Jeff Hendrick put McClean nearly through on goal with a lovely move on the edge of the box to go with about five minutes to go. McClean lost the ball and Hendrick sprinted the full length of the pitch back to the Irish penalty spot to cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Exactly Hendrick made some very timely interceptions too. A couple he probably could have done better with but he didn't do too badly tonight. It's funny how some people can only see one players wrong and another rights regardless of how they perform. I'm aware people probably think that with me and Connolly but I've always thought Hendrick did so little for us however tonight he did some good things and some very good interceptipms at vital times. Connolly however :D
2024 is 3 years away our best performers of Egan, Duffy Doherty and Coleman will be 32+ it's not like we can easily just replace these. Be careful wishing away campaigns for some exotic fruit that we might never get to taste.
Heartbreaking loss. I always get so depressed after senior losses that I don’t really want to write anything.
Big performances across the pitch. Hopefully it’s a performance indicative of the improvements made.
I genuinely think with this new format with 3 games in a window, it takes new managers longer to get their ideas across. Ireland flew out on Sunday night. Trained on Monday, some having played on Saturday. Then can’t do much on Tuesday as it’s the day before the game. Game on Wednesday. Recovery Thursday. Nothing too intense on Friday, as it’s the day before the game. Saturday game. Sunday recovery. Monday day before game, so nothing serious. Tuesday game. You’re basically cramming everything into a window which is a too tight to work on anything in training and I think it hinders the ability to prepare and get ideas across.
In the olden days per-Covid, you’d have camp starting on Monday, the first game at the weekend and the second game on Tuesday or Wednesday. It was far more civilised and you had a full week to work with players before the games started
You'll get no argument from me. The officials were awful, truly awful. Take for instance the O'Shea / Ronaldo incident before the penalty - O'Shea, according to the rules deserved a yellow for kicking the ball away, but Ronaldo should have been given red for striking the Irish player. They are the rules as written by FIFA but the referee and both of his assistants were all simultaneously looking the other way, as they were for most of the evening. That was just one of a few questionable incidents on the night.Quote:
Originally Posted by da bishop
That is true. But his lunge on the Portuguese player for the penalty was more than a counterweight. Overall I thought he was poor.
Are you after replying to your own post there?!
Thought Jeff was good tonight worked so hard and was tidy on the ball. That playing as an 8 is his position he is so lost when played as a 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Be interesting to see if mcgrath can bring guile to things on Saturday when we will hopefully be trying to make the running and will not have oceans of space on the counter. Really hope we stick with 2 up top keep that partnership that looked promising tonight . If he is not going to stay with a back 5 then hopefully we get a narrow 4 in midfield behind that front 2
certainly looks that way. var will surely have a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I tried to have a **** with my left hand at 16. Couldn't manage it. I've kept trying over the subsequent 24 years and still can't manage it.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Stephen Kenny isn't a good live interviewee. He wasn't 20 years ago, and isn't today. But I dare it hasn't held him back, just like my ability to lob one off with my left hand hasn't held me back either.
seconded. Would advise to reduce the number of channels to reduce the buffering though.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I've been one of Kenny's biggest critics, but anyone giving him grief after that needs to wise up.
It was, to a man, a heroic performance against a world class side playing who were lucky to have 12 men on the field.
Bazunu - 9.5 - Drop's half a point for almost throwing one in at the end of the first half, but otherwise faultless. Hell of a save from the peno. How he didn't get the MOTM award is beyond me.
Coleman - 8 - Tremendous energy for a guy who isn't a youngster anymore. Led by example.
Duffy - 8 - Looks back to his best.
O'Shea - 6 - wasn't on long, but never put a foot wrong. Unlucky to pick up what looks like it could be a bad injury, but would really want to kop himself on over that business with Ronaldo.
Omobamidele - 8 - Solid as a rock when he came on. If anything we got better for having him there. Looks to the manor born in international football.
