Uninspiring stuff...expect similar v.Alba.
And no chance of 2nd.place now.
:(
Too many posers in that team too?
Need to concentrate on the basics FFS
Uninspiring stuff...expect similar v.Alba.
And no chance of 2nd.place now.
:(
Too many posers in that team too?
Need to concentrate on the basics FFS
Positives:
1) Yet another last minute goal. Without the three we've had, we'd be sitting on 4 points.
2) Second half performance, although I worry that it had more to do with Poland sitting back than us grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck but at least we dominated a half at home against a rival
3) We're still in the mix.
4) We got to the byline on numerous occasions.
5) Opposition had one shot on target (I think).
6) Fans got behind the team when given something to shout about.
7) Impact of McLean.
8) Poland are an average enough side like ourselves.
Negatives
1) One win against a main rival in a group at home in 12 years !
2) Two points dropped at home.
3) Bizarre selection of Given over Forde/Westwood - a keeper on form would have saved that goal. He almost got a foot to it.
4) Lack lustre first half.
5) Brady's two mistakes in first half almost cost two goals.
6) Constant over hitting of crosses.
7) A tired looking Robbie although he almost scored from a header and did work hard to close down their keeper resulting in a number of poor clearances.
8) Long balls by Given to a backline that towered over our forwards, Walters apart.
9) McCarthy anonymous for much of the game. The much maligned Whelan more effective.
10) Despite the dominance, only a few half chances created.
So we go to yet another "must win" game, this time against Scotland. History says we won't win this game but you know, despite all that, we will still go with the perennial optimism of the football fan that this time it will be different and....who knows.
did Keane nearly score that header? Despite hitting the post I never felt it had a chance of beating the keeper.
I don't think Given's selection was odd but I do think he should have saved it. It was as if he was positioned for a straight shot and wasn't ready for a straightforward dive to his right. That goal was avoidable on 3 counts.
I think Geysir was right. After we scored it was as if Poland went "balls" and nearly got through twice afterwards. Lewandowski wasn't far off connecting properly with that volley and they carved a back post opening that nearly gave me s heart attack watching.
I have a mix of feelings but overall we are still in it and a win over Scotland is now imperative.
Dunphy saying it was the first time since 2001 that we had beaten a team ranked higher than us in a qualifier, and Brady had to interrupt to tell him that we only drew was a funny one!
Two things stand out for me at this point.
We are going to 100% need to get something from the last game against Poland - probably a win.
There is nothing Robbie Keane can do at International level that Shane Long can't do twice as good.
The facts are we got away with it again last night.
I see no progression under MON, last min goals are saving him from further critisicum.
In all honest, does anyone really think we've improved in the last year?
At least Mr Trapattoni had a set way of playing and for quite a long time it did us well.
I really can't see us progressing under MON.
Many will say that we don't have the players, that may be true to a certain extent, but we're not as bad as many make out.
Good organisation, players playing in a system that suits them and the team and we can at least have a chance.
I also feel that MON has too many assistant coaches and backroom staff, all chipping in, that's not ideal.
There were more sitting in the dug out than in the singing section last night!
For me MONs a spent force, even more so with out Johno Robbo alongside him.
Under Mr Trapattoni we'd be all but qualified by now.
Be careful what you wish for fellas!
Try and keep the FAI-th!
Niall Quinn on Sky was saying post match that Long needs to start with Walters. Keane can then have a 20 minute run out if we need a goal.
Shane Long has to start, not bothered who partners him but he needs a run in the team. Hoolahan also has to start.
McGeady was god awful.
McCarthy and Whelan were extremely limited. Any midfielder who passes the buck by repeatedly passing the ball backwards when under no pressure doesn't deserve a start at international level. Watch how many times Whelan kills the momentum of an attack by going backwards.
Mr. O'Neill is a far better manager for us , ably assisted by Mr. Keane.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Hoolahan and Long should be the 1st names on the teamsheet.
Its been like this for the last 4/5 years. We are finally getting to that point. Pity time doesn't wait.
Long is now 28 and Hoolahan 33 in May.
Shocked to hear Long has 52 caps. How many of those did he actually start. Guessing around the 20 mark.
