No point in feeding the troll.
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No point in feeding the troll.
Rovers are far too reliant on older players. CSAD is spot on. They should be putting Finn, Towell, Hoare and co out to pasture and bringing through some of these famous academy players, or otherwise going out and actually strengthening their squad.
There's three or four players in that starting team that are nowhere near good enough.
Hallelujah finally someone hits the nail on the head! And the fact I didn’t say means some on here might actually take notice!Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
as a neutral, I love nothing more than to see LOI clubs doing well in Europe, but over the course of two legs, this has been an absolute doing, and a massive reality check for the league. Breidablik have been excellent and you'd expect they'll put it right up to Kobenhavn
Just not good enough. We should as a league been doing better than this. Role on Thursdays matches
That's a disgraceful result for Shams and the league. When we were beaten by the Icelandic team a couple of years ago they were very poor and this crowd looked no betterr. We were slated in the media and by opposition fans at the time and probably rightly so. We had nowhere near the budget or calibre of player but seems those players are indeed not up to it and there has to be consideration for a change of manager.
I think most non-Rovers LoI fans can see this to be fairQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Rovers recruitment looks to have been poor aswell,Kenny,Burt,Power and probably Poom havent added anything,Clarke is injury prone aswell,not what an ageing squad needed to compete here.........
Well that's was as bad an LOI performance in Europe as I've seen in 20 years. And that includes Rovers waffling their way to defeat in Estonia in recent memory. Whoever wins the League this year will be one of the easy draw ties that all the other low ranked countries look forward to when the draw get made. Toothless, spiritless, hapless, hopeless from Bradley tonight. Is there any logic to taking Burke off? Or playing lump-it-long 4-5-1 to the lone, isolated front man? (Or whatever that tactic was tonight). A proven recipe for success away from home in the blistering heat of ...Iceland. If UEFA member's league's were hotels, the LOI would be Fawlty Towers ad SRFC would be Manuel.
Ah come on lads, I’m as critical as anyone but this wasn’t even close to our worst performance in 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
Rovers were poor no doubt, but the fact is we’re just a poor league this year. Everyone is taking points off everyone and there is very little consistency and momentum with anyone.
I guess I should have prhased it more that its the same type of mediocrity in tactics and general play that LOI sides used to go out of Europe to in c.2005; slow, one-dimensional, conceding soft goals, cant buy a goal to save their lives, predictable. Little has changed from LOI sides. Or the League has regressed massively. I know Rovers an continue on in Europe, but where they'l find any sort of performance from is beyond me.
I’ve already said a number of times that this team needs a rebuild and the infusion of 3/4 top class players be they from within or brought/ bought …. But again taking things in the round ( rather than the boom or bust Ollie Byrne type of approach) .Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
Bradley has brought the club to a different level ( and yes shock horror that allows us the luxury of buying in the best players - guess what that’s what successful clubs the world over do ) .
So you and others can criticise our recent performances in Europe etc. but the bottom line is Bradley in a few years has brought us from mid table mediocrity to being where we are today and it’s a sustainable model.
I bet there isn’t a single fan of any other club that would refuse to take that if offered it right now even if it meant losing a few games in Europe.
Eh yeah, every fan of every club would take that. Doesnt take away from the mediocrity Rovers have shown in Europe. We want tp progress as a league and its a tad Irish League of past years to claim that domestic success is ALL that matters. Bread and butter is great, but we need our league champions to raise all boats!Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Well its all talk, instead of saying Rovers need to rebuild they actually NEED to rebuild. Bradley is a complete spoofer, all talk and no action as this tie showed and the "investment" in the off season showed. And just so Rovers fans know, this will only go down hill from here as these old players get even older and the lack of investment is even more exposed, the best thing Rovers can do is bring in a more ambitious manager who actually know's what he's doing while things are still somewhat salvageable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Rovers with the resources they have should be achieving what they are achieving in the league, the fact is they were a complete basket case manager wise before Bradley took over so it doesnt really say a whole lot. The model Rovers have is totally unsustainable, its just doing the same thing Rovers did 2 years ago that is starting to crumble now that the players are getting older and not being replaced, its only a matter of time before Rovers start tumbling down the league.
