Unemployment

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Originally Posted by KevB76

I dont mean to be flippant but the pay cut will no longer be relevant to them when they are let go.
They are in the same boat as the rest of us who have already had a cut, survived the first cull, but dont know from one month to the next how long our job will hold out.

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The public sector are being told they are getting the cut because they have job security. Thats basically been the argument, and its one I agree with to an extent.

You cant then use that argument but also cut the pay of those who dont have the job security.

Personally I think a pay cut for permanent workers and a pay freeze(we were all due increases) for temporary workers would have been fair.

You're punishing those that cant afford to pay for the mistakes of others. Just because the same is happening in other areas doesnt make it fair for the government to do the same

Lads this reminds me of two mice fighting over a tiny little crumb of cheese while the cat walks away with the cream the cheese sandwich and the lobster. Refocus your anger at the people who caused this not at people who decided to go for steady dependable jobs.

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Originally Posted by micls

The public sector are being told they are getting the cut because they have job security. Thats basically been the argument, and its one I agree with to an extent.

You cant then use that argument but also cut the pay of those who dont have the job security.

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Yeah I see your point, it seems harsh alright (from the point of view of somebody from the public service ethos).

But what I'm saying is they are no worse off than hordes of us in who have had cuts for other (obvious) reasons, and are still at risk of being let go. Whilst I can empathise with these people, dont expect me to feel sorry for them. Welcome to my world.

I'll tell you who I do feel sorry for though, is the public service workers on say €30000 or less who've been hit with this new pensions levy, thats really going to make things diifcult for them. It just goes to show how far removed from reality the likes of Martin "its only 3%" Manseragh and the other tools are.
Its fine for them to lose 9% off a salary 5-10 times greater than your average person, what do they even need to use the salary for when they've expenses 2 or 3 times a normal wage! How could they possibly have any idea what its like to get by on a normal wage? They havent a clue.

Sorry, rant over :o

One final thing I would like to say is that erosion of workers rights whether its public or private is an erosion of all workers rights. If public service pensions are eroded and the defined benefit is eroded well then private workers rights will be further eroded. The greatest mistake the unions and government let happen was the idea of defined contribution and the idea that people should play with peoples pensions and lives on the stock market. A pension is far too important for that, however people see pay increases and jump for them at the the time and then pay for it in the long run. Its like who will win the race the snail or the hare and its seems that the person with defined benefit is the snail.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

One final thing I would like to say is that erosion of workers rights whether its public or private is an erosion of all workers rights. If public service pensions are eroded and the defined benefit is eroded well then private workers rights will be further eroded. The greatest mistake the unions and government let happen was the idea of defined contribution and the idea that people should play with peoples pensions and lives on the stock market. A pension is far too important for that, however people see pay increases and jump for them at the the time and then pay for it in the long run. Its like who will win the race the snail or the hare and its seems that the person with defined benefit is the snail.

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What happened to the tortoise.......did he drop out due to a pulled hamstring?

Kudos to the teacher Union going to the Anglo-Irish Banks to pitch their fury at Pension Levy.. This indeed is where the problem was created the avarice greed of that ******* Seanie Fitzpatrick and his cronies... I was apoplectic today when i heard the banking sector couldn't take a paycut due to some contractural clause.. shameful hiding bedind their vulture lawyers - Shameful Shameful... Next stage of the protest should be a march to AIB's Sheedys headmans hidouts and BOI Brian Gogan following by Tarring and feathering Drumm and Fitzpatrick and a match of shame down O'Connell Street

AFAIk teachers are protesting about general cuts in Education rather than the pay cut

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Originally Posted by Sligo Hornet

What happened to the tortoise.......did he drop out due to a pulled hamstring?

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He lost his job in the recession. At least he has a home he does not have to pay a mortgage on though.

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Kudos to the teacher Union going to the Anglo-Irish Banks to pitch their fury at Pension Levy.. This indeed is where the problem was created the avarice greed of that ******* Seanie Fitzpatrick and his cronies... I was apoplectic today when i heard the banking sector couldn't take a paycut due to some contractural clause.. shameful hiding bedind their vulture lawyers - Shameful Shameful... Next stage of the protest should be a march to AIB's Sheedys headmans hidouts and BOI Brian Gogan following by Tarring and feathering Drumm and Fitzpatrick and a match of shame down O'Connell Street

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Do you blame the barman for your hangover?

