It credibly can't though. I can only assume you're going by the 'Celtic' name and being form West Belfast, as those are the only things the two clubs have in common. There is no commonality or link.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
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It credibly can't though. I can only assume you're going by the 'Celtic' name and being form West Belfast, as those are the only things the two clubs have in common. There is no commonality or link.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
Apologies accepted. :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
(Amd while "Offensive" might be a bit strong, no-one likes to see their neighbours nipping over the fence to pinch apples from their tree, or eggs from their henhouse!)
Belfast Celtic [sic] are hardly West of the Bann!Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Meanwhile regarding Senior football in NI, West of the Bann clubs include Dungannon Swifts in the Premiership (plus Colreaine on the Bann!); the Championship has Ballinamallard, Dergview and Institute; and from the Premier Intermediate League, there are Limavady, Moyola Park and Tobermore.
While the two westernmost of the four 4th tier Intermediate leagues have another 13 teams from West of the Bann.
And while I don't know how many Junior teams from the West there are, it must be close to 3 figures, eg the Fermanagh and Western alone has 30 separate teams in three divisions plus the same in three Reserve divisions.
In addition, a surprising number of the players at those clubs actually come from the border regions of ROI, since football is often better organised on the NI side than in their home counties.
Compare that level of represntation with that of whole swathes of Connacht in the LOI system, for instance.
Meanwhile, the Ulster Senior League has, I believe, a grand total of seven clubs, including the Reserve teams of Derry City and Finn Harps.
Therefore if there was to be any migration of clubs across the border, it would actually make more sense for the USL clubs to move into the NI system, before their league dies on its arse. (I'm not suggesting such a move, btw).
There are excellent relations between clubs on both sides of the border - and long may it continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
But that would very soon disappear if the LOI were to start "enticing" IL clubs to switch.
I mean, Ukraine got along fine with Russia until, well, you know where I'm going! (Joke, btw)
"Under the Good Friday Agreement, Irish passports can be held by Irish citizens born on either side of the border."
CAS agreed that the above allows players from all 32 counties represent the Republic of Ireland.
If clubs identify with a 32 county Ireland, if they want to join the League of Ireland, if they meet the criteria and ifthe LoI/FAI are open to allowing them to join; should they be allowed to join?
Dear God... :pray:Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Are we leaving aside the fact that the FAI was admitted to FIFA with an explicit mandate for just the 26 counties? (Derry being a one-off exception for well-discussed reasons, none of which are close to relevant now)
Belfast Celtic left the Irish League for political reasons, less than 40 years before Derry City joined the League of Ireland. It's a pity there wasn't foresight in 1949 to allow Belfast Celtic join the League of Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The GFA arguably gives a new mandate for 32 county Republic of Ireland representation. Why exclude clubs who would associate with the Republic of Ireland?
Why not Glasgow Celtic Colts for the shiny, new Mega A Championship National League then?
The Good Friday Agreement has nothing to do with UEFA/FIFA
What you identify as or how excluded you feel don't really have anything to do with the real world.
Please, someone, make it stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Now.
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Meanwhile:
https://www.nifootballleague.com/all...ry-city-women/
Then Derry City should rejoin the IFA since the reason of their original expulsion/exemption no longer exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Fair enough - though they'd have to start at the bottom of the pyramid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Partizan
(Oh and while we're at it, does everyone on here know what a league pyramid is? ;))
Donegal Celtic were denied access to the Irish League for years. Lurgan Celtic also had problems with the IFA. An opportunity was lost to welcome them to the League of Ireland?
I'll keep discussion on these clubs to a minimum. The desire to join the League of Ireland should come from these clubs, if they are supporters of the Republic of Ireland and if they want to be part of a 32 county league.
Glasgow Celtic, welcome to the LOI Third Tier Championship A Mk II! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Alrighty, I'll try and carve up intermediate football myself then. This is built on the assumption that junior clubs want to play at a higher level.
Mid-West Football League.
Feeder leagues; Galway, Mayo,Roscommon, Combined Counties (Midlands)
Seems pretty straight forward to me, maybe some midlands clubs already in the LSL would object but the recent good performances of Connacht sides in the FAI Junior Cup should ease their worries.
North-West Football League.
Feeder leagues: Sligo & Leitrm, Donegal, Inishowen, Monaghan & Cavan.
Essentially just the USL plus Sligo & Leitrim.