Nah I'd say ask any fan what they would take they would take the Dundalk model from 2016, what I saw last time would almost turn you off football just how utterly appalling Rovers are its like watching a LOI side from 2005 as someone else on here said, I honestly still cant believe some 'fans' can watch that shambles last night (which is NOT a once off after watching previous seasons of Rovers) and not call the manager into question. Its complete minnowism to try and justify that performance based on where Rovers were, its Rovers fans just accepting the bare minimum of expectations.
You what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
Rovers finished in the European spots the three years before Bradley took over. He then took ye further away from the title in his first two years before Dundalk and Cork imploded.
Results in Europe are going backwards - from beating Brann, taking AIK and Apollon Limassol to extra time, and winning home and away against Icelandic opposition, to losing abjectly to Flora Tallinn, being outclassed away from home against Razgrad, Ferencvaros, Gent and Molde, and now losing home and away against Icelandic opposition.
That defeat could have cost Rovers millions - get drawn against the pre-qualifying winner, a part-time team, in the first round of the CL is a dream draw. A win and ye have three shots at the group stage. Instead ye've three matches against tougher opposition to win
Exactly. Reaching for the consolation of 'Well were still the best team in Ireland" is low-hanging fruit when they go and represent us (as LOI champions), as one of the worst teams in all of Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Apart from some enthusiastic spells that were probably more about energy than precision that was another flat, one dimensional performance from Rovers. I got the impression Breidablik were set up to get a head-on run at our back 3, a situation where we’re repeatedly vulnerable at home and in Europe. That seems to be a pretty effective tactic against Rovers. Off the top of my head Derry, Shels, Drogheda, Bohs, Pats*, Dundalk and Cork all scored important goals against us in this manner this season alone. Sligo had chances this way but didn’t take them. Draw your own conclusions.
*Pats lost 3-2 in the game I’m thinking of, the only one of the games I listed that haven’t cost Rovers points. I can’t remember their goals in the 2-2 in Tallaght
Pohls had an outstanding game, but maybe was slow to read the flight of the ball for the second goal. In contrast, their keeper was solid and commanding but wasn’t actually tested.
A lot of the responses to McDonnel’s tweet here seem pretty fair to me.
https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/sta...244629508?s=20
I don’t have an Indo subscription. Could anyone post McDonnel’s main match report please?
That's a post that sounds profound but actually when you think about it, it says nothing at all to contradict what the critics have been saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
in fairness a few of these academy players get snapped up by big clubs (or Millwall!) before they have a chance to get in the Rovers team.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Irish IndependentQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
International Soccer
Shamrock Rovers exit Champions League qualifying after disappointing defeat to Breidablik in Iceland
Breidablik 2 Shamrock Rovers 1 (Breidablik win 3-1 on aggregate)
Shamrock Rovers have exited the Champions League in meek fashion at the very first hurdle after losing 2-1 to Icelandic champions Breidablik in Kopavogur in the first qualifying round (3-1 on aggregate).
Stephen Bradley’s side now drop into the Europa Conference League second qualifying round.
The home team sat off more in the opening stages of the game but ten minutes in they begin to push on and get on top of the Hoops.
The Icelandic champions then created a trio of chances in a four-minute period, scoring from the third one. The home side doubled their advantage in the tie as Breidablik moved the ball quickly from front to back. Jason Svathorsson took the ball on from halfway, getting by Roberto Lopes before slotting it home past Pohls.
The Hoops had the ball in the net in the 20th minute after Gaffney raced clear on goal. However the offside flag went quickly up with VAR then confirming that the decision from the assistant referee was correct.
Pohls pulled off a brilliant save with his foot to stop Svanthorsson scoring his second as Rovers rode their luck but from the resulting corner Breidablik reworked the ball with Höskuldur Gunnlaugsson heading home to effectively end the tie for the Hoops.
