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"Our best Nations League campaign" is not a ringing endorsement in fairness. The last ten minutes against Armenia we lost all composure when a goal for them would have meant relegation. Armenia were not a good side (as evidenced by Scotland/Ukraine thumping them)
We were crap at times, but we also were very good at home to Scotland and in the "away" game to Ukraine. I did also say that it shows how bad we have been when that was our best, but its in response to a poster who seems to think that we were good under previous managers recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Well it wasn't a rebuild. The teams he picked are there for all to see. It takes opinion out of it. There was no talk of building for 2024 until after the Luxembourg defeat. The media ran with it and the influence of the media in how fans react can't be underestimated. For a couple of decades, many supporters got their opinions off Giles or Dunphy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I don't know if you're being serious with the Nation's League thing? "I think Im right in saying the last one was our best ever under any manager?". Haven't we only had 3 Nations League campaigns? And Kenny was in charge for 2 of them. The other one was when O Neill had lost the dressing room and then got sacked. Honestly, sometimes you just have to laugh at the defence put up for Kenny.
We have a really good mix of youth and experience in the squad, as we've had for the last 2 years. I think they've been let down badly by poor management but I'll be roaring them on against France. Some people forget that the players are the priority, not a manager you've backed.
I think Dunphy's retirement has helped Kenny. He'd be laying into him on TV every match (like he laid into far better) and it'd tilt the discussion a bit. The current crop are very civilised in comparison.
I know, and I wasn't saying that there was anything like what was heard under the previous two managers, just noting that at the end of the last two games, there was audible booing, which I haven't heard at any game under Kenny so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
not sure exactly what you're looking forQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Here's the goals scored since 2010
Year Games Goals Goals per Game 2010 9 13 1.44 2011 14 26 1.86 2012 12 14 1.17 2013 14 19 1.36 2014 11 20 1.82 2015 9 12 1.33 2016 13 19 1.46 2017 11 10 0.91 2018 9 4 0.44 2019 10 13 1.30 2020 8 1 0.13 2021 12 20 1.67 2022 10 13 1.30
I know what the criteria is, thanks. I also know that all those teams will have a game in hand on us on the last night, and that will be decisive if it comes down to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
It really doesn't matter whether he made subs in Malta or scored in the last minute against Armenia. The demand was that we win the game. We won the game, so that is the end of the discussion. Or should have been.
Crowds have been very high for a manager that apparantly, the majority think was a mistake. I didn't hear any booing at the Armenia game. What I did hear after the game, was singing and dancing to a song by a washed up one hit wonder from Italy in 1997.
The point of debate here is not to change opinions. You can't change opinions that don't want to change. All you can do is put forward your arguments and defend them when challenged.
And that's why you don't get it. And because you don't get it, you don't want anyone else to get it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
For you, it's all about winning matches, and qualifying for tournaments, and statistics. For those who back him, it's all about progress and bringing through new players and playing a style of football where we play the ball on the floor and we have more attacking weapons available than Duffy's head.
Sure, you can qualify for tournaments, but that's not necessarily a sign of progress if you're embarrassed when you get there. Nobody was singing his name after the Luxembourg game, not the home one anyway, because there was nobody there. I know you don't believe us but this team isn't capable of getting to tournaments right now You tell us how great it was that Slovakia got to the last Euros. You don't say that Spain kicked them out of it 5-0. If that's what you want this team to do, fair enough, but it's not in the best interests of Irish football.
No he wouldn't. He's one of his biggest backers in the media, because he plays the style of play that Dunphy wants us to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Of course it's all about winning matches and qualifying for tournaments! What's the alternative? Wanting us to lose matches and not qualify for tournaments? This is the kind of crazy talk that surrounds the Kenny reign.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
My point was that Slovakia weren't a great team and you've just backed that up. Plus they were missing key players, it was a great opportunity for Kenny but he blew it. It would have been amazing to get to Euro 2020 and we didn't embarrass ourselves at our last major tournament.
We were close to qualifying before Kenny arrived and that was with an outdated manager. Imagine if a good manager came in at that stage? They would have had an experienced squad available to them and all these youngsters added to it. We would have qualified for Euro 2020. Gave the World Cup qualification a good go and be in a much stronger position now. Instead look at us. The Kenny reign has set us back years. You talk about progress but there has been none. We're in a far worse position now than when he took over. We need a competent manager to come in and turn things around. These players deserve far better and they're not hopeless like Kenny and his supporters like to make out.
