UEFA Euro 2024 Qualifying Group B

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Originally Posted by WexCar.

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While he is not good enough anymore to warrant a squad place, picking him for a meaningless game is a small price to pay to show recognition for his loyalty and service to the Ireland team. After all, he has over 100 caps for his country, and it does send a message to the other players that their efforts are appreciated. It is far too easy to disregard this element of the game, they are people too and I won't be too quick to dehumanise the process.

At the end of the day not getting minutes in one meaningless friendly, that will also be the last game for the manager, will not negatively impact the development of any of these younger players who in other circumstances would maybe be in the squad. Would it be good to have them in the squad ahead of him? Yes, does it actually make that big a difference? No, not really.

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We showed him recognition by picking him for over a year when he wasn't good enough. If he wants a place in the squad he needs to bring something to the table that benefits Ireland, there is literally nothing he brings. This devaluing of caps is one reason why we are where we are as a nation. He's a L2 player so should be nowhere near the squad.

All McClean has done is stink the place out for the last year, to reward him with yet another game or 2 to stink the place out show's just how much chaos we are in. If we are serious about improving as a nation then players like McClean need to be shown the door.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Regardless, I don't know why you think McClean is keeping a forward out of the squad.

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Thank you. I thought i was losing it reading through the exchange.

Us improving as a footballing nation does not hinge on picking McCLean or whatever fringe players get picked for the senior squad. The work that needs to be done to improve us as a footballing nation needs to be done far away from the senior squad.
In the overall picture of Irish football, picking McClean this week doesn't make any difference to us improving as a nation.
I think you're placing far too much significance on this, it's really not that big of a deal.

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Originally Posted by WexCar.

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While he is not good enough anymore to warrant a squad place, picking him for a meaningless game is a small price to pay to show recognition for his loyalty and service to the Ireland team. After all, he has over 100 caps for his country, and it does send a message to the other players that their efforts are appreciated. It is far too easy to disregard this element of the game, they are people too and I won't be too quick to dehumanise the process.

At the end of the day not getting minutes in one meaningless friendly, that will also be the last game for the manager, will not negatively impact the development of any of these younger players who in other circumstances would maybe be in the squad. Would it be good to have them in the squad ahead of him? Yes, does it actually make that big a difference? No, not really.

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The Republic of Ireland is in bad need of a Hooley.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

The Republic of Ireland is in bad need of a Hooley.

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Most definitely

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Originally Posted by WexCar.

Us improving as a footballing nation does not hinge on picking McCLean or whatever fringe players get picked for the senior squad. The work that needs to be done to improve us as a footballing nation needs to be done far away from the senior squad.
In the overall picture of Irish football, picking McClean this week doesn't make any difference to us improving as a nation.
I think you're placing far too much significance on this, it's really not that big of a deal.

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It's just latest example of why we are such a laughing stock in football. Evan the French commentators a few months ago were laughing at the idea of us picking a L2 player.

McClean has precisely nothing to add to Ireland yet we pick him anyway...

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Originally Posted by CSAD

It's just latest example of why we are such a laughing stock in football. Evan the French commentators a few months ago were laughing at the idea of us picking a L2 player.

McClean has precisely nothing to add to Ireland yet we pick him anyway...

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James McClean is a Die-Hard.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

James McClean is a Die-Hard.

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Being a die hard doesnt offer Ireland anything unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Thank you. I thought i was losing it reading through the exchange.

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Yep. I mean - and here's a mad suggestion - but Kenny could call up both McClean and Armstrong.

But I don't think he will, or should. Armstrong isn't good enough yet.

Anyways, it seems at this stage it's everyone against one, so I'm happy to move on!

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Yep. I mean - and here's a mad suggestion - but Kenny could call up both McClean and Armstrong.

But I don't think he will, or should. Armstrong isn't good enough yet.

Anyways, it seems at this stage it's everyone against one, so I'm happy to move on!

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If Armstrong, who's played 15 games and over 800 minutes of championship football, isn't good enough then how the hell is McClean?

How can we started preparing for the NL next year and WCQ in 2025 when we are already wasting 1 of our matches on giving another cap to a player who should have been cut years ago really.

The only thing McClean can add to his record is being the worst player to play for Ireland in their worst campaign for god know's how long, an impressive record to have.