They got a lifeline in the 64th minute with a handball in the box that required a VAR check on the sideline monitor from the Swedish referee. Graham Burke slotted home the spot kick for his eight goal in Europe – and Rovers’ first goal in their last four matches.
Burke audaciously almost grabbed another moments later, shooting from 45 yards with goalkeeper Anton Einarsson doing well to push out the ball out before he back-peddled over the goal-line.
Rovers will have to wait until Wednesday evening to find out who their opponents are in the Europa Conference League qualifiers. They will face the defeated team from the KI Klaksvik and Ferencvaros tie, with those teams having played out a scoreless draw last week in the first leg in the Faroe Islands.
Breidablik: Einarsson; Gunnlaugsson (C), Margeirsson, Muminovi?, Yeoman (Adalsteinsson 88); Sigurdarson (Ingvarsson 81), Sigurjónsson, Einarsson; Svanthórsson (Hlynsson 81), Steindórsson (Orrason 88), Eyjólfsson.
Shamrock Rovers: Pohls; Hoare, Lopes, Cleary; Finn (C) (Grace 86), O'Neill, Poom (Watts 70), Towell (Greene 70), Kavanagh; Burke (Kenny 78), Gaffney. Referee: Adam Ladeback (Sweden).
Indo article from this morning on Shamrock Rovers in Europe aswell
Daniel McDonnell
Today at 07:44
The looming presence of a historic World Cup in Australia has allowed Shamrock Rovers’ Champions League failure to slip under the radar, the cries for more exposure for League of Ireland exploits in Europe dying down when there’s a result you would like to go away.
There are mitigating factors that Rovers can point to in the attempt to explain a meek exit at the hands of Breidablik, a part-time Icelandic opponent from a league that is ranked lower in the UEFA charts.
Stephen Bradley would have expected his speedy wing backs Trevor Clarke and Neil Farrugia to be a big part of his European plans and the loss of Jack Byrne for the decider after he was clearly struggling in the first leg speaks for itself as a setback given his importance.
But Rovers have set standards for themselves as domestic champions and it arguably does them a disservice to apply kid-glove treatment to disappointments. At this stage of their development, they should be hitting a higher bar in this sphere.
Breidablik were technically sharp and clever in their movements – they are better than the unflattering description of their status - and no Irish club can afford to be complacent against teams from a country where they have really invested in development.
Yet there is something odd about the fact that Rovers, an Irish force that is developing a reputation for its work at academy level, look so old as a first team entity when placed against European peers. In Iceland last night, the youngest member of their starting team was 24-year-old Markus Poom, who was also the only winter arrival in the XI. The average age was 29.2.
Bradley’s dressing room is full of multiple league winners and they are still ahead in the race to emulate the four-in-a-row side of the 1980s.
But the number of points they have dropped this season – 8 draws and 4 defeats in 25 league games – should have them playing catch-up.
Across the 2022 campaign as a whole, the Hoops drew 7 games and lost 5. They conceded 22 goals across a 36-game league season and have already shipped that tally at the 25-game mark this time around.
Nobody has been good enough to punish that.
In reality, despite the attempts to freshen up their squad, Rovers remain reliant on the same faces and haven’t evolved.
Admittedly, they have tried to bring in prospects in the right age bracket but those individuals are leaving other LOI clubs for League One when previously they might have gone to Rovers as their next step.
The likes of Liam Scales, Andy Lyons and Danny Mandroiu came to Tallaght, improved and then left and they’ve not sourced replacements with the same upward trajectory.
There is a danger of slipping into kneejerk reaction mode in the immediate aftermath of a let-down.
Indeed, in his early days at Rovers, Bradley was written off prematurely on a number of occasions, including by his own supporters. His achievements shouldn’t be taken for granted; after a dysfunctional period he has been the central figure in the Hoops becoming serial winners again.
However, a critical assessment of their European performances is necessary if this group are to be considered an all-time great by LOI standards.