Promotion and relegation should be easy enough seeing as it's only four feeder leagues in each. Idk enough about Leinster & Munster to pontificate on those leagues, but I really wish the LSL would do a bit of a rebrand. Cut this Major 1A Premier Senior Alliance Tuesday crap and just have a single Premier Division, no day of the week mentioned please. It'd be nice if everything below that was simply first, second, third etc.
The opening post of a 2005 thread entitled: "Potential New EL Teams"
"The thread on re-election to the first division got me thinking about potential areas/clubs for new EL clubs. Kildare Countys recent addition has been a success and they are certainly a positive addition to the league. With good community backing there is certainly a few potential areas/clubs who could also be an addition to the league.
Mullingar currently have two teams competing separately in the Under 21 EL which would suggest the potential is there.
The Kerry League and Mayo League have also got teams at EL under 21 level and perhaps places such as Tralee/Killarney or Castlebar might have the population to be able to sustain a local team.
The Wexford league are making great strides at underage level under the astute guidance of Mick Wallace.
And perhaps other towns/citys such as Ennis, Cavan and or in Tipp (in Thurles/Roscrea or Nenagh) would have the potential as well.
Also with the growing population of Dublin satelite towns there could be the potential for an EL team in the likes of Navan, Naas, Maynooth and Wicklow Town.
Obviously forming an EL team from scratch would be no easy task, and huge work and investment would be required. But it would be great to see the EL diversify a little (especially with there being only ten teams in Division one)."
https://foot.ie/threads/26166-Potent...l+new+EL+Teams
Haven't we seen this movie before?
😉Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
Very sensible. An extra step would be for your North-West and Mid-West leagues to then to offer promotion to one Western League.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
Munster could have a South-West League (Clare, Kerry and 2 Limerick district leagues) and a South-East League (2 Tipperary district leagues and 2 Waterford district leagues). An extra step here then would be for the South-West and South-East leagues to then to offer promotion to one Southern League. As you say, these structures would require a desire from district leagues to play at a higher level.
Summer football?Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
Winter football?
Both?
That's where the FAI should step in, as they did with senior football in the early 2000s, saying there would be a short transitional season in the autumn, in order for all the intermediate and junior leagues to align to the summer football calendar.
Probably both, leaving a permanent gap between senior and intermediate. Nobody will be happy, the earth will keep spinningQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I'm pretty sure they are members of both the IFA and the FAI ? Hence their women can play in the north.Quote:
Originally Posted by Partizan
Obviously what the LOI really needs is to lose another club.
What do you believe were the reasons why Dery City left the IL btw? Given that the reasons why Bohs and Shels left the IL in 1921/22 arguably no longer apply either, I suspect you haven't thought this through entirely :D Losing one LOI club to the north would be careless. Losing 3 would be a calamity.
Any district leagues offering promotion to the same league should align their seasons to be the same for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The FAI have made noises that they want to increase the geographical spread of the youth leagues. If a third tier comes about, it should allow applications from non league entities in the youth leagues, e.g. any region that might try and replicate what Kerry FC are trying to do. For this reason the mooted third tier and the suggested promotion from district leagues to intermediate leagues can offer a dual pyramid approach.
that'd make for one hell of row.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
I believe it's been FAI policy to switch everything to calendar year for some years now but when the DDSL took advantage of the post-Delaney meltdown to unilaterally move back to a winter season, that holed the plan below the water - and there's certainly been no love lost between that organisation and the FAI in the meantime.
And the LSL recently voted comprehensively against a switch to a calendar season.
So that's the biggest underage and adult leagues (by a large margin, in both cases) who'd need to perform spectacular about-turns
The LSL rejecting the calendar season is a vote that they are not seeking promotion to the League of Ireland. Let them be. Promotion from district leagues to intermediate leagues can coexist with a separate third tier. It's the lie of the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsie
I think you're dead right, Legendz.
Let intermediate and senior football run parallel to each other for a while. In the meantime we can resurrect the A-Championship and hopefully a combination of reforms making intermediate football stronger and properly regional combined with a strong A-Championship will make clubs actually want to climb the ladder.
Or maybe not, maybe the intermediate clubs will be happy as big fish in small ponds for ever. In that case we're better off with intermediate leagues that atleast have a proper geographic spread. Lord knows how many good players have been lost in Connacht since the CSL was abandoned.
The "aim" for the proposed third tier has now been officially postponed until 2024:
https://twitter.com/OCowzer/status/1550819477092171776
I am shocked.
It'd be interesting to see if there's been any real progress towards it in the background at all.