Egan - 8 - Great jump for the goal. He's one of the senior members of the squad now, and he gave a performance to reflect that.
Doherty - 9 - Our problem down the left is a problem looks solved.
Cullen - 8 - One of the first names on the teamsheet now
Hendrick - 7 - Not his best, but not his worst. One of his better performances of recent times, but I fear the player who lit up Euro 2016 is gone forever. Never a penalty though.
McGrath - 8 - I really really like what i've seen of this guy. Destined for a far higher level than St. Mirren.
Connolly - 8 - I was sitting watching the game with my brother who said there's a hint of Shaqiri about Connolly. He wasn't wrong.
Idah - 9 - Led the line like an old pro.
Much more importantly, it was the first game when i think the youngsters shrugged off the imposter syndrome. It didn't looks like a bunch of old pros trying to see the kids through the game. Everyone was just doing their job.
Real progress. All we have to do now is beat Azerbaijan
Im nowhere near capable of writing much. Its about as sickened as Ive been with a football result in years. Weirdly Im surprised that I can still feel so p1ssed off by it, I thought those days were behind me. To me there is a genuine feeling that we were great tonight but robbed of at least a deserved draw by a horrific referee.
There is clear progress in this team, its far from perfect but we are absolutely on the right track. We've got some super young players and with hopefully another couple of additions we are starting to look like a football team again. I thought Idah in particular was sensational in his hold up play, work rate and skill levels at times. I really think hes got the makings of a top class player.
I've a terrible feeling that the invisible hand of Nike was holding the whistle at times tonight. Commercially, we're a much more appealing opponent for the record to go against than Qatar (who they play next). The football world still considers us to be a proper footballing country for some reason.
Finally, someone managed to get me to laugh since the final whistle went. Who else but Kingers, you wonderful w@nker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Those ratings are a bit high to be honest backs!
Connolly was poor; just outclassed. I'd give him a 5. Bazunu - saved the penalty but gave it away too. His fumble nearly cost us, and booting the ball down the pitch after his save in the 94th minute did cost us. It's the last minute of the game; you have to keep possession. Had surprisingly little to do, partly because the centre-backs were great (and they had to be) - and a scoring centre half was the obvious choice for man of the match for me. Idah - had some good touches but found it hard to get into the game. Wasn't for want of trying, but it wasn't a 9 performance.
I think Portugal being so poor has to be acknowledged as a factor - you'd be looking at 5s for them on average, and 7s for us.
The referee had already warned Bazunu about time-wasting, possibly more than once; i dont think he could play it to feet either (his or our defenders) if i am thinking of the same incident. I think he comes away from tonight with plenty of credit. There was a lot he did very well.
I find it hard to criticize any of the players tonight, or the manager. Just very sickening to lose it like that. The positives have to have been the emergence of Omobamidele, McGrath and Idah as more than viable international options. In addition to O'Shea, Bazunu and to some extent Connolly under Kenny's tenure. That is significant. Cullen, Doherty, Duffy, Coleman and Egan were very good for most of the game. I agree with those who thought Hendrick was solid and that McClean is done for at this level. Bad for the goal and should have done better with his chance (for example, if he had gone across the keeper there is a chance the keeper parries it out to our other two attackers that were in there - poor).
If we can get a couple of wins in the next week then this window has been a strong positive in the Kenny era. There are really positive signs all round and a bright future for this management team and bunch of players.
Referee was an absolute bell end.
Gtfo of town you absolute spoofer! ha ha haha hahahahaha!Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Talk about opportunism. Quote the whole bit. Yer worse than the sun.
"Arguments based on this fallacy typically take two forms:
As a straw man argument, it involves quoting an opponent out of context in order to misrepresent their position (typically to make it seem more simplistic or extreme) in order to make it easier to refute. It is common in politics.
