LOI In Europe 2025

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Shels are definitely a mid-table team this season.

That said, and I only caught the second half, I thought they played some good football and looked threatening at times. Maybe it was a bit naive (or maybe worth the risk) to open up and push for the equaliser. Other teams might have sat back, kept things tighter, and taken their chances in the second leg.

Still, that third goal is hard to shake.

It’s one of those where the scoreline feels both harsh and justified at the same time. Reminded me of some Dundalk games from last year...

Overall, across the League of Ireland, we’re still lacking quality and guile in the final third. The general standard of play has improved massively, but we just don’t have the same cutting edge you see in other leagues. We can hold onto the ball well, and be defensively solid for large periods, but we struggle to create chances against the run of play and don’t convert enough of the half-chances we do get.

Maybe there is not enough pace in our teams or cant switch it up the passing enough, I dont know.

From what I’ve seen of the Icelandic league, that’s the biggest difference between them and us.

Rovers were the exception to it last year. They looked they could score at any stage of any game. Having a player of Johnny Kennys standard really makes a huge difference in how you can play in Europe.

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On the final third I think this is a bit of a phenomenon across all leagues to some extent at the moment. Any player who has a half decent season in front of goal almost immediately moves up to the next level available to them. If they thrive there it's not too long before they move up again. Look at Bohs recent striker history Georgie Kelly, great season immediately moved to the UK & suffered with injuries since. Promise Omechere (winger converted to striker) decent half season & moved to the UK. Johnny Afolabi, good season immediately moved to Belgium. It's not just Bohs either Shels lost Moylan after a really good season and have struggled to replace him, Graydon at Derry is a good example of this as well. Played well at Longford got a move to Derry, played well there got a move to Fleetwood IIRC. This has always happened to some extent but the dearth of top level talent in the final third seems to be exacerbating it at the minute. You look back on some players who spent the majority of their career in the league and wonder how the likes of Rory Feely and Ciaran Kelly got moved to the UK and had relatives success and better players in the past didn't.

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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

On the final third I think this is a bit of a phenomenon across all leagues to some extent at the moment. Any player who has a half decent season in front of goal almost immediately moves up to the next level available to them. If they thrive there it's not too long before they move up again. Look at Bohs recent striker history Georgie Kelly, great season immediately moved to the UK & suffered with injuries since. Promise Omechere (winger converted to striker) decent half season & moved to the UK. Johnny Afolabi, good season immediately moved to Belgium. It's not just Bohs either Shels lost Moylan after a really good season and have struggled to replace him, Graydon at Derry is a good example of this as well. Played well at Longford got a move to Derry, played well there got a move to Fleetwood IIRC. This has always happened to some extent but the dearth of top level talent in the final third seems to be exacerbating it at the minute. You look back on some players who spent the majority of their career in the league and wonder how the likes of Rory Feely and Ciaran Kelly got moved to the UK and had relatives success and better players in the past didn't.

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Its a fair point. Dundalk were blessed to have the likes of David McMillian, Patrick McEleney, Pat Hoban and Stephen O'Donnell, who were all at the proverbial ceilings of their careers.

Still doesnt change the fact that it is there were the biggest difference between LOI and leagues above us are.

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Its a fair point. Dundalk were blessed to have the likes of David McMillian, Patrick McEleney, Pat Hoban and Stephen O'Donnell, who were all at the proverbial ceilings of their careers.

Still doesnt change the fact that it is there were the biggest difference between LOI and leagues above us are.

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Absolutely I just think that gulf between us and the leagues above us also exists for those leagues and the leagues above them. The best talent is being funnelled to the top leagues a lot quicker than it used to be. Like Henrick Larsson won a golden show while playing at Celtic and didn't get a big money move to a top 5 league until 2/3 seasons later. I don't think stuff like that will happen any more unfortunately. Even looking at this Bohs team now Dawson Devoy has a great half season(at least I see it as a great half season) and there's already talk of Bundesliga 2 teams being in for him. Your young lb going over to Brighton is another example he's played about a season of men's football all in and will be your record transfer fee. I can't see how that gulf in class can easily be closed when it's so difficult to hold on to good players, never mind great players.