I am also flabbergasted at this news. I suppose it gives Irish Sea an extra year to get their house in order.
Not surprised at all to be honest. It was all too quiet on that front in the past few months. When the news came through that Kerry FC are looking for a FD license for next year, with no official word on the third tier in that context, it already looked like there won't be a third tier in 2023.
Should I hold my breath for 2024? I'm not sure...
If any new sides move up to the U19 league in 2023, that would indicate they're considering senior status - that said, can't imagine anyone bar Kildare being prepared for that at present.
Dropping the Klub part of their name should be a requirement for any Kildare plans to step up.
As the old saying goes 'A League of Ireland third tier is the future - and always wil be'.Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
Kouldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadloserkid
The fai should spend the next year kicking the leinster senior league and DDSL suits into a calender year. Time for the association to actually run football in ireland. Whatever it takes to make the suits see sense
The LSL chairman, was on the board for a time at FAI nua, during that initial transition phase, but then lost his seat, and also lost the election for President (or Vice?). He now seems to have beef with the FAI, and was asking pointed questions from the floor at the FAI AGM last weekend.
So while he definitely seemed open to the idea of a calendar year season, I don't be amenable to strong-arming.
(but you're entirely correct in your general point)
Shamrock Rovers are the only League of Ireland club with the ambition to field a reserve team?
Kildare, Carlow Kilkenny and Cavan Monaghan are only at U17 level. A Harps supporter doesn't see much of a future for Cavan Monaghan.
'23 has become '24 and will probably become '25 etc.
"All the leagues are connected by a promotion and relegation system, but in order to be promoted to the Eerste Divisie a club has to submit a solid business plan to be approved by the Royal Dutch Football Association, as well as meet certain stadium demands, and some other demands that the association stated for all the teams in the top two leagues."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_..._league_system Came across this in a random discussion, reminded me of our own situation.
I think a lot of people here are caught up in imitating the scots & the english. I particularly don't buy this idea that "everyone else has a pyramid and so should we" because it's not totally true and even if it was, is a system that works in a highly urbanized, 50 million plus country going to work in a much smaller country where the population is spread out?
What you describe in Netherlands IS a pyramid, just one adapted to their own particular circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
Re. the Business Plan, they presumably think it essential, since promotion to the 2nd level entails going from Amateur to Professional. It is not needed eg in England, since clubs in the 5th tier all f-t, and those in the 6th, 7th and 8th tiers etc are p-t.
As for the stadium requirements, exactly the same exists eg in England, where teams getting promoted from the 5th tier to the EFL need a grass pitch, in a stadium which holds at least 5k spectators. Initially 1k of these have to be seats, with this raised to 2k by the end of a third consecutive season at that level. And I'm pretty sure that simply bolting seats onto terraces doesn't count - i.e. they have to be properly installed and under cover etc, with proper turmstiles, exits, toilets and catering facilities etc.
Meaning that since Harrogate Town gained promotion to the EFL for season 2021/22, they've needed to spend £3.4m upgrading their stadium and pitch to the required standard, while ground-sharing with Doncaster until the minimum work was completed:
https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2...-improvements/
"A much smaller country where the population is spread out", is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
Scotalnd has just 400k more people than ROI, but is also more spread out, while NI has only 40% of the ROI's population, albeit with greater population density [insert own joke here].
Both easily maintain a footballing pyramid.
And football is the number one sport without a doubt in Scotland. They also have most of the population concentrated in the lowlands, it's much more urban country than Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I suppose the dutch do have a pyramid, with a large landing area right before the top where most clubs just soak up the sun rather than going up.
True, but even with that obvious advantage, the game in Scotland is so MUCH biiger than in ROI, no matter how you measure it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
While NI has equal competition to ROI from GAA and Rugby, and arguably more from Hockey and Cricket, albeit that those last two team sports are pretty minor. (And we "lost" Derry City, a big club in a big-ish city).
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
The 7 eastern counties of Louth, Meath, Dublin, Kildare, Wickloe, Carlow and Wexford account for over 3.3m of ROI's population of 5m, while only covering a small proportion of its landmass. This must be at least as concentrated as the Scottish Lowlands, and rather more than the Central belt, which I'd say is the Scots equivalent.
Maybe, but the point is that those clubs who do want more than just to sunbathe have a structure which allows them to do just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUFCghost
Meanwhile, Dutch football was wholly amateur until 1954, when the Eredivisie was formed, itself mostly semi-pro to start with. Which considering they were winning European Cups by the mid-70's, shows just how quickly they progressed..