St Ledger
We were God awful in the first half but the 2nd half brought back a lot of good memories of how we can play. Don't be bitter because you aren't in the team anymore.
Our system under Trap involved hoofing it long, 8 men behind the ball and relying on Richard Dunne to take on Russia on his own.
No. We deserved at least a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Yes. We consisently play with more of the ball than we ever did with Trapattoni, which is an improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
I thought it was in from where I was sitting. Fabianski had to dive backwards and claw it off the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I agreed with Given's selection - he would've been in my team. But it's only fair to point out he should've saved it. I'm pretty sure Westwood and Forde would have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Ah well, at least I tried. I was half-right about Keogh at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I'm surprised by all the negativity. Yes, we needed a win and it's disappointing not to get it, and we did look blunt in attack even when we were battering them, but for the first time we showed an intent to play a more positive brand of football and, moreover, we got rewarded for it. We're fighting for third, realistically, but a play-off is better than nothing.
I knew Poland weren't the team people were building them up to be, but even so I was surprised by how bad they are. They play the sort of puke football Trap was blasted for, and they're a dishonest side. I'd fancy Scotland to do them at home because teams like Poland don't have the stomach or the heart when it's put up to them, and Scotland will be more prepared to exploit that than we were. I'd give us a shot of winning in Poland too.
Overall, Hoolahan had a mixed game but we're a different team when he's allowed to come into midfield and take the ball. It's the job McCarthy doesn't do enough of, but with somebody in there taking responsibility for the ball he and Whelan looked a lot more positive too. Brady had a tough night and was badly at fault for the goal, but he too showed character and a willingness to take responsibility. This 11, with maybe McClean and Long, deserves another chance.
that's harsh on given. I thought the pole finish was superb. not much shay could have done in my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'm hoping that last night demonstrated to MON that it we do need to drop Robbie for a home game i.e. the Scotland game in June. Long and Walters didn't fare that brilliantly in the away leg of that but I think they need another shot at it. Both can play as a central striker or on the right of a 4-2-3-1 so I think that system would suit them.
McGeady's rustiness and lack of game time showed last night. McClean's recent good club form also showed when he came in. That said, it was an ideal time to bring on McClean to use his power to drive at a tired Polish right-back.
Feel very sorry for Brady. The mistake was pretty emblematic of a winger playing at full-back i.e. he tried something but was in too dangerous an area to be trying it. I'm disappointed with it also because playing him there was a sign that we were willing to play attacking football so being punished for that willingness is a pity.
Have been recovering my thoughts from last night - my overriding feeling is bitter disappointment. Ultimately, I think we had to win last night and yet again we couldn't get over the line. Now we're angling for a play-off and another must-win we'll struggle to win. I think we're shot for France. And I fancied our chances last night more than I do against Scotland.
It's all the more galling because I thought Poland showed themselves up for what they are - a desperately medicore team outside one or two and an absolutely cynical shower to boot. Haven't been so infuriated by an away team at Lansdowne Road since Isreal in '05. All we needed was Dudu Aouate to make the night complete...
The second half was a highlight of MON's tenure so far. But despite all our possession, I thought our attacking play was far too fractured and frantic. In fairness to Poland, they played no football but were plenty organised, forcing us wide or long.
On the selection - aside from Brady, O'Neill picked the team I would've went with. So guess I can't complain! Ultimately, it wasn't perfect but it did show a lot more initative than under Trap. It was far more adventurous and it was a team to win the game.
Ultimately, I also think players have to take some responsibility if things don't work after that. I think the manager did well. He picked a team to win, and changed it thoughout to up the pressure on the Poles.
I don't at all buy the 'if only Long was on earlier' theory - in eight minutes he scored, miscontrolled a pass and gave away a stupid foul. He may have had one other touch. I think someone else mentioned it (SkStu?) but the player who made the real big impact, who changed the flow of the game, was James McClean, who was excellent when he came on. Long took his goal well, but he didn't change the pattern of the play. He has made a big claim to start from now on, and that's very welcome.
