Gaa 2007

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

I wouldn't be too high on Donaghy at full forward. Also it's criminal to exclude Paul Griffin from the backs while I fail to see how Cahill impressed you.

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I'm agreed about Donaghy, but its a question of who will get the all star. He is not much different now than when he won the all star player of the year. On a simple football skill graph, Paddy Bradley is way out ahead.
It's the fashion to have a giant at full forward.

Cahill is an outstanding Dublin defender. I'ts fair enough to spread some all stars around the fine players in the also rans.
I can exclude Griffin because his manager excluded him yesterday.
And just how many Kerrymen can a nation handle on an all star team?

Haven't we suffered enough?

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Why would the best GAA player in Ireland want to waste his time in LOI?

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Sorry, I didnt know that Kerry Gaa are now issuing their players with payment.

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Originally Posted by red bellied

Sorry, I didnt know that Kerry Gaa are now issuing their players with payment.

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I am sure Cooper is as well off working in the bank and being the highest profile GAA player in Ireland, than he would be if he was a full time pro in the LOI.

This from today's Indo is the ultimate in whinging:

Cork captain Derek Kavanagh says Kerry indulged in gamesmanship to protect their hefty lead in Sunday's All-Ireland football final.

After "a pretty sleepless night" in the Burlington Hotel where the Cork team had gathered to lick their wounds, Kavanagh reflected how his team had succumbed to the best and most experienced team around.

But he also highlighted how Kerry threw down the barriers once they went ahead by persistently "faking injuries every time we got going."

The Cork midfielder recalled how Kerry players were going down "left, right and centre" to break any momentum Cork were trying to establish.

Kavanagh feels it is the mark of a team that knows how to win and has had the benefit of so many All-Ireland appearances, but insisted it wasn't a complaint, merely a fact of the game.

"We were lucky to be only three points down after playing so badly and we were confident that there was a load more left in us. You have to hand it to them they are the best team in Ireland. They are the most experienced team in Ireland having played four All-Irelands in-a-row. When they get a lead like that up on you they know what to do. They had fellas going down faking injuries every time we got going.

"That's what they were doing and it's impossible to play against. They are masters of it, they were doing it left, right and centre, but that's sport and they're very good at it."

He has a point though. I just wish Kerry met Armagh at the quarter final stage. Would be like throwing Drogba on a pitch with the 1970s Leeds team :)

I smile at the irony of Kavanagh's whine. In that Cork couldn't front up to Kerry's aggressive passion in the first half and then he moans that we were too soft in the second. I really don't think your point is relevant Shakermaker, Kerry have learnt, the hard way, that you need to be physically robust. If you go back five years this was patently absent from their play, now it is the making of a near perfect team, and anyway we played Armagh in the quarter's last year and did not have to resort to theatrics. I think the comparisons with Drogba start and end with Donaghy's proclamation that he didn't think Drogba would have swivelled as well as he did for the third goal!

As for the match itself, I'd imagine it was awful for anyone not from Kerry, bar delighting at the Gooch's magnificence. It seemed to me that Cork, for some bizarre reason, weren't really 'up for it' enough. Were they too relaxed or over-confident? I thought Morgan would've had them ready to break down walls. Their play in attack, in the telling opening exchanges, was laboured and lacking vim. The parallel of the previous evening's Ireland rugby match struck me as appropriate, only that on Sunday it was the favourites that played with all the pride and passion. No complaints from me though!

The over-riding feeling for me was just that it is a joy and a privilege to support that team, especially after the week Ireland had in the two 'foreign' sports. Their attitude is exemplary. To hear them talk about the pride and honour of wearing the jersey tugs at one's heartstrings, it's all about the team, never individuals. Maybe that can be attributed to tradition but I think the innate humility of Kerry people goes a long way too. Finally, and ominously, you get the feeling that this team thrives on success and now that they've got consecutive titles it will take a bit of luck, Dara O Sé's retirement, or a herculean effort to wrestle it away from them. A great team and, bar Paul Galvin, likeable fellas too.:)

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Why would the best GAA player in Ireland want to waste his time in LOI?