As an appeal to authority, it involves quoting an authority on the subject out of context, in order to misrepresent that authority as supporting some position"
Good analysis stu. Looking forward to hearing eiramblers in the morning. Agree with Canadian stu about needing to get the wins from the next two. It's imperative. No more hard luck stories, positivity required and bring about that change with wins.sQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It was decent counter-analysis alright from the pineapple one. But then again most analysis is better than “we should have just man marked Ronaldo after he scored the first goal”… :D LOL just messin
FYI most games including this one are on ESPN+ in the US. $5.99 per monthQuote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
There's the full quote so.
All you ever do is see the wrongs in players!Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Andy Omabamidele made his international debut, as a first half substitute, before he's made his PL debut, and was outstanding - almost flawless. Nathan Collins is going to be no less impressive when he makes his bow. The one thing we've been able to do is constantly churn out good centre-backs.Quote:
2024 is 3 years away our best performers of Egan, Duffy Doherty and Coleman will be 32+ it's not like we can easily just replace these. Be careful wishing away campaigns for some exotic fruit that we might never get to taste.
And your quote there is in my opinion highlighting exactly what you either can't or don't understand. We cling onto too many players for too long. It's nothing to do with loyalty (or lack of it), it's to do with bad planning, and we witness it time and time and time again. It's not the time for it now given what we just watched unfold, but there are serious flaws being constantly illustrated (including tonight) by some of those you mentioned as our best performers.
We were done under McCarthy Mk II - done. We were done under O'Neill. No progress and some dross performances. We're all hopeful - or at least should be - but anyone who was expectant of being involved in the next World Cup should have a got two slaps in the head. one with the hand coming forward, and repeated as the hand swings back. We've zero control over the careers of our players. None. So either plod along with the same dross that was either not good enough to begin with, or those that have plateau'd, or bring through new players - who may not be ready - so that they will have some experience by the time the dross are gone anyway. And by doing that, you won't exert control over their careers, but perhaps you'll give them an empahsis to seek football somewhere, or perhaps a club manager will decide to put similar faith into an international. All Kenny has done has been to accelerate a process that was going to happen, which was in itself accelerated by Covid and his own promotion.
Idah was outstanding tonight. You, and some others will focus on Connolly's negatives - being dispossessed, or going down easy for the first penalty. His second miss/penalty appeal should have been scored. The only excuse - a valid one - is that he is playing the minutes required to get used to taking those chances - because he should have scored it. But if you can't see what he offers to the three lads playing in midfield, then I suggest you re-evaluate how you watch football, or how you watch the Irish team, because once he went off, we completely stopped having an outlet in their half to complement the movement of Idah, and their full backs were able to literally plank themselves wide in our half, thus drawing us deeper into a hole. It's how the two bloody goals came about ffs. I don't believe that Shane Long could have played the role that Connolly played tonight, and James Collins sure as hell can't. Troy Parrott is absolutely not that player either.
I can't wait to see Idah and Connolly with Parrott behind being fed by a midfielder who thinks positively. And who knows, maybe it won't be Connolly. Maybe it'll be Ev Ferguson and Idah with Parrott behind. Maybe it'll be some random 2 or 3g-er who none of us have heard of.
What the hell else was he supposed to do? He was put in an impossible position due to a misplaced pass from a teammate. As it is, he played the ball and arguably it might not have been a penalty. He had no choice but to dive in, and if he hadn't it would have been 1-0 Portugal.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
wasnt a penalty that one the tv var showed
The lads ran themselves ragged. Portugal just had to wait for the last 20 minutes or so to really start taking us apart when the legs were gone and tired players stopped tracking Ronaldo. He'd have never gotten to those balls unchaperoned in the first half. That's a common sequence of events when a weaker team is playing up. It was a heartening performance overall; the anticipated thumping never materialised.
Positives tonight:
Good performance for 60-70 minutes.
Debut for Omobamidele. First start for McGrath. Both looked the part.
Any lingering doubts about Duffy after his annus horribilis are gone. That really leaves us stacked at centre half.
Idah. He could do with a goal, but it'll come.