Some quick player thoughts:
Given - Had one save to make, should've saved it. He would've been in my team, but my view is other keepers (including two sitting on our bench) would have made it. Only fair to point that out since the debate rages on over our keepers. I have no doubt he's our number one for the campaign now though. His distribution was a very mixed bag as well, he was surprisingly slow to get the ball forward at times. It's undoubtedly an upgrade from Forde though.
Coleman - Did well, couple of shaky moments defensively aside. Some great forward running. Should've hit the target with that shot. Don't care if Robbie was standing in front of him with his jocks down, he has to hit the target.
Brady - Didn't work did it? At fault for the goal, uncertain in defensive, didn't really get to overlap and generally poor set pieces. Which is why he was picked in the first place.
Wilson and O'Shea - Good news, Lewandowski and Milik were quiet. Plus they helped the whole team by squeezing up iin the second half. Wilson could've have been more decisive for the goal though.
Whelan and McCarthy - Thought Glenn Whelan was very impressive, in his usual unspectacular way. With McCarthy, helped the defensive keep Lewandowski et al on a short leash. Was rightly hooked when we were chasing a goal. McCarthy did some great things, but was still too passive at times. I think he could be a lot braver.
McGeady - Poor. Looks short on form and confidence.
Hoolahan - Good, but I'm not ready to annoint a new saviour just yet. Cleverest attacking player in the squad by a country mile. BUT he gave the ball away cheaply half-a-dozen times in the second half. I thought he looked knackered as well. But he has to play for that extra ability alone.
Walters - I thought he did well in the first half, faded in the second (he also looked wrecked by the end). Didn't have an easy task going up against three physical Poles at every turn. But the big problem with Walters last night was that he almost looks like he's from a completely different team. We play long balls to his head but no one gets close to him for flick-ons or second balls. The team doesn't play to that strength. He's there as an extra physical option (and also because we have a smallish team) but we don't even attempt to make that option work as a team. For that reason, I'd bench him from now on. Can't see it happening though.
Keane - Quiet. Nearly scored from a header. Typical Robbie performance. If we're not going to play a traditional centre forward partnership (which we still were not doing last night, despite going 442) then he's going to be useless for almost 90 minutes, yet potentially able to score at any moment - the dilemma continues.
McClean - Defines cult hero at this point.
Long - We want him to score and he did. Deserves to start next time.
5 yellows last night. Anyone missing Scotland game?
Doc, how many home games did Trap win? How many times did we come from behind? How many leads did we squander?
I missed the game (stuck on a train); just saw the brief highlights on YouTube really.
Looks to me like Given was expecting a shot at the near post, and wasn't able to react quickly enough when it went the far post. He was hugely exposed by Brady, and I think it's understandable that he was preparing for a shot to one side. Decent finish from the Pole.
For Keane's header, I think he would have done better only another Irish player (is it Long?) gets in his way as he goes up to head. Means he can't really get enough power on it. Thought the Polish keeper had a straighforward save tbh; no need to let it hit the post.
Gem of an assist from Hoolahan.
A Polish mate texted that McShane could have been sent off with ten minutes to go for slapping an opponent?
Other than that, we're bottom of the four-team group this has now become. Not overly encouraging to be honest. June's game is the best chance to make up some ground; I think it's a must win alright.
Wikipedia's article on the group doesn't note any suspensions for us after last night (and it does have Poland's Glik missing their next game after being booked last night)
Probably because his teams have scored within the allotted time-frame. Last-minute goals are valid goals too, doc. You play for the full 90 minutes and O'Neill's teams certainly do that. You can surely appreciate that?Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
What system is that? Do you mean a return to the Trap days?Quote:
Good organisation, players playing in a system that suits them and the team and we can at least have a chance.
Why not? Perhaps he feels it gives him a broader outlook or ensures he can consider other perspectives. That shows flexibility and an openness to other ideas; they can be virtues too. Does he really have that many more than your average international manager anyway? I'm not sure, but Trap had Tardelli and even Staunton had Bobby Robson.Quote:
I also feel that MON has too many assistant coaches and backroom staff, all chipping in, that's not ideal.