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To prove himself as an all round sportsman where others have failed?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

To prove himself as an all round sportsman where others have failed?

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It would be more impressive if he took over from Peter Stringer on the Munster rugby team and cut it in the Heiniken Cup rather than the LOI.

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

.....As for the match itself, I'd imagine it was awful for anyone not from Kerry, bar delighting at the Gooch's magnificence. )

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Don't you believe it! There were plenty, myself included, who took great delight watching Cork getting their asses spanked. :D

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

.......A great team and, bar Paul Galvin, likeable fellas too.:)

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Galvin is a real warrior. Every successful team has one. Nobby Stiles and Gennaro Gatusso come to mind.

If you don't want him any more in Kerry, send him up to us in Wicklow! :D

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

It would be more impressive if he took over from Peter Stringer on the Munster rugby team and cut it in the Heiniken Cup rather than the LOI.

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Agreed. And he's as likely to fail at it too

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

He has a point though. I just wish Kerry met Armagh at the quarter final stage. Would be like throwing Drogba on a pitch with the 1970s Leeds team :)

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Is that supposed to be a joke?
Kerry met Monaghan in the QF, they couldn't have had a harder game.
Even Galvin couldn't last the pace and had to be carried off :)
In the end, Kerry took all the hits and stood strong.
It was then I knew the Dubs didn't stand an earthly chance.

Kerry are, the fittest, the most skillfull, the second hardest team in Ireland and totally deserving to be AI champions.

have no fear ireland...Gaillimh will be back next yr(or defo within 2/3 years), we are near enough now having a completly differant 15 that even started back in 2001.

Gooch??.... wait till Damien Reddington hits the senior panel....some player, best ive seen in minor for a long time(2 footed, very fast)!!. plus we might get what we've been missing the past few years..... A MID-FIELD!!.

i feel the dubs have missed there chance the past yr or two, there not a young team and they have still failed to deliver!.

i think a few teams will come out of the pack next yr

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Galvin is a real warrior. Every successful team has one. Nobby Stiles and Gennaro Gatusso come to mind.

If you don't want him any more in Kerry, send him up to us in Wicklow! :D

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yeah he is some player, but did he really have to roll around like a girl! (similar to Gattusso there alright)

The football All-Star nominations were released this evening. Ten in total for Kerry, no major complaints. Of those omitted from the starting fifteen only maybe Pádraig Reidy could have a slight quibble after two very good showings in the semi and final and he was pretty good in the Munster final as well, but a poor display against Monaghan has seemingly come against him. Tom O'Sullivan and Eoin Brosnan didn't have vintage years so no surprise there. Seamus Scanlon was excellent in the final but that rightly isn't enough for a nomination. I hardly saw any of the other counties in action so I won't pretend I know what I'm talking about any further.

Goalkeepers: Stephen Cluxton (Dublin); Brendan Murphy (Meath); Diarmuid Murphy (Kerry).

Full-backs: Marc O'Se (Kerry); Kevin McCloy (Derry); Graham Canty (Cork); Darren Fay (Meath); David Henry (Dublin); Conor Gormley (Tyrone); Ross Donovan (Sligo); Dessie Mone (Monaghan); Karl Lacey (Donegal).

Half-backs: Tomas O'Se (Kerry); Aidan O Mahony (Kerry); Killian Young (Kerry); Barry Cahill (Dublin); Michael McNamara (Sligo); Noel O'Leary (Cork); Gary McQuaid (Monaghan); Damien Freeman (Monaghan); Caoimhin King (Meath).

Midfield: Ciaran Whelan (Dublin); Darragh O'Se (Kerry); Nicholas Murphy (Cork); Fergal Doherty (Derry); Sean Cavanagh (Tyrone); Paddy Keenan (Louth).

Half-forwards: Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry); Paul Galvin (Kerry); Alan Brogan (Dublin); Bernard Brogan (Dublin); Anthony Moyles (Meath); Stephen Bray (Meath); Raymond Mulgrew (Tyrone); John Doyle (Kildare); Nicky Joyce (Galway).

