Possibly on his way to Bayern Munich going by latest reports. 7mil sterling. Would be a great move.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/fo...ing_fc_striker
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Possibly on his way to Bayern Munich going by latest reports. 7mil sterling. Would be a great move.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/fo...ing_fc_striker
In terms of Bayerns position they wanted to enter the new season with Olic, Gomez, Klose as backup/impact and Petersen as the reserve / up and coming. Klose rejected a new contract and went to Lazio which frees up a vacancy there. Petersen is a really modest player they got for only 3 million I don't think they'd be comfortable entering the new season with their strikeforce as it is even with Muller capable of playing there as backup. Yet I don't think they'd want to splash big money on a player with Gomez and Olic already there. What they want is someone who can bring bench impact, something different and be a reliable scoring threat. I'd still say Long would be a strange one, but the fact that bayern offered Klose a 1 year deal after signing Petersen tells me they're in the market for a backup striker.
Do we want Long going there and filling a Solskjær-like role sitting on the bench?
Depends on the alternatives, it'd definitely be preferable than another season in the championship. They do have a worrying history of letting quality strikers rot in the reserves over there. Roque Santa Cruz and Lukas Podolski come to mind.
Its a tough one, we have seen how much he has come on this season with being the number one striker, he is in a position where he had Robbie Keanes spot in his sights until recently according to some, with even Trap hinting at that. If Bayren are willing to spend the kind of dollar being mentioned you would assume they would want more than just a squad player and feel he could contribute regularly to first team requirements. I think he should go for it and if he is good enough the rest will take care of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Also, wasnt Trap manager of Bayren? Maybe he has told them of treasure to be had in the English second division in Long, maybe they agree.
I really like the thought of a young Irish player in his pomp being courted by a European giant but that would be my concern also. Robbie was an even hotter property way back when and had to play fourth fiddle to the likes of Vieri, Zamorano and Recoba although there was a managerial change that didn't help. I wouldn't assume Shane is Bayern's primary or singular target either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Having said that, I watch a bit of Bundesliga, it's an entertaining league and it'd be smashing to have an Irish interest there.
Humorously so..Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1sprC3-nmM
McGeady was heavily linked with Bayern a few years back. Apparently Trap's opinion was sought and he recommended him but nothing came of it.
We can expect to see West Brom receive a bid for Simon Cox in the next few days so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
true enough. Though in this instance I'd happily apply Johnny Giles logic that you always go with the biggest club that are in for you. SL goes to Bayern and it works out -result. If it doesn't work out he'll "trickle down" -maybe to the class of EPL club (Wolves, Newcastle, Everton) that are said to be sniffing. He won't trickle down to Bayern from anywhere. No brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
This is true. Bayern are one of the top 6 clubs in Europe and one of the most renowned historically. If your on their books regardless of your contribution teams will take note if you later become available.
Why should our players settle for Premiership mediocrity so early in their lives; as mentioned, better to try and fail at a club like Bayern, than to have never tried at all. I actually think Long's good enough for a club like that & could be a great launchpad to a greater career. He'd learn so much in an environment like that.
I personally think for Irish players to improve overall, our lads need to start seriously considering moving away from the comfort zone of the English / Scottish leagues. I don't know if they do already, but perhaps our national coaching setup needs to considering giving our young-lads lessons in european languages so they're more inclined to move abroad.
That would be a smashing idea. However what really needs to happen is a proper academy system a la France. We need a Clairefontaine big time.
You are on the money there! It is badly needed, but who wouldn't we need a solid professional team set up to then take these players on? Any thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
On Long, the German game IMO is less frantic and would suit him as there seems to be more build up play. With his positional sense and inherent anticipation, he could thrive in the Bundesliga.
In essence yes but that could come down the line. It would be far more advantageous for us that we have better players no matter where they play.
If we ended up with a situation where we had a national academy the trickle down effect would mean that even the LOI would end up with better players and so on.
At the moment we rely on the English systems and all that does is create the same type of player over and over again.
We then have a situation where the truly creative players like Fahey and A Reid get stuck because their skills aren't needed by teams flirting with relegation etc. So they end up at lesser teams than they otherwise would have played with.
Thankfully my spiel can't now just be dismissed because if anything McGeady's move to Russia shows how a player can improve within a mediocre team in a mediocre league.