How can you say that? What results would have been different for certain? Even if you replaced the loss in Glasgow with a draw, it certainly wouldn't have in an all-but-qualified position.Quote:
Under Mr Trapattoni we'd be all but qualified by now.
Apparently McCarthy gave Mila a little dig. At the game, Mila went down like he'd been shot. I didn't see anything happen. The BBC text commentary says McCarthy slapped him though and should've went.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I care not a jot, the Poles were an absolute cynical shower the whole night. Pulling, tugging, pushing, tripping and generally souring my relationship with that great country.
EDIT - Vine of it here, aye he could've been sent off (seen them given etc) but look at the absoute state of Mila going down like that...
Ref got that one right. It would have been embarrassing to see a player go off for that. A yellow card each and stop being children.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Didn't hear of any suspensions after the players were booked, neither from the commentaryteam nor post-match from the panel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
McCarthy raised his hand and slapped (nothing too forceful) a Polish player on the cheek with an open palm. The Polish player went down like an elephant had taken a swipe at him with its arse. I don't think the ref properly caught it though as convention seems to be to send players off for conduct like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Aye, was more unsporting than serious or violent. Yellow card was sufficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
James has made this his profile photo on Facebook:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...6b13c43dba633a
Great photo. :D
Haha, I see his newfound maturity lasted about two days.
Do you not see the contradiction in all that? Should have saved the goal, his distribution was poor and slow to get the ball forward. How is that an upgrade from Forde who has had an excellent campaign so far? And not wearing my blue and white glasses, Westwood has had a spectacular season so I see no justifiable basis for Given playing ahead of either. A split second faster reaction with his foot would have saved that goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I am not sure if you're saying that Robbie is useless for 90 minutes if he doesn't score?? He chased down their keeper and made him punt the ball in to touch on numerous occasions. Almost scored once and set up Coleman for a good opportunity. Not his most effective game by far but I have seen Long have ineffective games as well. Luckily the defender deflected the ball over the keeper because I am not convinced he would have scored either. Hero of the moment of course but swallows and summer come to mind.
@ OwlsFan
Pull the other one. Keane did not set Coleman up for a good opportunity. He was too slow to react to another goalscoring opportunity. Stop acting like it was an expertly executed dummy. He chased the goalkeeper down and made him punt the ball into touch once. He didn't even touch the ball in the entire first half. We were practically playing with ten men FFS.
You're honestly having a go at the person who scored our goal for "getting in the way" of Keane's header and picking holes in his goal? Christ...
There's no contradiction - I said his distritubtion was in an upgrade. It was, even if it wasn't great. Forde's is really poor. I was only talking about distrubution.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I'm probably Forde's biggest fanboy on here. To me he's done not much wrong and quite a lot right for Ireland. But I'd have picked Given for experience and leadership - for an extra edge for what he represents and he who is more than his actual current ability. I'm guessing that's why O'Neill went with him too.
I don't think he'll drop him now he's in.
I'm not saying that, not even close. I'm just saying he had a quiet game (which he definitely did) but he still nearly scored from the only opportunity he had. That's Robbie. For me, he's still our best goalscorer and I'd have in the team for must-win games.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I also pointed out Long was fairly ineffectual in everything else he did, bar the goal. But credit where it's due - all I want is him to score, whether it's a 30-yard screamer or a three-yard-off-a-defender's-arse-scramble-over-the-line. And last night he did it.
I hope you're not serious. 'Player takes pride in positive moment in sporting career' - stop those presses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Translation - everything Keane did was literally the worst. Pull the other one aye?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Given - 5 Distribution poor.
Coleman - 7 On and off. Was at the heart of what we did wrong in the first half and what we did well in the second half.
O'Shea - 6 Right attitude in the second half. Tried to bring the ball out and be positive. Controlled the threat of Lewandowski.
Wilson - 6 Asinine to blame him for the goal.
Brady - 5 Badly exposed and average set pieces but second half showed why he should be played in his proper position.
McGeady - 4 Offered nothing.
Whelan - 6 OK. Offers absolutely nothing when we are on the front foot. Wasn't troubled defensively.
McCarthy - 6 Not the same player he is for Ireland that he is for Everton. Should have been sent off. Anyone not wearing green tinted glasses can see that.
