what is wrong with showing loyalty / pride in your club and staying there for your career .. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
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what is wrong with showing loyalty / pride in your club and staying there for your career .. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Gary Neville played at the highest level for his entire career. Clearly though he had to drop a level and win the South American Championship as well to prove he was good.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by old git
Quote:
Originally Posted by old git
Well there will always be the impression that other better players in that team (Giggs, Beckham, Keane, etc) carried him to an extent. I don't think there was ever a big demand from other top clubs for Neville, to the extent there was for say Keane (who Juventus were after for a time) or Beckham (who had Barca and Madrid after him). There is nothing wrong per se with staying at a club, but it would seem a bit strange that he never had the desire or inclination to test himself in another league or club. For instance, had he played in Italy in the late 1990s / early 2000s he would have had to adapt to a totally different style of football, and really pushed his development as a player. It might be one thing if you are the captain and true talisman of the team (e.g. Totti at Roma, or to an extent Rooney at Man Utd now) but for an average first team player, it seems like a lack of desire to test himself.
Remind me again how many clubs Gerrard and Carragher have played for.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
I think you are wrong to assume that playing in the Libertadores is a drop from playing in Europe. To dismiss Latin American football with such nonchalance is dissapointing but not surprising. The worlds greatest players (Batistuta, Maradona, Pele) have played in the Libertadores, and the Argentine league is one of the most competitive in the world. There isn't the 1-2 team domination you get in England (especially of late when all of the following have won: San Lorenzo, Estudiantes, Banfield, Boca, River, Velez). Playing an away match in the Estadio Pedro Bidegain or El Cilindro in Avellaneda, is far far more intense than playing some midweek fixture away at Hull or some sunny day out at Craven Cottage. The tackles are far more physical, the level of skill is arguably higher, the pace is much more pronounced and the crowd much, much more intimidating.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I think some people on this forum really struggle to comprehend a world existing outside of the the Premiership, let alone in another continent.
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Originally Posted by jebus
I presume you are talking about G. Neville being very average for the majority of his carrer? How you can say for the most part of his career he has been very average is beyond me.
He has played with one of the worlds biggest clubs since 1991 under one of the worlds all time great manager, he has nearly 400 club games and 80 odd international games under he's belt, He has won: Premier League (8): 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2008–09, FA Cup (3): 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
Football League Cup (1): 2005–06, FA Community Shield (3): 1996, 1997, 2008, UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08, Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999, FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008. As well as being voted on the PFA team of the year in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2005, 2007 and the team of the decade as the best right back to play in the PL.
Now don't get me wrong, Neville is a little pox bottle and annoys the bjebus out of me (yes i'm a united fan) but to say he was very average at best is uneducated and a personal point of view rather than the truth.
Carragher is very similar to Neville in that sense - to a degree being carried by a team of better players. Although as he has never won the league you could argue he always has stuff to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by rava
Incidently Gerrard nearly moved on after the CL in 2005 - pretty sure he was at the 11th hour in terms of signing with Chelsea, again you could argue that he was still looking to get the league title, or possibly he views himself as an integral talisman of the team (similar to Totti at Roma).
Edmundo I would be completely lying if I claimed to have a vast knowledge of South American football. I thought it was safe to assume that European Club football was the strongest in the World, seeing as that's where most of the top South Americans ply their trade. I know this is partly for financial reasons but money buys the top players and that's just the way of the world. It wasn't a critism of South American football, which I'm sure is of a high quality and entertaining. The fact that it's more competitive doesn't make it a better standard, just more interesting. You say that Beckham, Giggs and Keane carried Neville and the likes of Gerrard carried Carragher, I don't agree with this at all. Neville, in his own right, was one of the best right backs around, just because he's wasn't a particularly fashionable player doesn't mean he was carried. I would consider Carragher the heartbeat of LFC, far more so than Gerrard and if anything it was Carragher that carried a lot of Liverpool players at times.
why is it a lack of desire :confused: he is playing for his hometown team and also playing for the SO-CALLED biggest club in the world , he has tested himself in champions league against european teams and also club world championship etc against south american teams and very few times did he underperform of course all the big names get all the headlines with goals / performances but utd woud not have been so succesfull without an excellent defence which he was part off :ball:Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Latest installment is that Tevez has said he was directing his gesture at Neville and not the United fans.