Sure ~ We'll have a new messiah soon ( hopefully )

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Originally Posted by CSAD

The only thing McClean can add to his record is being the worst player to play for Ireland in their worst campaign for god know's how long, an impressive record to have.

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Well that's clearly nonsense anyway. McClean's been ok this campaign. Certainly better than, say, anyone in the centre of the park. Here's a site which gives match ratings for all our games (and lots of other games too) and has McClean third on the list, albeit his man-of-the-match 9.5 rating against Gibraltar skews it a bit (as it does for McGrath, who played two of his three games against Gibraltar)

Still, quite clear he's not the remotely worst player to have played for us this campaign. Of those who have played more than 90 minutes, the list notes Collins, Molumby and Idah as our three weakest performers, and I think that's quite reasonable, all things considered.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Well that's clearly nonsense anyway. McClean's been ok this campaign. Certainly better than, say, anyone in the centre of the park. Here's a site which gives match ratings for all our games (and lots of other games too) and has McClean third on the list, albeit his man-of-the-match 9.5 rating against Gibraltar skews it a bit (as it does for McGrath, who played two of his three games against Gibraltar)

Still, quite clear he's not the remotely worst player to have played for us this campaign. Of those who have played more than 90 minutes, the list notes Collins, Molumby and Idah as our three weakest performers, and I think that's quite reasonable, all things considered.

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If you say so. He is the player playing at the lowest level of any player we capped during this campaign so it's a fair assumption.

Answer me this, how does giving a 35 year old who plays in L2 such as McClean benefit Ireland in anyway going forward?

This is all so ridiculous.

If you’re playing wing backs, then he should arguably be your first choice. Enda Stevens was a disaster against the French and is effectively done. Robbie Brady’s body is banjaxed. Ryan Manning finally put in a decent performance for Ireland in the second half against Greece and is probably the best option - but he was poor against the Netherlands and very poor against Bulgaria a few years back in his only competitive start before the Gibraltar game last month. Meanwhile Bagan, Roughan, Adaramola, Furlong - none of them are close to being ready.

You can call him a league 2 player and he technically is but he was a championship player a few months ago and it’s not like his real level has dropped that significantly. Also the idea that total commitment is a given at this level is just bull****. He’s the most committed player I’ve ever seen playing for Ireland. He’s taken painkilling injections against his club’s advice, he’s played with broken bones and chronic issues - he’s gone on the tours to America when every other senior player was pulling out. If every player was as dedicated and committed as he was, we’d do so much better - and he is an example for everyone to look up to.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

If you say so. He is the player playing at the lowest level of any player we capped during this campaign so it's a fair assumption.

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Your assumption takes in nothing at all of what's actually happened on the pitch though. Which is kinda important.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Answer me this, how does giving a 35 year old who plays in L2 such as McClean benefit Ireland in anyway going forward?

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It doesn't. And equally it doesn't harm us going forward by giving one last send-off to an exceptional servant down the years.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

This is all so ridiculous.

If you’re playing wing backs, then he should arguably be your first choice. Enda Stevens was a disaster against the French and is effectively done. Robbie Brady’s body is banjaxed. Ryan Manning finally put in a decent performance for Ireland in the second half against Greece and is probably the best option - but he was poor against the Netherlands and very poor against Bulgaria a few years back in his only competitive start before the Gibraltar game last month. Meanwhile Bagan, Roughan, Adaramola, Furlong - none of them are close to being ready.

You can call him a league 2 player and he technically is but he was a championship player a few months ago and it’s not like his real level has dropped that significantly. Also the idea that total commitment is a given at this level is just bull****. He’s the most committed player I’ve ever seen playing for Ireland. He’s taken painkilling injections against his club’s advice, he’s played with broken bones and chronic issues - he’s gone on the tours to America when every other senior player was pulling out. If every player was as dedicated and committed as he was, we’d do so much better - and he is an example for everyone to look up to.

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Roughan is playing at a higher level than McClean and actually been playing as a wingback…if he’s not ready what does that make McClean?

I’m sorry a L2 35 year old is not our best LB, you and McClean should get a room at this rate tbh…

It is a given though, the minimum I would expect from a player is being committed to the cause, and I’m sorry but for all his commitment the rest of his game is severely lacking and once he decided to play L2 he should have been cut from the squad.