It’s possible that the team that broke through in the abridged 2020 campaign was Rovers’ best side of this era. They won 15 out of 18 games in the league and drew the other three with Jack Byrne and Aaron McEneff starring and doing well enough to earn moves further afield. Indeed in 2019, a two-legged victory over Norwegian side Brann highlighted their potential. That was an underrated result.
Since becoming champions, however, Rovers haven’t beaten a decent side over two legs. Teuta Durres (Albania), Hibernians (Malta) and Shkupi (Macedonia) are the only teams they’ve got the better of across 180 minutes and all of those opponents were in pre-season.
The counterpoint to that is that Rovers produced exceptional 90-minute displays against Slovan Bratislava (2021) and Ludogorets (2022) and they acquitted themselves well in the Conference League group games in Tallaght last year.
On the road, though, their record is mediocre, looking poor defensively even when they play three centre halves with two holding midfielders. Conceding four to Flora Tallinn two years ago was a scarring experience and Bradley’s charges now play more conservatively without being harder to break down.
The backlash from Breidablik will hurt this group and they could still go on a run through the Conference League qualifiers against other champions that have fallen by the wayside but advancing through three ties is a big ask.
It is deluded to expect that an Irish team will play group stage football every year, especially as European qualifiers are cup football where strange things can happen, yet it’s still jarring for Rovers that opponents from Estonia and Iceland are delivering crushing blows when they do have the resources to compete with them.
They reached the top of the Irish ladder at the right time, with changes to the structures of the competition opening a backdoor route that wasn’t available to the other dominant LOI sides of the 21st century.
Success at home could still make this an extremely memorable year for those of a Rovers persuasion and their European campaign isn’t over either.
The niggling feeling, though, is that this deflating reverse will add an asterisk to their legacy
Sounds like Dan's been reading this thread :)
That's an intelligent and observant piece by McDonnell. Respect for what Bradley has done at Rovers, but he's been there a while and probably time to get someone new in to manage (the Republic of) Ireland's biggest club - which, in terms of success, infrastructure, and profile, they most certainly are.
Shamrock Rovers (and the league) needs another Shamrock Rovers. Or two. Another SRFC-type club in terms of money, long-term security, youth prospects etc. That competition will drive standards higher with positive knock on effects all round in Europe. That would require gov and/or private investment.
There's a real disconnect between the talk of the youth academy and the age of the first team it seems. Ajax in theory only. A better balance needs to be struck there.
Maybe the pitch was a factor, but what disappointed me most was how much more skillful the Icelandics looked in possession. Good to watch. Rovers were mostly laboured and clumsy in comparison.
Agree with anyone who has made the point already that Rovers are simply too predictable. They have been rolling out the same thing for years now and that will catch up with you. Drogheda have their number.
I would like to point out too that, for all the praise that some recieve, there is very little real experience amongst the managers in the Premier Division. Arguably only Buckley has proven his ability to make a significant impact on teams in previous roles (and look at what he has done for a Cork team that looked broken that night in Dalymount).
Not profound but just like Daniel McD pointing out that there’s more to the Rovers project than European results which others here don’t wish to acknowledge, me thinks they don’t because to do so would then surface the reality of how far behind us all other clubs are in terms of longer term sustainability.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think plenty of credit has been given here to the stadium (well done DCC) and to the crowds and the academy. Plenty.
The criticism here is at Bradley, who is arguably not the person to take Rovers to where their standing says they should be. Getting knocked out by a part-time Icelandic team in Europe can happen. But getting outplayed home and away? Two years since the same thing happened against an Estonian side? Nope - you can't go defending that.
And even on the academy, the criticism is very valid - look at Pat's bringing through Melia, Curtis and Abankwah in recent times. Rovers don't seem close to as keen to give guys a game. Some players may make the bench a bit, some get loaned out to UCD (and that's going well), some get sold at 16/17 which defeats the point. To have the leading academy in the country and a first-team with an average age of 30 indicates something's going wrong.
Ultimately, your posts don't have any substance at all unfortunately.
That game reminded me a bit of our 4th year secondary school team v the teachers, crafty nifty kids outwitting their cumbersome elders.