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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

I can't see how that gulf in class can easily be closed when it's so difficult to hold on to good players, never mind great players.

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For sure, there is a pecking order in football, and there is going to be gaps in skill in players between the different levels.

I was just raising the point that:

1. Other leagues similar to ours seem to be able to produce more potent attacking play (nothing scientific about that, just my feeling from watching football).
2. We are able to compete with levels above us in terms of general play.

There is always going to be holes in our game compared to other leagues. No harm in pointing them out though. Especially as maybe it is something permeating through our whole football culture (ie. what we put emphasis on and dont put enough on when developing players).

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Overall, across the League of Ireland, we’re still lacking quality and guile in the final third. The general standard of play has improved massively, but we just don’t have the same cutting edge you see in other leagues. We can hold onto the ball well, and be defensively solid for large periods, but we struggle to create chances against the run of play and don’t convert enough of the half-chances we do get.

Maybe there is not enough pace in our teams or cant switch it up the passing enough, I dont know.

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Lack of pace is undoubtedly a problem - but often players have pace and no skill or the other way around. Strikers are a highly coveted commodity and teams will way overpay to take a chance on one that is half decent. Any decent striker that pops up will be sniped very quickly and a majority of the transfers out of the LOI abroad involve strikers. The fact that someone like Frantz Pierrot chose to move to Bosnia after last season and is now with an Israeli second division team (that is noted for far-right and racist attitudes among its fan base shows the problem that exists.

Example of the competition - Shamrock Rovers are playing St. Joseph's tonight. St. Joseph's are owned by former Burnley owner Mike Garlick (who also owns a club over the border in Andalusia in the Spanish third division). They have an average attendance of about 550. They are not full-time professional but can attract quality players from Andalusia many of whom have previously played professional football in the Spanish second and third divisions and they can pay them very good part-time money. In the last year that accounts have been published, 2023, St Joseph's ran up over £550K in losses. This was on top of the club suffering a major financial collapse in 2022 leading to Garlick buying the club - and St. Joseph's have been in European football every year for the past ten years bar one. There is no way that they should be able to compete with clubs in the LOI - but they can because of a combination of money being thrown at them, European money and a pool of good players who want to play part-time (and have European football). In the last couple of years the Magpies have beaten Crusaders, drawn with Dundalk and last season knocked out Derry - St. Joseph's have knocked out Larne and drawn with Shelbourne who were rather lucky to beat them in the second leg - and the Red Imps beat Larne last season (I am including the Northern clubs because they face a similar problem as the LOI).

Irish clubs have the opposite problem - the attraction of English football and far more money in the lower leagues in England than is available in the LOI. Example - a micky mouse competition - the National League Cup involves NL teams and PL2 teams - the NL clubs get £10K for participating, for group games they get £8 for a win and £4 for draws, £15K for a knockout round win and the winners receive £60K with the runners-up getting £30K. Last season Sutton United lost in the final to Leeds U21s - they netted £100K in prizemoney for seven games (excluding gate receipts - attendances averaged about 1,200). Winning the FA Trophy (exclusively between non-league teams) can net the winners up to (or over) £500K between prize money, share of gate receipts from Wembley and TV money. NL teams enter at the third round stage of the FA trophy and winning a game at that stage nets £4.5K in prizemoney. NL clubs also receive 'solidarity' payments from the PL (I think about £100K). Getting to the FA cup third round (about 3 non-league teams do on average each year) is worth about £200K in prize money alone - not accounting for gate receipts (evenly divided between both teams) - and another £100K TV money if the game is televised. It is not uncommon for NL teams to have a turnover of £4m+ a year (Wrexham had a turnover of £7m the last year they were in the NL). Part-time players in the NL (last season five clubs were part-time) get paid about £600 a week.

So - after my little ramble - LOI clubs are not competing in Europe on a level playing field. Many clubs from smaller European countries have distinct advantages over the Irish clubs and Irish clubs have distinct disadvantages that are not necessarily faced by other clubs. On top of that Ireland is second in Europe for cost of living and this, with the housing crisis, contributes significantly to problems getting players to stay or come to play in the LOI. Strikers who have pace, a bit of skill and an ability to score in the LOI are like gold dust and when you find one chances are he will be gone to pastures new after a season. What you hope for is getting €1m+ in a transfer fee like St. Pats are getting for Melia (and a sell-on clause as well).