The fact we are looking to honour players when we’ve just come through a campaign losing 6 from 6 games just shows how much of a laughing stock are. If we are serious about improving we need to stock this emotional guff of honouring players just because they showed up and actually focusing on the future.

Every player in the squad is a Premiership,Championship,Eredivisie, Serie A level player and then you have McClean who’s a 35 year old playing in L2, he has absolutely no business being in this squad.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Your assumption takes in nothing at all of what's actually happened on the pitch though. Which is kinda important.


It doesn't. And equally it doesn't harm us going forward by giving one last send-off to an exceptional servant down the years.

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And there’s the point, he brings nothing to the table as a player so why does he deserve a send off? Has he been an exceptional servant, what does he do other than run around like a headless chicken and deliver SH!t crosses into the box? Just because he cares more than others he should get a send off? Just award him with a “you tried” trophy pre kick off and let him fly back to L2.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

And there’s the point, he brings nothing to the table as a player so why does he deserve a send off?

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He doesn't bring nothing to the table though, however many times you repeat it. He's actually been one of our better performers this campaign. He's had better campaigns sure - top scorer in 2018 for example, with four huge away goals. Simply wouldn't have made the World Cup playoffs without them. And I'm sure it's a boost to have had such a driven character in the dressing room the past 11 years. If we had more players like him, we'd be in a better place, and that deserves acknowledgement.

Your bias here is bizarre, from wanting a forward with one senior goal to his name included instead, to saying he's been our worst player this campaign simply because of the level he's now playing at (and ignoring his actual performances), to asking irrelevant questions and then ignoring the answers (How does it benefit us having him in the squad going forward)

Much a do about nothing ~ Once more unto the breach, Dear James !

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

He doesn't bring nothing to the table though, however many times you repeat it. He's actually been one of our better performers this campaign. He's had better campaigns sure - top scorer in 2018 for example, with four huge away goals. Simply wouldn't have made the World Cup playoffs without them. And I'm sure it's a boost to have had such a driven character in the dressing room the past 11 years. If we had more players like him, we'd be in a better place, and that deserves acknowledgement.

Your bias here is bizarre, from wanting a forward with one senior goal to his name included instead, to saying he's been our worst player this campaign simply because of the level he's now playing at (and ignoring his actual performances), to asking irrelevant questions and then ignoring the answers (How does it benefit us having him in the squad going forward)

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What has he actually dont this campaign, Think back, what moments did he have?

Yes he was worthy of a send off in 2018, not now. It sure as hell wasnt a boost in the last 2 campaigns so not so sure abut that. Im sorry but being driven isnt enough.

The forward who's playing 2 divisions above McClean and is 15 years younger so has more growth you mean? I like how you've conveniently picked that one example and ignore that ive pointed out 4-5 others who are more deserving aswell, if not more.

Well look at it, all the other players are premiership or championship standard players and then you have McClean who's in L2, he's totally out of place being in this squad. Being driven isnt enough reason to be included.

I'm ignoring it because you havent answered the question, you've still yet to explain how including him improves Ireland going forward. After a campaign where we've lost (likely) 6 games from 6 I'd hope we would be focusing on improving for the next campaign right away rather than wasting our first game post ECQ's by wasting our first friendly acknowledging a mediocre L2 player just because he's "driven".

Move on CSAD, it's getting tiresome. You've said your peace

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Roughan is playing at a higher level than McClean and actually been playing as a wingback…if he’s not ready what does that make McClean?

I’m sorry a L2 35 year old is not our best LB, you and McClean should get a room at this rate tbh…

It is a given though, the minimum I would expect from a player is being committed to the cause, and I’m sorry but for all his commitment the rest of his game is severely lacking and once he decided to play L2 he should have been cut from the squad.

The fact we are looking to honour players when we’ve just come through a campaign losing 6 from 6 games just shows how much of a laughing stock are. If we are serious about improving we need to stock this emotional guff of honouring players just because they showed up and actually focusing on the future.

Every player in the squad is a Premiership,Championship,Eredivisie, Serie A level player and then you have McClean who’s a 35 year old playing in L2, he has absolutely no business being in this squad.

