so called strenghts are really of the calibre of Chelsea's or Man Utd's either. If they had won the league this season, I would have put it down to United and Chelsea being so sloppy, that it allowed them to win something that they shouldn't really be capable of winning. Certainly not with the side they have at the moment.

I have read some over the top stuff in my day but this beats it all, particularly the bit about Hodgson. He has managed Inter Milan as far as I remember, a club with a small bit of success behind them. King Kenny! Knocked out of the FA Cup and the Europa Cup by second rate sides. I will be very surprised if he can turn around Liverpool to reach the heights Mr. Adams expects unless he is given a lorra lorra cash. Are Liverpool really playing with "dash and verve"? Effective perhaps but not dash and verve. It smacks of the sort of stuff Newcastle fans spoke about when Shearer went to manage Newcastle and we all know what happened there. We shall see but I for one have my doubts.

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With hope in our hearts, Anfield can believe again

DAVID ADAMS

Thu, May 05, 2011

United may surpass Liverpool’s league record but, with the king back at Anfield, their reign will be short-lived

When you walk through the storm

Hold your head up high

And don’t be afraid of the dark

At the end of the storm

There’s a golden sky

And the sweet silver song of the lark

WE CLUNG to the Anfield anthem, but it was difficult to hang on to the unerring faith that it espouses. As Liverpool Football Club lurched from one crisis to another, the storm was seemingly without end. Our dreams were more than just tossed and blown; they were reduced to tatters, and then resurrected as nightmares.

At one stage it looked as though the team might be relegated and the most successful English club ever forced into liquidation, such was the debt it had been saddled with by its owners. A fire sale of the club’s best players seemed inevitable.

It is difficult to raise one’s head, much less hold it high, when the proud and once magnificent institution that is the repository of so much of your love and so many of your dreams has been reduced to a tabloid laughing stock. I’m sure I wasn’t the only Liverpool stalwart haunted by thoughts of how fast and how far once great clubs like Leeds and Newcastle had fallen.

But last October the storm eventually did pass and a golden sky began to emerge over Anfield again, when New England Sports Ventures (now Fenway Sports Group) bought the club. A quick internet search confirmed the new owners were of the right calibre – just as 10 minutes on the internet in February 2007 had shown that the then new owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, almost certainly weren’t.

I shed a tear when Bill Shankly retired and bucket-loads of them after Hillsborough. I was close to crying again in October, only this time with sheer relief. The skies were golden again, but the lark had yet to sing.

Our previous manager but one, Rafael Benitez, had stood four-square with the supporters, and fought the previous owners until he was exhausted. They eventually sacked him.

Roy Hodgson, a manager with a distinct mid-table mentality, succeeded Rafa. He was immediately out of his depth at a club with the history, traditions and world stature of Liverpool. He tried to apply the same methods that had worked for him at innumerable second-rate outfits around Europe. But his journeyman football was the very antithesis of everything that Liverpool stands for. We have been raised on entertaining football; we expect our team to take to the field believing that they can beat whoever is lined up against them.

It wasn’t long before Roy had steered a demoralised and confused Liverpool to just above the relegation zone. Roy is a nice man, apparently, but so too are lots of other people who aren’t capable of managing Liverpool.

In January, to sighs of relief all round, including probably from Roy himself, he was sacked and “king Kenny” Dalglish installed as interim manager until the end of the season when he will surely be awarded a long-term contract.

It is impossible to exaggerate the esteem in which Dalglish is held by everyone connected with Liverpool. He was the club’s greatest player, one of its best managers, and is that rarest of creatures in professional football, a man of the highest integrity.

Kenny and his wife Marina gave so much of themselves in support of the families of the 96 supporters who perished at Hillsborough in 1989, he had to retire, emotionally shattered, from football for a while.

Dalglish has instilled confidence, unified the club, and brought a smile back to the faces of everyone associated with Liverpool. You could sell tickets to his sharp-witted press conferences. Players, who until he arrived had seemed totally lost, have responded to his personable man-management style by taking 30 points from his 15 league games in charge (second only to Chelsea in form). Better still, thanks to Kenny and his training staff, they have begun to play with the dash and verve expected of a Liverpool side.

In every respect, Dalglish epitomises the much-lauded “Liverpool way”. At last, the sweet silver song of the lark can be heard around Anfield again. Even the sale in January of top striker Fernando Torres failed to dampen spirits. Dalglish responded in the Liverpool style of old by replacing him with the Alan Shearer-esque Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez, who is showing flashes of brilliance reminiscent of Dalglish in his heyday.

If Manchester United win the Premiership this season they will surpass Liverpool’s record of 18 league titles. I would prefer if they didn’t, but will lose no sleep if they do. It is only a matter of time before they are playing catch-up again. The storm is ended, the king is back, and Liverpool Football Club is on the march again. There is now more than just hope in our hearts, there is belief again.

© 2011 The Irish Times

Quick quiz question, can you name 4 players who've played in the premier league for both Chelsea and Man Utd?

Veron, Hughes........gonna have to think of other 2.

Mal Donaghy? I know he's played for both but not sure if it was in the PL era?

Mikel was a United player wasn't he? never played though obviously!

Bosnich!

Last one is gonna kill me.

Mickey Thomas or perhaps that's pre-Premiership. What about Ray Wilkins?

My cryptic clues would have been as follows:

Little witch (i.e. Veron)
Les the Electrician (i.e. Leslie Mark Hughes [Sparkey])
Nearly rhymes with Aussie, Aussie, Aussie (i.e. Bosnich [Bozzie])

The last one, which still hasnt been guessed: Had One (memorable) Night in Turin

I'm pretty sure Thomas, Butch Wilkins and Mal Donoghy are all pre-premiership for at least one of the clubs.

Yeah and Mikel Obi never played for Man Utd. And on the subject of him can anyone name the Croatian player who signed for a Premiership team after playing in Croatia's first World Cup but never played for them (like Mikel at Man Utd)? Hint: It's a Real question

Paul Parker?

Did he play for Chelsea? If he did it must have been towards end of his career.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

My cryptic clues would have been as follows:

Little witch (i.e. Veron)
Les the Electrician (i.e. Leslie Mark Hughes [Sparkey])
Nearly rhymes with Aussie, Aussie, Aussie (i.e. Bosnich [Bozzie])

The last one, which still hasnt been guessed: Had One (memorable) Night in Turin

I'm pretty sure Thomas, Butch Wilkins and Mal Donoghy are all pre-premiership for at least one of the clubs.

Yeah and Mikel Obi never played for Man Utd. And on the subject of him can anyone name the Croatian player who signed for a Premiership team after playing in Croatia's first World Cup but never played for them (like Mikel at Man Utd)? Hint: It's a Real question

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Jarni?