Full-forwards: Colm Cooper (Kerry); Kieran Donaghy (Kerry); Thomas Freeman (Monaghan); Paddy Bradley (Derry); Donncha O'Connor (Cork); James Masters (Cork); Michael Cussen (Cork); Graham Geraghty (Meath); Mark Vaughan (Dublin).

my problem with the ALL-STARS is that your inclusion depends on your counties progression in the championship!!...

Call me biased here but anyone who watched Nickey Joyce this year would not vote against him getting one even, but since we didnt even make the 1/4's he doesnt have a hope of getting one!. he was by far our best player all year and kicked us to victory in virtually both games we won and nearly the ones we lost!!

he scored the most poins in a single game this year of 9.

im sure there are plenty of other players in the same boat the only one i can see getting one who didnt get to the semi's is paddy bradley!!

time they accesed the players on the individual performances and not there counties, any player who plays over say... 3 games should be accesed on a fair basis!!

The reason for that gilberto is that the players selected would have produced the required form consistently against stronger opposition.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

The reason for that gilberto is that the players selected would have produced the required form consistently against stronger opposition.

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i get your point but thats kind of what im agruing against, your accessed more on how your team performed rather then your individual performance as such!... i dont think its a fair reflection of the best players all year..... even in football you get the team of the year, if someone is setting the world alight he will get his reward..... we're 4th bottom and i wouldnt be surprised if one of our boys(reggie imo) got the nod for the team of the yr... or mooney for longford. the players individual achievements are recognised ''significantly'' more in other codes then the GAA!!

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

the players individual achievements are recognised ''significantly'' more in other codes then the GAA!!

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Poppycock. The problem is that the championship system knocks teams out. Maybe a better way of looking at it would be when trying to pick a team of the World Cup as against the eL. That should be simple enough that I don't need to explain it.

At any rate, a player who is outstanding in the winter during the league and backs it up with a few reasonable performances in summer will usually be in with a shout. I'd imagine Donegal's Karl Lacey will get a spot on that basis, as Matty Forde did in 2004. It is a fair system, the judges are right, the players are only human and shur once there's food in the cupboard what more do you want.

Oh, and it's assess, not access. Spelling like that, while sometimes amusing, is pretty annoying when not in isolation. Cheers buddy. :)

Delighted for Conor Gormley's nomination, coming back to top form after a double leg break.
Good recognition for O'Donovan and Paddy Keenan from the also rans. I am now hopeful for a second all star for Monaghan, Dessie Mone could sneak in there. The back lash against Kerry winning every thing begins, possibly a max of 6 for Kerry.

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Originally Posted by geysir

The back lash against Kerry winning every thing begins, possibly a max of 6 for Kerry.

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Kerry certs; Marc and Dara O'Sé, Declan O'Sullivan, Gooch.

Possibles; one, or perhaps two if we're very lucky, of Tomás O'Sé, Killian Young or Aidan O'Mahony. (Mahony at CB would be my selection) Maybe Paul Galvin. So yeah, probably max six but definitely five. I don't think Donaghy is deserving of one, or even near it.

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

have no fear ireland...Gaillimh will be back next yr(or defo within 2/3 years), we are near enough now having a completly differant 15 that even started back in 2001.

Gooch??.... wait till Damien Reddington hits the senior panel....some player, best ive seen in minor for a long time(2 footed, very fast)!!. plus we might get what we've been missing the past few years..... A MID-FIELD!!.

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Ya galway should improve when the tired older players like joyce retire. they have nothing to offer imo. Reddington is an excellent prospect

Excluding Paul Griffin from the nominees is a joke. He was Dublin's best defender by far. Cahill getting a nod makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

my problem with the ALL-STARS is that your inclusion depends on your counties progression in the championship!!... .........
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Dont think that is the case.

Look at John Doyle of Kildare. What has he done to merit inclusion? :confused: :confused: Kildare got beaten in the first round of Leinster, won the first qualifer then went out to Louth in the second qualifer.