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I've watched Roughan play a lot. He's not ready for international football - if you think he is, you're wrong. McClean would be playing in the championship if it weren't for the fact that 95% of clubs view his poppy stance as toxic to their fan base (or their fan base as toxic to his poppy stance). As for that position, McClean despite being 35 <EDIT: McCLEAN IS 34> is in far far better physical condition than Stevens, Brady, Coleman etc.

For that position, you've got

a) Manning - looked good across a game and a half against Greece and Gibraltar
b) McClean - has done pretty well, certainly surpassed expectations, generally one of the better performances on the pitch
c) Stevens - cooked at 33
d) Brady - good footballer but totally crocked
e) O'Dowda - can't defender and very injury prone
f) Scales - at international level and high club level, he's a centre half. Struggled against Greece playing LB and looked much better in the centre. Also struggled for Celtic at LWB

g) Bagan - hasn't really kicked on but could be good enough in a season or two
h) Roughan - he's still very raw, still makes mistakes - he'd be ripped apart by good international players. Good tackler, good left foot, good in the air - but he's probably 2 years from being ready - and right now the technical deficiencies in his game would really hurt him attacking as well
i) Adaramola - very talented but career has stalled. Question marks over attitude but maybe unfounded.
j) Furlong - also could be good enough but the first step is to start playing football and maybe become first choice for the 21s

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

I've watched Roughan play a lot. He's not ready for international football - if you think he is, you're wrong. McClean would be playing in the championship if it weren't for the fact that 95% of clubs view his poppy stance as toxic to their fan base (or their fan base as toxic to his poppy stance). As for that position, McClean despite being 35 is in far far better physical condition than Stevens, Brady, Coleman etc.

For that position, you've got

a) Manning - looked good across a game and a half against Greece and Gibraltar
b) McClean - has done pretty well, certainly surpassed expectations, generally one of the better performances on the pitch
c) Stevens - cooked at 33
d) Brady - good footballer but totally crocked
e) O'Dowda - can't defender and very injury prone
f) Scales - at international level and high club level, he's a centre half. Struggled against Greece playing LB and looked much better in the centre. Also struggled for Celtic at LWB

g) Bagan - hasn't really kicked on but could be good enough in a season or two
h) Roughan - he's still very raw, still makes mistakes - he'd be ripped apart by good international players. Good tackler, good left foot, good in the air - but he's probably 2 years from being ready - and right now the technical deficiencies in his game would really hurt him attacking as well
i) Adaramola - very talented but career has stalled. Question marks over attitude but maybe unfounded.
j) Furlong - also could be good enough but the first step is to start playing football and maybe become first choice for the 21s

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He wouldnt & doesnt play in the championship because he's sh!t. Effort and drive might be enough for Ireland and Irish fans/pundits because most still think its 1994, most championship clubs in England thought live in the real/modern world and view it from a perspective of reality which is simply being driven isnt enough anymore, you actually need to be good at football which McClean isnt.

Crucially though he's a worse football than those you've mentioned.

Look, McClean has been a source of huge frustration for me over the years in terms of his technical ability - occasionally rash and reckless, occasionally a bit headless chicken, the occasional blooper of a cross - but in the same vein, he has also delivered some fantastic moments (Austria, Wales, his performance and then cross for McGoldrick against the Swiss to salvage a draw). As P-Stu points out, we qualified for the Euros because of his magic moments - 6 points right there in that campaign. Add to that his commitment, his passion and unrelenting Irishness and you have a player where you can and should forgive the imperfections, respect the total package and give him the send off he deserves. You're coming across awful petty.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Look, McClean has been a source of huge frustration for me over the years in terms of his technical ability - occasionally rash and reckless, occasionally a bit headless chicken, the occasional blooper of a cross - but in the same vein, he has also delivered some fantastic moments (Austria, Wales, his performance and then cross for McGoldrick against the Swiss to salvage a draw). As P-Stu points out, we qualified for the Euros because of his magic moments - 6 points right there in that campaign. Add to that his commitment, his passion and unrelenting Irishness and you have a player where you can and should forgive the imperfections, respect the total package and give him the send off he deserves. You're coming across awful petty.

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So basically he's been frustrating for being a bad footballer. So we should honour him because he scored 3 crucial goals?