I wasn’t surprised by Breidablik, but Rovers? they had no engine room, no purposeful patterns of play.
That’s why Breidablik are the most respected club in Iceland, not only for the quality of their academy (1,300 kids, 55 or so licensed coaches) but also the enjoyable way they are set up to play the game. That’s their football culture.
Most of those players have come through their academy since they were toddlers, some have played abroad and returned, like homing pigeons. But they’re not Ajax, obviously they are beatable, they’re all part-timers, even the captain is the proverbial baker. And contrary to some reports, none of them are within an asses roar of the national team, some got capped in winter camp friendly internationals in Algarve or such winter warm places, filling in the holes in the squad. It's no shame to be thoroughly outplayed over 2 legs but probably Rovers had other thoughts about their team.
Firstly my posts mirror fairly much what Dan McD said in his article and their substance is to point out that ‘in the round’ Bradley has been the main architect of a huge amount of the progress we’ve made as a club during his tenure and that is what he should be judged on imo. I’ve acknowledged that the first team needs serious surgery etc. but that’s the nature of things and again imo Bradley should be trusted ( based on his record) to carry out that rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I’ll leave it there as at this point imo there’s nothing further to be gained from this discussion so time will tell who has fell and we’ll see who gets left behind.
It's possibly approaching the territory that Bradley has simply taken them as far as he can, and someone else needs to take them to the next step.
How is having a side with an average age of over 30 sustainable? If anything that would worry me considering St Pats are only 4 points behind them in the league despite having a much younger squad, you tell me which squad has more growth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
But that’s a huge issue with Rovers, for all their much vaunted academy who in the XI has actually come through it and into the Rovers XI? Pohls probably and I stop there.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Pohls didn't come through their academy.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
Pohls didn’t come through the rovers academy, he signed in 2019 aged 21Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
He’s had plenty of time to rebuild the squad and what good has he done? Like someone else said this is a squad he’s taken as far as he’s capable of taking them, he can win the league but at the end of the day he’s a poor coach that’s too easy to read and that gets exposed in Europe when you come up against different styles you need to be able to adapt and Bradley just isn’t capable of that. Injuries or no injuries all sides have injuries and what separates the good and bad coaches are how you adapt in these situations and Bradley consistently proves he just isn’t capable of adapting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
If you want to keep him fair enough but this is only going one way. Either this season or next Season Rovers will fail to win the league and then after that they’ll struggle to make Europe…that’s what Rovers future holds if they stick with Bradley.
Wow well that’s makes thing a worse, so no one has come through the academy in their XI…Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
And some on here think this is a sustainable club!
I think others have argued here that the Board are the main architects of the progress, not necessarily Bradley. I'd tend to agree. One way of judging Bradley is on European progress - which is huge for the club given the money involved - and he's going backwards, as I showed earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcio Jack
I don't think his transfer record is great btw. Simon Power was always an unusual signing and hasn't made any impact. He's not been inclined to bring academy players through. Serdenyuk last year was rubbish by all accounts. He hasn't really been all that active in the transfer market at all really - that's why the squad is ageing and so similar to 3/4 years ago. Is he the person to lead a rebuild? Not sure he is.
One thing McDonnell doesn't mention - the only criticism I'd have of the article I think - is Dundalk and Cork's collapses, which catapulted Rovers to the top kind of by default. There was no particular indication in his first three years that Bradley would have managed that by himself.
Klaksvik with an early goal in Hungary!
This has been my thinking for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Given the way Rovers have got their act together very much as a club, in terms of academy, finances, ground, them becoming the dominant force in LOI was pretty much inevitable.
I do think there are similarities to Celtic there in that, despite Postecoglou winning everything there, there's still a question mark over whether those successes demonstrate that he's actually a decent manager, or whether they just demonstrate he's competent enough to avoid f**king things up.
What has Bradley done that is clearly him getting more than the sum of its parts from his team?
Crumbs!Quote:
Originally Posted by SPXcyan
Worth noting they've won all 16 of their league games this season too.
I'm sure we'll have them bigged up if they do lose (and face Rovers next)