I know I am biased but I thought Wicklow's Leighton Glynn was worth a nomination. Wicklow played 6 games this summer, 3 in the Leinster championship where they lost to Louth after a second replay, then three in winning the Tommy Murphy Cup. Glynn was outstanding in 5 of those games, especially in the final against Antrim. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Dont think that is the case.

Look at John Doyle of Kildare. What has he done to merit inclusion? :confused: :confused: Kildare got beaten in the first round of Leinster, won the first qualifer then went out to Louth in the second qualifer.

I know I am biased but I thought Wicklow's Leighton Glynn was worth a nomination. Wicklow played 6 games this summer, 3 in the Leinster championship where they lost to Louth after a second replay, then three in winning the Tommy Murphy Cup. Glynn was outstanding in 5 of those games, especially in the final against Antrim. :mad:

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yes he got a nomination i was talking about making the team, when the 15 are picked it will be mostly dublin(cause there the dubs and they got far enough to be given some),kerry and cork......

I'd hate to see Paddy Bradley go through his whole career and not get an All Star. Going to be tough for him again this year.

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Dont think that is the case.

Look at John Doyle of Kildare. What has he done to merit inclusion? :confused: :confused: Kildare got beaten in the first round of Leinster, won the first qualifer then went out to Louth in the second qualifer.
I know I am biased ....

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I suppose it doesn't help that Doyle knocked Wicklow out of Leinster a couple of years ago :)
I don't know much about Doyle this year, I remember he was rampant against Roscommon.

Delighted for Ross , he certainly deserved it as he was top class for us all Summer

Good list of nominations. From a Kerry aspect they got them all correct with the exception of Padraig Reidy.
One would have to feel a bit sorry for Shane Ryan, had a consistent season I thought, obviously he wouldn't win won but if Doherty and Keenan can be nominated then is just as deserving.

Delighted the judges didn't believe the local hype and nominate O'Hara. Having said that they made some crazy picks imo. Cussen didn't deserve to be nominated. Not in any way shape or form. He had 15 mins in the Munster Final. He is a good player, Cork just didn't play him enough. I mean he was absolutely anonymous in the Louth match.

Its nice to recognise the achievements of the so-called lesser counties by giving out nominations but do Sligo really deserve one?
I don't believe they do. I was delighted (as most people were) to see them win Connaught, but it was without doubt the worst Provinical Championship in years, certainly the worst I've watched in my few years following Gaa. And they did little to endear themselves with the performance against Cork. Sometimes a team can do well without having great individual performances and I think Sligo were one of those cases. Did well in winning Connaught but no-one player deserved a nomination.
Just look at Cork. In the build up to the final they had the best 1-9 in the country. How many of them were nominated? 3. Kerry had 6. Dublin had 4.

Obviously we all have our own opinions in who should be selected. I mean Masters finished top scorer of the championship. Was he Corks player of the year? No, there are a couple ahead of him I reckon. For a man who scores so freely does he contribute much to the team, or much to play? I don't believe so.

I reckon maybe 9 of the places are certs,

GK Cluxton

CB Marc O Sé
FB Graham Canty
CB Mone/McCloy/Gormley

HB Tomás O Sé
CB Aidan O'Mahony
HB Young/Cahill/King

MF Dara O Sé/Murphy/Whelan
MF

HF Declan O'Sullivan
CF Galvin/Bray/Brogan
HF Alan Brogan

CF The Gooch
FF Bradley/O'Connor/Donaghy
CF Thomas Freeman

there are still some interesting quirks and twists there this year.

The full back line has one very open spot. For me Kevin McCloy should get it as the few games I saw I thought he was impressive. Having said that if Tyrone were to get a nod somewhere for reaching the QF ( i know ridiculous:rolleyes:) then Gormley is the only one I could see being represented considering Monaghan have a nailed on spot in Tomas Freeman.
For the 2nd wing back spot I'm convinced Barry Cahill was nominated because of the coverage his blocks got against Derry. Whereas Caoimhin King had a very good campaign. Killian Young has had a fantabulous season and will get young player of the year (And deservedly so for any Dubs who think it should be Brogan), but will the selectors pick an All Kerry half back line? I doubt it. So they will probably pick between King and Cahill for the final spot.