Cullen had a great game, and we were due someone doing that in midfield.
Kenny's starting team was a good selection.
Negatives:
O'Shea's injury. Hopefully not so serious.
Connolly didn't look sharp enough. Maybe it's just lack of match sharpness.
We didn't have the bench to refresh the team late on, and Kenny's subs weren't too effective.
Bazunu was a mixed bag for me. Someone scored him at 9.5 a few pages back. That's silly: he made some bad errors, e.g. his hospital pass to Hendrick for the penalty is exactly the kind of poor judgement that has been used to judge Randolph as unfit for duty in a passing team. He made some excellent saves though and I think he's improved since his first cap, but I don't think we'd be as positive about him if we didn't so desperately need to see green shoots.
Hendrick was mixed too, but in an overall decent and energetic performance. I continue not to think he's remotely as bad as some people here seem to.
i ve got to tell you it has been a while since in a proper match all the calls go to the same team, outrageous. worst than the Henry hand, I hope your national tv make a case for that, everything was cooked, we made a mistake in the penalty...that the ref was so fast to award....... what's on the tv or media about this robbery?? I know Liam Brady should talk about it
If you're in the USA, ESPN+ is a steal for $5.99 a month. I was able to watch the second half on my phone at work while it was happening, and now I'm home and watching the first half on demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
On the game itself. It's really disappointing that our collective lack of minutes this season is what has been our undoing.
Hendrick, Idah, Connolly, Doherty, McClean.
It's not all rosy either. There's serious question marks about some of the decisions. In light of the above comment regarding playing time, should substitutes have been made earlier? Is it irrelevant given half of our team was going to be running on fumes by the hour mark anyway? Can't help but feel the game turned with the Connolly miss and relatively quick substitution. It removed a great outball, and in turn his replacement was atrocious - but perhaps as much down to lack of game time than anything else. At a time when we needed to at least have some pretence of trying to hold onto the ball, would Horgan - who has done very well for ireland as an impact sub - have been the better choice. Possibly/probably - it's irrelevant now. Once we decided that we were committed to the full retreat and clearly gassed - around the 70 min mark - would it have made more sense at that stage to sacrifice McGrath for a more destructive player such as Molumby or Arter?
Likewise Doherty. clearly in discomfort from the 65 min marker, and by all accounts uncomfortable throughout the day, would it have made more sense to bring in Manning at that stage? It seems like McClean was being prepped for Doherty, before Connolly got injured.
Looking ahead, I'm so happy I made the decision to go back for the Azeri game. I'm giddy at the thoughts of it. But make no mistake about it. Forget about points, position in the table, "pulling ourselves back into contention" - we need a performance (and type of performance) to build some momentum - for the short-term of this autumn, but also going into the Nations League. I'm not concerned about the morale sapping nature of defeat tonight - as referred to in a post above, I think plenty of fellas will look around them and see the imposter tag gone. And others in the squad will look at those guys and think they're equally as capable. So momentum is huge. But it is absolutely clear that we aren't going to be successful in sitting deep. How did we get into the position with an hour gone, leading a superb side in their own ground? By playing sensible football, with a bit of composure and solid defending, and keeping Portugal honest by spreading wide. Once we stopped doing that - and we did, either due to fatigue, or falling back on old habits. We've simply got to break that habit - it's suicide. It works once in a generation, but when it doesn't it's a killer. as we saw tonight, as we saw in Lyon. The circumstances around the team and minutes this season are a counter balance though. We need the momentum to carry through to Saturday, and then to Weds as well.
There's got to be doubts about Dara O'Shea's availability, along with the fitness of Connolly, Doherty, and Long is out too. I would hope to see Parrott come into the team, and would love to see McGrath loading the bullets for him. If doherty is unavailable, Ryan Manning (if we're going 352) needs to play LWB, or if we're 343 (what Azerbaijan were tonight) then possibly Horgan is a possibility. Cullen is a cert for the middle.