"I thought he was in the wrong because we were team-mates and I never disrespected him, I always respected him. I feel he was a boot-licker when he stood by Ferguson's comments that I wasn't worth that money"
So he is saying the Neville, as Club capt. of United was wrong to back his manager up. He would also know that disrespecting the club cpt. of a supporters football club is disrespecting the fans themselves. I think up until the other night the majority of United fans still held Tevez in very high regard but his actions have tainted his image.
Come off it man I don't think the United fans are that sensitive. I support United and think no less of Tevez now. I wish they still had him instead of Berbatov but they don't, so it's time to move on. The stuff the last night is being blown way out of proportion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo69
I think Manchester United were right not to pay the money for a player who wouldn't be first choice for them as long as Rooney was fit
Well said mate. Just on the point of directing it at the Man U fans do people not realise the Man U fans were in the other corner and side of the pitch. Anyway agree with what you said. Heard John Giles last night saying for Neville to get involved in it was proof that as Tevez said he's an idiot. Anyway time to move on people! Know a few STH at Man U and they have lost no respect for Tevez at all. They are actually raging they never signed him up.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
You do realise the Man U fans were in the other corner on the opposite side of the pitch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo69
United fans were covering the whole area behind the goal Tevez scored the penalty.
Yes but in my opinion he should have been first choice, along with Rooney. 07/08 proved that they could play very effectively together. There's no comparision between Tevez's contribution at United and Berbatov's thus far, in my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Not the sideline though;)Quote:
Originally Posted by De Town
Correct, but Neville was closer to the United fans than his own bench, Tevez turned towards him and gestured, it clearly looked like he was doing it to the fans at the time, and there probably was a bit of it directed to United fans but he has been a clever boy and come out and said it was for Neville. Why didn't he do it to Rooney for trying to wind him up just as he was about to take the spot kick? Or at his best mate Evra when he said City are a small minded club who only think about beating United and not on the bigger picture and trying to be consistant week in week out and to actually try and win something? Why single out one player when several were doing pretty much the same thing - which was that they were trying to wind him up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa B
It's a nothing story really if were being honest. In simple terms, United weren't willing to pay his wages demands, leaves united, joins their city rivals, players mouth off in the papers before the game, returns to "haunt" them and scores twice in the 1st leg.
He actually probably should have kept his gob shut until he was 100% City were going through to the final, he will look quite silly if United go on and beat city in the 2nd leg and reach the final, Que a lot of songs and gestures directed the way of a Mr. C. Tevez.
Ferdinand back for Hull and Vidic about two weeks away. That means Vidic will miss the trip to The Emirates, massive loss for that one. If those two could stay fit for the remainder of the season Utd could be a different proposition altogether. Ferguson also said that he's going to select Hargreaves in his Champions League squad so it would be good if we could see him before the season's end.
Ferdinand to make come back
Ferdinand will probably be given a ban after his elbow into Fagan so back to square one...
Were the empty seats at the Hull match a sign that the fans have finally had enough of the Glazers? Nearly time to wind on that famous banner!
Still 12,000 more at hull game than the next biggest stadium holds and nearly 30,000 more than the so called best supported team in england. Wouldnt be closing the doors just yet:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by culloty82
4 game ban for ferdinand ... :confused: referee & 2 linesmen missed original incident what were they watching :D very harsh looks like f.a. added on 1 game because he had the cheek to appeal violent conduct charge .......... "'The Independent Commission felt that the player's claim against the charge was frivolous and on that basis have awarded an additional one match ban upon the statutory three match ban awarded for violent conduct,' said an FA statement." plenty of other incidents in last week or so and nobody charged gallas tackle against davis of bolton ( wenger even apologised after match for tackle ) elliot burnley last night v bolton late studs high into oponents knee etc .. wonder if it a bit of payback for fergies ref comments a few weeks back :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryDrummer
Yeah it's a strange one alright. When the ref misses it a fella can get a big ban but when a ref see's it, but gets it horribly wrong, nothing can be done afterwards.