Midfield will be unusual too insofar as any of three could get it. Nicholas Murphy was nailed on before the final but was eclipsed by Dara. But I thought Murphy was definitely better than Whelan all season. A nod to history might get it for Dara (when have 3 brothers been on the same team before?) and the Dublin bias would get Whelan selected.

There is good competition for places in the forwards despite it not being a great football year. Certs are sure to be Declan O'Sullivan, The Gooch, Thomas Freeman and Alan Brogan. Then its a half forward fight between Galvin, Stephen Bray and Bernard Brogan. I've a feeling the younger Brogan will get it, especially if he's in with a shout of getting young player of the year, but I would myself give it to Stephen Bray, as he did a fair bit early on in the championship.
The last place is fairly up for grabs if only because there was no outstanding full forward this year. My own choice would be Donncha O'Connor who had a fine year, but I'd fear he'll lose out to Paddy Bradley, who in fairness had a fine year too.
Player of the Year: Declan O'Sullivan
Young Player of the Year: Killian Young

Remember the positions may be neatly assigned on the day but the selection process means a corner forward, for example, could easily be given the nod over a full forward and vice versa. Effectively they look for the three best players in a line (two in midfield and 1 in nets though obviously). This format was brought in after Brian Whelehan missed out despite being named players' player of the year.

In goals I'd have to go with Cluxton, another excellent year from a superb goalkeeping talent.

In the full forward line I don't rate Donaghy and Bradley to me was probably the third best player between full and corner forwards so I'd stick him in with the Gooch and Freeman. I don't think anyone doubts Gooch will get the nod, Freeman is just as deserving of an All Star but isn't quite the lock with the voters that Cooper is. I still think Freeman will get it and deservedly so.

Haven't made up my mind on the rest of the field yet. Will look into it further.

If we're giving opinions on what we want ourselves I'll go for this: Kerry 9 cork 3 Derry 1 Dublin 1 Monaghan 1

Murphy

Marc O'Se
Kevin McCloy
Graham Canty

Tomas O'Se
Aidan O'Mahony
Killian Young

Dara OSe
Nicholas Murphy

Declan O'Sullivan
Alan Brogan
Paul Galvin (this man doesn't get enough credit as a footballer-every county in the country would start him)

The Gooch
Tomas Freeman
Donnacha O'Connor

However if we're going on what team we think will be picked Kerry 5 Dublin 3 Cork 2 Monaghan 2 Meath 2 Derry 2.

Cluxton
O'Se
Canty
Mone
O'Se
O'Leary
King
Whelan
O'Se
O'Sullivan
Brogan
Bray
Gooch
Bradley
freeman

A lot will depend on who they pick for Young Player of the year also. The chances of them not giving YPOY an All-Star are slim and while the popular opinion is that its between young and Brogan this would mean either O'Leary, King or Bray missing out.

I feel this Kerry team isn't getting the credit it deserves. The shift in opinion in the papers from the Sunday to the Monday was incredible and there are a lot of shams that I won't pay any heed to anymore. That fcuker Paidi for one. The boll1x. Definitely we had it tougher this year than any since 2000, lost some key players (not just the Pony and Mike Mac, but also Guiney (who was due a run this year) and while the transition was choppy to start with by the end of the year it appeared seamless, with more to come next year.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Its nice to recognise the achievements of the so-called lesser counties by giving out nominations but do Sligo really deserve one?
I don't believe they do. I was delighted (as most people were) to see them win Connaught, but it was without doubt the worst Provinical Championship in years, certainly the worst I've watched in my few years following Gaa. And they did little to endear themselves with the performance against Cork. Sometimes a team can do well without having great individual performances and I think Sligo were one of those cases. Did well in winning Connaught but no-one player deserved a nomination.
Just look at Cork. In the build up to the final they had the best 1-9 in the country. How many of them were nominated? 3. Kerry had 6. Dublin had 4.