Rovers deservedly 1-0 up. Gaffney calmly lifting it over the keeper on a one on one.

i cannt get the stream working on one football...anyone got one

You have to download the app, Its a pain in the bum..

Finding it hard to watch the Rovers game due to the complete lack of atnosphere there. Did many supporters travel over for it?

Rovers could do with a second in the first half to sow up the victory. I'd imagine the standard of play might deteriorate in the second half in that heat.

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Originally Posted by yurt

Rovers could do with a second in the first half to sow up the victory. I'd imagine the standard of play might deteriorate in the second half in that heat.

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It says it is only 24c today. They’ve probably played in hotter and more humid conditions in recent years.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Finding it hard to watch the Rovers game due to the complete lack of atnosphere there. Did many supporters travel over for it?

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Same here, was expecting a bit of spice given the Shels game last year but either they've turned the mics down or it's as dead as it looks

St. Joseph's have feck all fans and probably not as many Rovers fans have made the trip over this year at short notice compared to Shels last year with their first European trip in 18 years, I would imagine many Rovers fans were planning to be in Solitude tonight

Kauno Zalgiris with a goal against Valur just now in front of a huge crowd by their standards.

3-0 now. Puts Shels and Derry's struggles in Gibraltar last year into context. Or maybe Rovers just don't have the runway as a distraction :p

Edit - 4-0. Must be getting on for a record LoI away win? I think there's been a couple of 4-0s. Derry v Aberystwth and maybe Rovers v Fram back in the day? Anything bigger?

Mics are definitely turned down. You can see there’s a crowd there when the ball is in the corners.

Rovers 3 up. Edit: 4-0

I see Ilves (the team with the best crest) are 4-2 up against Alkmaar. Bit of a surprise.

4-0 now. Tbf it’s not a 4-0 game at all, not even a 3-0 game. Rovers deserve to be ahead all right but St Joseph’s aren’t terrible. Game was quite even until they got the second with a massive slice of luck with the deflection.

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Originally Posted by ger121

Rovers 3 up. Edit: 4-0

I see Ilves (the team with the best crest) are 4-2 up against Alkmaar. Bit of a surprise.

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Jeez - I switched over for literally 10mins as it was boring me :D:o

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Edit - 4-0. Must be getting on for a record LoI away win? I think there's been a couple of 4-0s. Derry v Aberystwth and maybe Rovers v Fram back in the day? Anything bigger?

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Just to answer my own question - how could I forget about Gretna 1-5 Derry, and the foot.ie legend that w SuperGretna, who vanished shortly after :D

Derry beat Aberystwyth 4-0 at home but 5-0 away so that's the record. Rovers did beat Fram 4-0 away, and Sligo beat Banga 4-0 away in 2015. They're back in Europe for the first time since then tonight, 4-0 and a man down in Trondheim

Rovers have a squad that takes the "finishers" concept familiar in rugby and applied it all season.
Players who are good enough to start, and know they're good enough to start ,come on after 60/70 minutes and always make an impact against tiring teams.
Comfortable enough but bigger and better teams await.

Best thing about this is we can prioritise the Derry match on Sunday by playing a second string team on Thursday with a loaded bench

Keeping up the Andorran segues of this thread, FC Santa Coloma take a 2-1 lead away to Ukrainian side Polissya Zhotomyr in Slovakia

That'd lift them up to seventh in the standings this year. Irrelevantly early, yet fun for all that

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

3-0 now. Puts Shels and Derry's struggles in Gibraltar last year into context. Or maybe Rovers just don't have the runway as a distraction :p

Edit - 4-0. Must be getting on for a record LoI away win? I think there's been a couple of 4-0s. Derry v Aberystwth and maybe Rovers v Fram back in the day? Anything bigger?