Bazunu,
Coleman,
Omabamidele,
Duffy,
Egan,
LWB,
Cullen,
Molumby*,
McGrath,
Parrott*,
Idah
*if Connolly unfit.
And Pineapple...to be fair to the previous previous manager, the Hampden hoodoo was broken about 4 years ago. Beating Austria and Wales in Vienna and Cardiff respectively deserve to be credited with what they are - significant away victories against higher seeds.
Yes it’s good value. I watched it all on iPhone at work. You can usually nab a few Irish playing in the championship games too, and some cup action. It increases to $6.99/month this month, but still excellent value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars
is there a chance fifa would take disciplinary sanctions on John Egan from what he said on the ref...
any info on that...is a question im asking
Echoing Kingdom’s summary above, but cruel result. Connolly was frustrating and needed to come off, but he was an effective out ball that we lost with the introduction of McClean. Maybe Horgan was the better choice in retrospect but it’s a choice between two L1 players and that ultimately proved the difference on the night – i.e. we don’t have the quality Portugal have to replace tired legs. Yes Kenny stumbles in interviews but he got the game plan right and he uttered out the word “heroic” which was the apt word to describe individual performances on the night. Hoping O’Shea’s injury is not bad and the C19 case is an isolated one …
I said it a few times in game last night but I'd like to give another post to Idah's performance. He bossed Ruben bloody Dias and Pepe like they were the Azerbaijan back two. How many times did he receive an awkward pass and cushion it beautifully before a turn or a lay off? His movement also seemed to be great and he always popped up where we needed him.
I hope Norwich acknowledge that performance and take action. I know it is difficult for them to drop Pukki due to his goalscoring record and the fact that they will struggle. But Idah deserves games to rack up goals because he seems to have a bit of everything else but a goal record. Which is fine - he's 20.
Christ. I repeat that. He's 20. I know he has a different skillset to a lot of younger players getting their game up top at 20 but that is nearly more impressive. I always reference Giroud and Drogba as players that he could be like. Grenoble and Le Mans, respectively, in Ligue 2 in France with zero goals is what they were up to at 20.
Also loved Andrew Omobamidele last night. Some great blocks and composure on the ball after being thrust into that. Deserves great credit too.
I read something during the week that the coaches at Norwich reckon he's better than Ben Godfrey was. He does seem to have a really high ceiling. Like Bazunu.
That's probably what is most exciting about some of the young lads we have. They have a high ceiling. I made a few points about Connolly and how he was wasteful in possession through poor decision making and consistent free seeking but I'll echo Kingdom's point on the outlet he provided and the little bit of momentum he always provided to our forward play. It was valuable. And that bit of variety between him and Idah probably were the reason for the pressure reducing from Portugal for the middle third of the game either side of half time. He also has clear areas to improve on so that's another one with a high ceiling. He might not maximise his potential at all at all. He's much less likely than Bazunu, Idah and Omobamidele anyway.
Cullen and McGrath are a little older (25 and 24?) But look good players for Ireland for the future and definitely could kick on to another couple of levels at club level. Maybe not to the top. But they have skillsets which are handy for us.
One point on O'Shea. His ankle was utterly mangled in that tackle it seemed. He didnt just go over it but he seemed to give it one serious additional turn after he had gone over it. Some man to get up and walk off the pitch. Wow. There is surely some damage in there that will keep him out a while but he's a tough man. Like him a lot.
The lads were really tired, legs gone, Ronaldo was roving all over the place, anyone who's watched Ronaldo knows what he can do and popping up late. Having an extra defender in there to man mark him or sit in that area, someone like Clarke with his experience is a good shout there , when we've clearly no interest in doing anything in attack for the last ten minutes is an obvious call. The gaps we left between the 6 yard line and 18 yard line were huge as we got more withdrawn and tired. Ronaldo did what he always does, and we let him - one way or another. What do you think Hendrick had been doing most of the game? Until he tired?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Well true - and I still count the France playoff too, which was a win over 90 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
But this would have been a proper away win. Austria and Wales were mid-level wins. Maybe Scotland too, if we're honest.