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Dont know what you mean about local hype about O'Hara , no one in Sligo was saying he should get All Star nom. In regards saying if Sligo players desrved nominations you may have a point , but the fact is they won Connacht , its not their fault if it was deemed as being a bad year , not sure the same would have been said if it was Gallway that won by a point . All i know is that the Sligo players nominiated play extremely well in their 4 championship games.

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Originally Posted by gustavo

Dont know what you mean about local hype about O'Hara , no one in Sligo was saying he should get All Star nom. In regards saying if Sligo players desrved nominations you may have a point , but the fact is they won Connacht , its not their fault if it was deemed as being a bad year , not sure the same would have been said if it was Gallway that won by a point . All i know is that the Sligo players nominiated play extremely well in their 4 championship games.

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Fair nuff maybe on this board, boards.ie perhaps. Definitely in the media in general (a lot coming from people who would only name a player they recognise - O'hara being the seminal Sligo player of the decade) there was a big push for him.
I don't begrudge any Sligo player a nomination, just don't necessarily believe its deserved. And I would say that about Galway, definitely not deserved.

I think O'Hara earned his nod this year in spite of the players around him. He put in the performances required to be nominated even if the team he played on wasn't great.

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

I think O'Hara earned his nod this year in spite of the players around him. He put in the performances required to be nominated even if the team he played on wasn't great.

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erm, don't think he was nominated AS

Sligo didn't do enough to deserve this amount of discussion:)
Imo, the stand out obvious nomination from the Sligo team was Ross Donovan. He is there on merit without a trace of tokenism involved

Who selects the all stars anyway?

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Originally Posted by geysir

Sligo didn't do enough to deserve this amount of discussion:)
Imo, the stand out obvious nomination from the Sligo team was Ross Donovan. He is there on merit without a trace of tokenism involved

Who selects the all stars anyway?

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Touché. A bunch of journo's pick it.

Who do people think were the Player and young player of the year then!

Oops, I foolishly made the assumption that the Sligo player nominated was he. Mea culpa.

I agree with the point that we've discussed Sligo too much.

Who do you guys feel are locks, sure things so to speak, to get awards?

O'Sullivan, Gooch and Freeman (despite my earlier limited reservations about his prospects) are three that I think are shoo-ins.

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

Oops, I foolishly made the assumption that the Sligo player nominated was he. Mea culpa.

I agree with the point that we've discussed Sligo too much.

Who do you guys feel are locks, sure things so to speak, to get awards?

O'Sullivan, Gooch and Freeman (despite my earlier limited reservations about his prospects) are three that I think are shoo-ins.

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I'm probably getting irritating on the subject but these are my locks of the year!

Marc O'Sé
Tomas O'Sé
Declan O'Sullivan
Aidan O'Mahony
Alan Brogan
Colm Cooper
Tomas Freeman

Player of the year Cooper/o'Sullivan (nobody else near it)

I wouldn't call Brogan a lock. To me the Dub most likely to get the nod is Cluxton.

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Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

I wouldn't call Brogan a lock. To me the Dub most likely to get the nod is Cluxton.

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Ok. These are the half-forwards.
Half-forwards: Declan O'Sullivan (Kerry); Paul Galvin (Kerry); Alan Brogan (Dublin); Bernard Brogan (Dublin); Anthony Moyles (Meath); Stephen Bray (Meath); Raymond Mulgrew (Tyrone); John Doyle (Kildare); Nicky Joyce (Galway).

Declan is guarenteed a spot. So that leaves realistically

Half-forwards: Alan Brogan (Dublin); Stephen Bray (Meath); Raymond Mulgrew (Tyrone); Nicky Joyce (Galway). Bernard Brogan (Dublin); Anthony Moyles (Meath);

Do you still think he isn't a lock. he's a media darling and the fact the media gimps are gonna shaft Killian Young for YPOY with Bernard Brogan, that nails it on even more for me.