I understand your argument and in theory it makes sense. However, in practice how do we hold on to these players? We set up an academy and Man Utd comes calling after seeing one of the players. What choice does this player have? You can mention contracts etc that will keep players at an academy, but once a big club comes calling players will inevitably move.
Personally, I think we need to assess what style of football we really want to develop in Ireland. We produce hardworking, determined players who possibly lack the type of skill that continental teams have.
Do we improve this part of our game? I don't have the answers, but keeping in mind the economic mess the country is in, an overhaul of coaching and the introduction of a unified approach to the game's development might be cheaper than an academy.
In saying this I still hate how our young players have no choice but to go to England to further their football opportunities.
It all starts early.
My brother plays u11 in the SDFL. His team have just achieved a second successive promotion by the the long ball.
Whilst it's effective not one of the players on the time has excelled or improved in those 2 years to the extent that you would hope. And now they get to have all the fun of 11 a side next season. Patently ridiculous for kids that size.
These are the things that cab be changed with next to no cost. A smaller ball on a smaller pitch. A ban in kicking it over head height would ensure ball control would have to develop. Anyway that's an over simplification but you know where I'm doing with this.
Your point about Man U or other teams whilst valid is really moot at this stage. Training up these kids will not mean they are lost to Ireland or Irish soccer indefinitely.
Let's start first...
Your points are certainly valid and I am not trying to be negative for the sake of being negative. But in terms of funding or possible finance where would the incentive be if ultimately the products of an academy ended up overseas. I still think we need clubs here that could further develop these players for such an academy to work. Unfortunately, the LOI clubs would probably be the last option for many potential players. This isn't meant to be a criticism more just the nature of soccer in Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
As I'm typing on mobile its harder to convey points quickly whilst at the same time not chucking my phone against the wall. I'll respond later on gastric as it could be a nice long post.
Also I know you're not being negative for negative's sake.
I can see a new thread in the offing...
Unfortunately, its bedtime soon in Oz, so I will signing off! However, I agree that something should be done to further develop the game in Ireland, the question I think we are both posing is how best to do it. It is certainly worthy of debate and I am happy to continue this discussion when our morning comes around.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Music to my ears and many others I suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
the only way i could see that working is if something similiar to the rugby magners league was set up. with 4 or watever small number of irish teams competing at a high level, drawing big crowds every week. say a team from dublin, cork ,belfast, galway, cardiff etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
each with an academy and a realistic incentive of top class football, champs league and all.
i think this would be the best way forward. people might be skeptical and stay away at first, but if the standards are high the crowds will come. i see this as the only real way that an irish club could have a impact in the champions league. also the standards of our international team would greatly improve
do you think this is realistic, LOI fans are bound to be against it . im not actually calling for abolishing the league and all the histories of its clubs. that could still operate the same way, with the best players coming to play at these new higher standard irish teams rther than being poached overseas
What has Champions League football got to do with opening a national academy?
i didn't say a national academy, i said irish clubs each with academies that would hopefully be able to make an impact in the cl at some stage.
That would probably require UEFA giving an extraordinary amount of leeway, especially if Welsh clubs were to partake.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
Yeah, but myself and gastric were talking about that and you've managed to disband the LOI and bring in some Welsh teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
Anyway none of this has anything to do with Shane Long either...
It works here in North America with Canadian teams participating in MLS. There's always a way if you're creative. I agree with the assessment that Irish teams are unlikely to ever do much in Europe unless there is a major restructuring and a link up with other small leagues in the UK/Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
your right its not very realistic, just an idea really as it works very well for the rugby.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
ha ok i was just putting my pin on the academy idea. back to shane soQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
which leagues would you think might amalgamate. the original one i said wales probably would be a non runner as they already have 2 teams at or around the epl. it would all depend on the old firm jumpin ship. have uefa ever allowed something similiar to happen before anywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
It took you exactly one post to go back off topic... well played sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
thank you sir
Anytime...Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
So has there been any move on our wee Shane heading to Bayern?
Not that I know of, and I'd be surprised if they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
One cross-border league among peripheral countries would lead to calls for another cross-border league among less peripheral countries, and so on until a larger European-wide "superleague" would be lobbied for (again) by the major clubs. The clubs would gain more control over the game, at the expense of UEFA's authority. Remember, UEFA also shot down the idea of an "Atlantic League".