Anyways, all I did was jinx us, so...
Not sure if the warning for timewasting means anything? It's the 94th minute; you're not going to get sent off (side note - where did 5 minutes' injury time come from the in the second half? I genuinely didn't think we were timewasting that badly, and it's the only reason I can think of). But you have the ball and there's 60 seconds to go - you have to try keep possession. Instead we just booted the ball down the pitch, gave the ball straight back to them and they scored with the last kick. Not being able to hold onto the ball at that crucial stage cost us a point. OK, it requires the full-back to show for the ball as well and he was probably knackered (but then we'd just brought on fresh legs in Molumby - and could we not have brought on a fifth sub if legs were that gone I wonder?).Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
But I think in terms of the suggestion that Bazunu gets a 9.5 rating and man-of-the-match, it's a relevant point.
Portugal had 29 shots in that game and only 7 were on target - Portugal have some decent attacking players, so for me that stat alone screams out that centre-back was where to look for man of the match. And a shout-out too to the defensive work being done in midfield.
Aye, 12 yds there or thereabouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
So for those last ten minutes - who are you taking off, and not bringing on, to allow Ciarán Clark come in to shore things up?
Is it:
- Idah off, And not bringing on Collins, which means there is literally 10 men in and around our penalty area
- McGrath off, and not bringing on Molumby which means Portugal have clear overlaps on either side of the penalty area as we’ve conceded a body in the first pressure point in the middle
Bringing Ciarán Clark on last night would not have made a blind bit of difference. What Ronaldo did for the goal - grudgingly - was really special. Sita just inside the 6yd box and arcs his run back around Coleman. That’s almost impossible to defend with the right ball in, because the defender can’t get goalsife to block the run properly as to do that brings the entire defensive line back another 2 yds and essentially camps us on the goal line. The goals are prevented out wide and in the first line of the pressure/press. We simply didn’t do that.
We dropped too deep and invited an onslaught aerially. We did that for one of two reasons:
A - deliberately, because we were goosed on the left hand side with Doherty and Connolly carrying injuries and not match-fit enough for 90 mins
B - deliberately, because we were happy to take our chances in the air, given the strength of our two senior central defenders and our captains ability under a cross.
If it’s A, then there’s little to criticise. **** happens, and players will know they need to get football under their belt.
If it’s B, then we rolled the die and came up with a 2-1.
There’s a lot of talk of not getting what we deserved out of last night. I think we probably did get what we deserved, all things considered . The better team won, and our squad and management have earned serious kudos, and likely have got a stay of execution. We’d have all* taken that at 7:45.
*clearly not all of us ��
Matt Doherty was MOTM for me. Read the game perfectly, nice touches throughout, intelligent play to move the ball out of the defence. But strong MOTM cases for others as everybody upped their game – with Duffy’s diving head block symbolic of the individual heroics on the night.
Bazunu was jittery at times but context. 19yo playing Portugal away. You have too much of a hang up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Just on Molumby, he had a chaotic, headless five minutes on the pitch - not sure if fresh legs helped there. Options on the bench are limited.
So, the guy who sits two desks away from me with an empty desk between us due to COVID seating arrangements is Portuguese, a mid-20-something intern. I walk past him on way in and call him a Portuguese *****. In jest. I'm not sure immediately how the conversation developed but within a sentence or he revealed that he thought we were British. I looked incredulously at him and said we're not British. He then thought he was being clever and said, well not technically, but United Kingdom. I turned to another colleague and asked where we hire these guys from.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Robinson instead of McClean and Knight instead of Molumby. Those changes would have been so much better. Shows that we can't afford to be missing guys like that
And if McClean was due to come in for Doherty but for Connolly's injury then at what point does Manning overtake James for the left wing back pecking order?