In print and on podcasts Dunphy has been very light on Kenny, seems to have thrown his support behind him. Brian Kerr and Richard Dunne have been quite vocal on TV, Brian in particular has been scathing.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
RTÉ pundits have been very lenient towards him, in fact, overly positive given what has been served up. It can't be denied that the reaction on there has an influence over the general viewer.Quote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
These players are getting their game for Ireland in the context of Ireland changing its style to something more fluid - it doesn't get better in terms of showing belief in the players. I'm 'meh' about Kenny, and wouldn't complain if a replacement was found, but in fairness to him, he hasn't been talking the players down or saying they are hopeless.Quote:
These players deserve far better and they're not hopeless like Kenny and his supporters like to make out.
Stephen Kenny:Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
“With Portugal and Serbia in the group, and the spine of the last campaign being ripped out of the group, did anyone think we were favourites to qualify or that we should qualify?"
And a typical Kenny supporter quote taken from this page:
"I know you don't believe us but this team isn't capable of getting to tournaments right now"
And yet there are people like you tearing into him because he pushed the boat out, by saying he wanted to win the NL group. He can't win with you lot, all you want is that he's sacked, so we can get back to hoofball and Duffy's head asap. And still failing to qualify.
Slovakia are not a great side, but they're still better than us. Whatever the great opportunity for us to qualify was, no Irish manager has ever won in Slovakia. The game finished as a draw like all the others out there. Only those with an agenda would blame a manager for players missing penalties. Of course if Mick was a competent manager, we wouldn't have even needed to go out there in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I've posted what the alternative is in the last post. If you can't read it properly, you can't be helped.
There's nothing wrong with saying your aim is to win a Nations League group but when you fail miserably and come close to coming last in the group, then expect to be called out on it. The next part is a straw man argument. I said nothing about playing hoofball. It is actually possible to compete and play good football, you just need a manager capable of implementing that. Unfortunately, we haven't got that and landing it on Duffy's head probably saved Kenny his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Slovakia were missing key players. It was a fantastic opportunity. Of course the players were blamed again for that failure. It's never Kenny's fault is it? McCarthy was never a great manager and by his second term, his methods were outdated but if Kenny had got so close to qualifying with Denmark and Switzerland in the group, you'd be erecting statues for him.
I think whoever came in after McCarthy, no one could have envisaged just how bad the results and performances would have sunk. Even the most pessimistic person wouldn't have said Kenny would be this bad. It's been such a disaster that we mightn't even get a backdoor play off for the next euros because Kenny has driven us so far down the rankings. A common judge on a manager is to see where their team was prior to them taking over and where they have left them. It's indisputable that Kenny has left us in a far worse spot but his supporters will keep singing his name. Hopefully more will start to realise that keeping him in charge is very damaging to our future, the last set of fixtures saw a good few turn that way.
I can't believe we're back to the "it's either Kenny or hoofball" argument. What absolute nonsense, I expect more serious debate on this forum!
As a reminder, the forum does have an ignore button
To be clear, when he took over we were ranked 23rd (with a lowest possible rank of 24) and in this campaign, with the group rejigged, we came 26th (with a lowest possible rank of 31). It’s not a significant difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
It actually is a hugely significant difference as it could mean not getting a play off v getting a play off previously. Also, the lack of performance has left us with the France/Holland group. We've dropped from 34th to 48th in the World rankings. So to be clear, no amount of spin can change the fact that Kenny's reign has been disastrous.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
23rd didn't guarantee you a playoff then either. obviously we got it - but it was still a risk. we were the 11th B team and we're now the 10th - so the likelihood of reaching the playoff is largely similar (higher of reaching pool B playoff, lower of reaching pool A playoff). Also, had we come 23rd - we'd still be in pot 3, which would have given us an equal chance to be in a group in france and netherlandsQuote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I'm not an expert on the play off process. I'm just basing it off what I've read. We're maybe 50/50 at best to get a play off this time while a higher chance last time. And the last one was based on the disastrous O Neill group when he lost the dressing room?Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
But basically, a better manager and better results would have left us in a stronger position in terms of getting a play off and a better draw for the Euros. You're trying to spin it but not getting second seeds was down to Kenny failing to reach even his stated targets.
According to you, there's a lot wrong with saying he wants us to win the group and failing, and there's a lot wrong with lowering our expectations to reflect where we stand. One extreme to the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I know you don't like facts that don't support your argument, but in terms of results, we have won 3 and drawn 1 of our last 6 games. That's not a disasterous record that supports an instant sacking. If anything it shows that we're making slow but steady progress, and calls for more encouragement from us, rather than rip up the project and go back to hoofball. I know people don't want it described as that, but that's what's on the menu in the event that Kenny is sacked. No it's park the bus, hang on for dear life, and launch the ball in the general direction of Duffy's head instead. The tried and trusted technique that is boring, outdated, and ineffective.