These are all very desperate reasons for giving someone a send off. I would be hoping after such a horrendous campaign we'd be serious about improving things starting from the NZL game rather than giving someone a token cap because of his "unrelenting Irishness" when he's player 2 division down from every other player in the squad.

He lost the right for the send off he deserves when he dropped down to L2. After such a horrendous campaign I would be embarrassed with such a thought tbh.

No - you missed the point again but fair enough, will leave it there. Enjoy the pettiness.

Last warning CSAD, move on

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Originally Posted by SkStu

No - you missed the point again but fair enough, will leave it there. Enjoy the pettiness.

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Nope I got the point loud and clear. You say he should get a send off because

1.) He's a terrible footballer who has overachieved
2.) Had some fantastic moments, which loads of players have had yet havent had the opportunity of a great send off some of which who were better players.
3.) Having Unrelented Irishness

There are not enough reasons to get a send off. He should count himself lucky he was ousted years ago.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Last warning CSAD, move on

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Tell SkuSku that also, if he's going to continue replying to me I'm going to continue to respond. As a mod you are meant to be neutral, not biased to one side (which you clearly are based on this thread).

Does CSAD deserve a big send off for this effort ? !

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Crucially though he's a worse football than those you've mentioned.

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Simple question: who do you think did better against France? Stevens or McClean?

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Simple question: who do you think did better against France? Stevens or McClean?

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McClean, but its a low bar.

Do you think one game is going to change anything especially when both were mediocre at best? You arent helping you're case here my man.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

McClean, but its a low bar.

Do you think one game is going to change anything especially when both were mediocre at best? You arent helping you're case here my man.

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If what happens in one game doesn't change anything, especially when the games are of no consequence, then you agree it doesn't make a difference that he has been called up one last time.

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Originally Posted by WexCar.

If what happens in one game doesn't change anything, especially when the games are of no consequence, then you agree it doesn't make a difference that he has been called up one last time.

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You see that only works if he offers a potential benefit to Ireland. The question is what benefit to Ireland does a 35 year old who’s playing at a much lower standard to everyone else in the squad have? I’m struggling to see it.

It's a bit strange that there hasn't been any draws in 18 games in the group so far
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_E...up_B#Standings

Every team is a clear step above the one immediately below it.

Not encouraging for us, especially as we were seeded above Greece of course

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Originally Posted by CSAD

So basically he's been frustrating for being a bad footballer. So we should honour him because he scored 3 crucial goals?

These are all very desperate reasons for giving someone a send off. I would be hoping after such a horrendous campaign we'd be serious about improving things starting from the NZL game rather than giving someone a token cap because of his "unrelenting Irishness" when he's player 2 division down from every other player in the squad.

He lost the right for the send off he deserves when he dropped down to L2. After such a horrendous campaign I would be embarrassed with such a thought tbh.

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Absolute rubbish. McClean owes us nothing and has given us everything he has. He deserves a fantastic send-off. If all players were as committed, I dare say we'd be in a better position than we are.

He's well within his rights at the age he's at to take a move that suits him and his family

found randolphs comments very odd at the weekend. do people think anthony barry has a patent on the 3-5-2 formation or something? that hes the only lad on the planet who can coach it? kenny would still be picking the players. the formation doesnt work because we have pick two lads at wing back who are not athetic. barry wouldnt have changed that.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Absolute rubbish. McClean owes us nothing and has given us everything he has. He deserves a fantastic send-off. If all players were as committed, I dare say we'd be in a better position than we are.

He's well within his rights at the age he's at to take a move that suits him and his family

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absolutely spot on. would be a total disgrace if a player wasnt given a send off after breaking 100 caps.

If I was manager then McClean wouldn't have gotten 100 caps, purely on footballing terms. But that being said, he is a very decent fella, I admire his commitment and professionalism and he deserves his send-off. It's similar to how I felt about Kevin Kilbane, really.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Absolute rubbish. McClean owes us nothing and has given us everything he has. He deserves a fantastic send-off. If all players were as committed, I dare say we'd be in a better position than we are.

He's well within his rights at the age he's at to take a move that suits him and his family

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He did give everything, the issue is that just isnt enough. You are sadly letting emotions cloud you're judgment.

He is within his right's take the move he did. The issue is with that the consequences should be that he is no longer considered for selection for Ireland, any manager that was serious would cast him to the side when he moved to Wrexham.