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I make it 6 out of the 11 St. Joseph's players starting today who played in the corresponding game against Shels last season so hard to know if their lineup a year on is weaker, they also don't have Gibraltar all-time record cap holder/top goalscorer Liam Walker starting today who was definitely one of their standout threats in the matches against Shels

What Rovers did to Joseph’s is what seasoned european teams do to our sides from time to time. Just clinical when it matters and twist the knife when a couple of goals up. Tie done and dusted and half way to the League Phase.

Shakhtar take an early lead away to Besiktas. Loser faces Pats or Nomme next. Two big clubs to be meeting at this early stage in things, but you'd imagine Shakhtar would be favourites (so Besiktas for Pats). More so now

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Just to answer my own question - how could I forget about Gretna 1-5 Derry, and the foot.ie legend that w SuperGretna, who vanished shortly after :D

Derry beat Aberystwyth 4-0 at home but 5-0 away so that's the record. Rovers did beat Fram 4-0 away, and Sligo beat Banga 4-0 away in 2015. They're back in Europe for the first time since then tonight, 4-0 and a man down in Trondheim

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Bohs had a 5-1 v Rhyl back in 08, 9-3 aggregate.

Great win for Shamrock Rovers. Now its Pats turn. Hopefully an early goal to settle the tie.

Sparta Prague with a shocking defeat, my local club Spartak Trnava a bit lucky to beat a semi-pro Malta outfit 2:1 away from home.

I see Austria Wien after kicking off against FC Spaeri, a second division Georgian side who are the team of the Special State Protection Service. Was at a game of theirs a couple of years ago and about 50 uniformed soldiers marched in in file shortly before kickoff to watch. Want to be careful with that lot! But one of the fun random ties early European rounds can throw up

Edit - Dungannon go 1-0 up in Vaduz, which would be a great result if they can hold it

I'm off to check now they got into Europe in the first place now

Viking 6-0 Koper sees a mental season for Icelandic clubs continue - 8-0, 1-7, 6-0 and 5-0 so far.

The Georgian State Protection side a goal down already. That could easily hit double figures over two legs

Linfield drew in Lithuania tonight which they'll probably be happy enough with

And the Andorrans still winning against the Ukrainians into injury time

Edit - Viking make it 7-0 and all

any links to Pats match

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Viking 6-0 Koper sees a mental season for Icelandic clubs continue - 8-0, 1-7, 6-0 and 5-0 so far.

The Georgian State Protection side a goal down already. That could easily hit double figures over two legs

Linfield drew in Lithuania tonight which they'll probably be happy enough with

And the Andorrans still winning against the Ukrainians into injury time

Edit - Viking make it 7-0 and all

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They are the Norwegian version. They beat Sligo in 2021 or was it 2022? Caught me out too when I saw it earlier. Fecking Vikings.

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Originally Posted by vinnie

any links to Pats match

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It's on Solidsport live.

https://solidsport.com/stpatricksath...mes/g/vau68uze

A good night so far for the Nordies.

Sabah won away 2 nil against Petrocub who made the league stages last season. It really was an excellent result by Pat’s last year.

Santa Coloma won again. The Andorran sides have been crazy good this season and I have no idea why.

Not watching Pat’s but it seems from UEFA to be a fairly dominant performance so far?

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Originally Posted by ger121

They are the Norwegian version. They beat Sligo in 2021 or was it 2022? Caught me out too when I saw it earlier. Fecking Vikings.

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I was wondering why geysir hadn't been on about it :p

(And I had noticed the names ended in sen rather than son but presumed they just had loads of foreigners)

Must say I got a lot of joy out of watching Rovers hammer that shower. Absolutely hateful little club. Good enough for them.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I was wondering why geysir hadn't been on about it :p

(And I had noticed the names ended in sen rather than son but presumed they just had loads of foreigners)

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Oh he’ll be on at some stage!!

Nomme down to ten now - Pat's really need to take advantage here you feel. 25 to go

Rommi Siht sent off - which of course auto-correct corrected...

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Nomme down to ten now - Pat's really need to take advantage here you feel. 25 to go

Rommi Siht sent off - which of course auto-correct corrected...

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Pat’s seem wasteful yet again in a European game.

Down to 9 now according to UEFA