I thought it was pretty much a given that the ban would be increased once he appealed, since he didn't have much of a defence?Quote:
Originally Posted by old git
Yeah he can't complain too much but I thought he had a slight case. It didn't look all that malicious to me, just two fellas jostling for position and he swung his arm back. It was very tame compared to Gallas and other such incidents with a far greater punishment, but that's the way the rules are applied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
his defence was that mascherano did the same to beckford in carling cup liverpool v leeds a couple of months back and mascherano got off .Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
looks like ref had final say as ref in liverpool game ( wiley) said if he saw incident he would not have sent mascherano off >. but ref in utd game ( bennet ) said he would have sent ferdinand off if he saw incident..
so utd claimed how can it be a fair process if 2 simalar incidents produce 2 different outcomes and also f.a are effectivly asking an officall to re-referee a game :confused:
Manchester United veteran Ryan Giggs has been ruled out for the next four weeks after suffering a fractured arm against Aston Villa.
Won't harm them at all imo and that's not saying he's a bad player before i am accused of having a go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
might hurt them a bit ?? as i thought giggs was playing well this season and scoring some vital goals ... also nani now suspended for 3 games and he was looking half decent recently ..(never thought i would say that)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa B
thought his sending of a bit harsh last night yellow at least... compare to pinnears assult to mascherano last week in pool v everton ... even last night catermole got sent of on a 2nd yellow for a simlar tackle ..
but thats the problem maybee refs are not consistent enough
I thought Nani's was a straight red, without a doubt. There could have been five or six reds in the Merseyside Derby, only saw the highlights but there was some really tough tackles. I'm glad the ref was lenient though, great to see the occasional match like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by old git
I presume Park will just slot in for Giggs with Valancia instead of Nani. Park could possibly have started the San Siro match anyway. Still a big enough loss though at this stage of the season, he's always capable of that bit of magic that Park isn't.
[QUOTE=DeLorean;1319219]I thought Nani's was a straight red, without a doubt. There could have been five or six reds in the Merseyside Derby, only saw the highlights but there was some really tough tackles. I'm glad the ref was lenient though, great to see the occasional match like that.
glad ref was lenient enough !!! going by tackles in liverpool / everton game nani' should never even been booked then :D
but have to say in some of the games now some of the refs book players for nothing tackles :ball:
Giggs has the highest assists count of any of our players this season with a total of 14. We will miss him!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa B
I'm gutted coz I'm going to the United v Milan match in OT and he won't be fit in time. :(
ryan giggs plays for galway :o
That's the second time someone has done that here!
Manchester United are my first team, Galway United are my second!
At least your honest if nothing else :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MaryDrummer
So in other words its ok for a Ref to let what could be career ending challenges the odd time? Rules are rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
But you are right in saying it was great to see a match with tackles just flying in, but i do think the ref got pretty much everything wrong.
That's all I was saying really, obviously though it would be better if they just got the decisions right, like with Nani imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo69
Probably job done for Man Utd... but an early goal for Milan might shake things up a bit, I think both teams will have chances, as both Man Utd's and Milan's defenders struggled to contain each other's attackers. Favalli was pretty slow - even for a 38 year old, much of Milan's team last night would have been a dream team a decade ago (Nesta, Beckham, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Pirlo, Ambrosini, Ronaldinho etc). At the same time Ronaldinho was able to cause big problems and Beckham, when given space, could put in dangerous balls. You would certainly fancy Milan to fashion a chance from a set piece, but equally well if they put Thiago Silva and Nesta up in the oppositions's box Rooney could hit them on the break.
But with Carrick missing the next match, how will Fergie go about his beloved 4 5 1?
I'd love an all out attacking 4 4 2 if Favalli starts with Valencia and Berbatov or Diouf with Rooney up front. You can either play clever hold up play with Berbatov or just run the **** outta Milan and their ageing legs with Diouf.
When the game's there to be won, I'd imagine they will play 4-4-2 at home, but Diouf's surely too inexperienced for a game of this importance. Strangely, Park usually plays well against stronger teams, so probably him, Fletcher, Scholes and Nani/Giggs if fit in midfield, and like you said Valencia/Berbatov with Rooney up front.