Ultimately the so-called "European Model of Sport" would be threatened, a concept that the EU is sympathetic towards, and hence why they allow UEFA to engage in restrictive practices such as collective selling of Champions League TV rights. In another industry this would be in blatant breach of articles 101 and 102 of the Lisbon Treaty, but sport's "specificity" can sometimes be argued to support such monopolistic behaviour. In this instance a pyramidal structure with national leagues featuring promotion and relegation, solidarity from the top of the pyramid to the bottom (facilitated by TV revenue sharing, transfer fees etc.) and cross-border club and (importantly) national teams is seen as the "European model" of team sport. The EU, in 2007's White Paper, came short of wholly endorsing this model across all sports but I think it's clear they would support UEFA on these grounds if a new move towards a superleague emerged. In any event, the G14 has now been disbanded and the European Club Association has been formed and is recognised as a key stakeholder by UEFA. It appears that UEFA is still in charge, so to speak, and will remain so.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's in UEFA's best interests to keep national leagues independent, or else their control over European football may begin to slip. It may deny Ireland a platform to compete at a higher level of club football, but by and large I support UEFA, especially in its stand against the out of control Thatcherite model of football endorsed by the EPL.
A potentially ironic outcome of a multi-country "Magners League" could be that Irish clubs would benefit, but club football in general would gain more control over the game, at the expense of international football. For all FIFA's criticisms of late I, for one, am glad that both FIFA and UEFA are fighting for the international game - even if it may be out of self-interest. In UEFA's case I honestly think they care, and I quite like them and Platini.
That said, Platini has supported a Dutch-Belgian league merger, and a Balkan-wide league in the past.
I suggested last year that the Europa League be reconfigured on a regional basis, with more group games, and guaranteeing entry to clubs like the best 2-3 Irish clubs. A specialist football / sports economist in Belgium thought it was a rubbish idea!
thanks for that stutt a lot of research gone in there
very interesting article bout holland/belgium, makes you think if uefa can support that merger then there really is a possibility of something happening here.
10 - 15 years ago it seemed that a european super league was defo on the cards , havent heard any mention of it in a while. the europa league seems to be becoming less important each year im not sure expanding it even more will do it any good.
okay, ill humour you that the attractiveness of Welsh teams to the irish public will be the panacaea that cures domestic football but why would we have to regionalise and, i presume, get the Welsh (Nordies and Scots?) to regionalise (akin to Celtic Cup rugby). Wouldnt your plan work just as well without destroying the 121 year history of an institution like Bohemians? Or the 5 year history of those whippersnappers, Shamrock Rovers? ;)
If it is an academy you are after then it should be administered by the FAI and graduates are drafted to the league clubs (like the NFL draft or something). Ive posted on this before at length a while back. Will try and root out the posts at some stage.
I also think this discussion should be removed from this thread by the mods and a new thread created.
bonnieshels already sorted it out, i responded to you here
http://foot.ie/threads/152711-The-ca...tional-Academy
sums up long fairly well here, from foot365, doesn't mention bayern
Shane Long - Reading
A bit obvious given his goals last season and the amount of attention he has already received this summer, but forwards who bag a few in the Championship are usually the first to be snapped up by eager managers who Sky Plus 'The Football League Show'. A busy little bee, Long has a decent leap for a not particularly big man, as well as a nice turn of pace and a decent finish. Perhaps most importantly - and this is meant in the nicest possible way - he's a little b*stard to play against, nudging and shoving and chirping away, almost irritating opposition defences into submission. For a man unproven in the Premier League he won't come cheap, but he's a rough diamond who can be polished by the right man.
Who Might Want Him: Everton, Newcastle, Sunderland, QPR.
edit: it wouldn't mention bayern, the article only conernin epl clubs
Has there been anything further on the Bayern link?
Nothing that I can see except stuff from a Bayern forum on 14/06 and NOTW on 12/06
any idea what the bayern fans think about itQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
bayern fans not convinced to say the least
http://www.bayernzone.com/transfers/...hane-long.html
Sure why would they. He's some English defender they've never heard of. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
The Bayern online rumour mill appears to be an expansive operation. Almost 50 active, individual-centric threads on that first page alone. Shane get's the honor of his own but in line with that other forum, it's a combination of (understandably) not knowing who he is and wanting a defender instead.