Hoolahan - 7 Poor first half hour. Excellent in the last hour. Deserves to start regularly. Even won the ball on a couple of occasions.
Walters - 6 One or two bright moments but he shouldn't be starting at the expense of McClean, Brady and Long and he signifies everything that is wrong with the way we are set up. Put us under the cosh (like 2nd half injury time against Austria) deep in our own half and we could have been punished for it.
Keane - 3 Offered absolutely nothing. Was second best to everything and was off the pace any time the ball went near him. Instead of offering leadership to his teammates, he just constantly moaned and badgered the referee.
McClean - 7 Excellent impact off the bench. Offered more attitude than all his teammates put together. I said before the game our starting line up lacked pace, penetration and aggressiveness and James brought all of these things when he was finally brought on.
Long - 7 Right attitude when he came on and was quick enough and intelligent enough to react again, like he did when he came on against Russia in Dublin. Has to start against Scotland.
It is two points lost rather than one point won. This Poland team was absolutely dreadful. Lewandowski was anonymous. But they were missing half of their starters so they will be much stronger at home. The problem yesterday wasn't that our "kids" need to be coached better close quarter controls. The problem was that we were set up the wrong way again, the wrong players started again and we had no leadership or personality anywhere on the pitch. Coleman, McCarthy and Keane's temperament let them down time and time again.
Long on the pitch for 10 minutes when we are losing a crucial game and everything he did was wrong bar the goal.
Keane touches the ball about 6 times in the entire match just like he did against Georgia and Germany and yet we still have to indulge this fantasy that he is our best bet of scoring a goal and bailing us out.:rolleyes:
Robbie Keane was absolutely anonymous for the entire game. I would have shot a Sunday League goalkeeper had they let in that header that Fabianski almost made a meal of.
There were too many passengers out there. Simple as that.
I also thought Shay Given should have saved the shot for the Poland goal, didn't make himself big, and gave too much of an angle for the shot. Westwood has been the form Irish keeper this year and it's a mystery how he'd not been given his chance for the game if we were to make any goalkeeping change.
I scratch my head at O'Neills tactics from time to time.
Hard to reply to a post so drenched in hysterical melodrama but I'll give it a go...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Long did well, scored when it mattered. He should start. Given that you spent about 30 posts last night calling for Walters to come off and slagging Keane, you of all people should appreciate a thorough examination of his performance which consisted of a) a miscontrolled pass near the touchline, b)a goal and c) a silly foul.
You consistently fail to acknowledge that the burden of proof isn't with a guy with 60 odd international goals and more footballing intelligence in his left foot than Shane Long has demonstrated in his whole career - it's with Shane Long. A guy who, despite your claims, has blown more chances to grab a starting spot than any other Irish player in recent history.
But he scored, and I'd like to see him start against Scotland.
Granted I haven't seen the Keane chance again since I saw it at the game, at the time it looked a good header and a great save but I'll take your word on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Forde and Westwood should be right to be miffed, but they should've been miffed from the moment Given was brought back into the squad. As soon as that happened, he was getting into the team sooner rather than later and that was always going to be it.
We still don't play with any fluency or plan, tactics-wise. It's either spread the play wide for crosses or look for Walters, even though the team is clearly not designed to play off him. I still want more cohesion especially though midfield. Our goals come through intensity and pressure, but never from any kind of fluid attacking play.
We're winning the ball and keeping it far better than under Trap, so that's improvement. It's what we do with it now that has to get better, particularly if we're to have any hope of qualifying.
Was it a deflection? Shows you what I saw! I thought it was a composed jink over him from where I was sitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Went over the keeper off Glik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Can see the deflection clearly at around the 40 second mark in the video here: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2015/...s-for-ireland/
Reading through all these posts makes me realise, that I've forgotten more about football than Posters on here know about the game.
You still haven't answered my questions.
Sorry to hear that. What's it called? Total amnesia?Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Some post-match videos...
Shane Long interview with FAI TV:
https://vimeo.com/123569440
Robbie Keane interview with FAI TV:
https://vimeo.com/123569642