Anyway, I can't wait 'til the end of the school year so I can picket the schoolgates for wasting my taxmoney on 4 month summer holidays...

P.S. Little known factoid, the collective noun for a group of teachers is a moan...

4 months, who gets four months.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

4 months, who gets four months.

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3 months in the summer, plus rest of year.

The Anglo protest crossed a line.

By branding all bankers together as crooks, I'm entitled to brand all public sector employees as workshy wasters. Obviously that's not the truth, but the Anglo picket invites stuff like this.

You said 4 month summer holidays. Teachers do not get 4 month summer holidays.

Did you ever hear the expression 2 wrongs do not make a right. Just because somebody makes a generalisation about bankers, it does not follow you should then make a similar generatlisation about another sector. Surely the best way to debate with an inaccurate generalisation is to prove his point wrong with facts, not with an equally in accurate generalistion..

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

You said 4 month summer holidays. Teachers do not get 4 month summer holidays.

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I believe it is 4 months holidays for secondary teachers when include Summer, Christmas, easter etc... I used to think was 3 months total until a teacher corrected me. Teaching not a high paid job mainly because of the holidays although it would seem worthwhile investigating idea of reducing summer holidays from 3 to 2 months.

Listening to Jack O'Connor the head of SIPTU on the news where he says that industrial action on a very dramatic scale will be required to resist the ongoing attacks on both public and private workers.

Having been made redundant from my last 4 jobs personally I for one would not support any person taking part in this and in my view if they do stage strikes people should be left on strike until they have no choice but to go back to work.

When people go on strike and lose earnings i am pretty sure he will still receive his full wage every week.

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Originally Posted by Battery Rover

Listening to Jack O'Connor the head of SIPTU on the news where he says that industrial action on a very dramatic scale will be required to resist the ongoing attacks on both public and private workers.

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They are deluded. Does he just want to be seen to be doing something & make it look like he is suffering with the great masses?

From the IT.

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The chairman of Ictu's public services committee, Peter McLoone, said it could "require more than one day of demonstrations to get the Government to recognise the depth of feeling among trade union members"

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I don't agree that FF (& Greens) are doing a good job but they were elected. Some people call FF right wing but thats what the voters choose. Its not like FF suddenly changed their policies as they have been reasonably consistent over the last 10 years.

Hitler was elected too.

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Originally Posted by pete

Teaching not a high paid job mainly because of the holidays although it would seem worthwhile investigating idea of reducing summer holidays from 3 to 2 months.

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I don't get it, Pete. Are you advocating extending the school year for students just to get our money's worth out of teacher's salaries?

Could we not put words in each other's mouths please? He could just as easily be advocating more education.

(Which isn't such a bad idea, although better quality education might be a better priority. Chris Horn put it very well when he said that we need to concentrate on Core skills, not "up skills".

The days when Ireland's strengths were advanced telecommunications and a highly-educated workforce are long gone. Two items Gov.ie should be working on as a priority; two items Gov.ie is worked hard against. Idiots.)

adam

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

3 months in the summer, plus rest of year.

The Anglo protest crossed a line.

By branding all bankers together as crooks, I'm entitled to brand all public sector employees as workshy wasters. Obviously that's not the truth, but the Anglo picket invites stuff like this.

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Ah thanks for that, all that Hyberbole in the media recently led me to believe that Sean Fitzpatrick was Lucifer incarnate when he was in reality just a victim of capitalism thats all, all those other bankers were just on the crest of a wave...I think we should all turn the other cheek accept that when capitalism goes wrong we should all take a hit even if not culpable - Sure if the shoe was on the other foot wouldn't the banks do the same for us.. well wouldn't they?

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Originally Posted by Reality Bites

Ah thanks for that, all that Hyberbole in the media recently led me to believe that Sean Fitzpatrick was Lucifer incarnate when he was in reality just a victim of capitalism thats all, all those other bankers were just on the crest of a wave...I think we should all turn the other cheek accept that when capitalism goes wrong we should all take a hit even if not culpable - Sure if the shoe was on the other foot wouldn't the banks do the same for us.. well wouldn't they?

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I don't recall ever having said anything other than Fitzpatrick was a crook and heads should roll elsewhere. But where do you draw the line at who was and wasn't culpable? That wasn't a rhetorical question by the way, since you seem to find it easy to apportion blame, I'd be grateful if you could tell me where it stops.

Almost everyone in the state benefited from the property boom over the last few years and if we take the view that wealth created since 200X wasn't real, I'd like to know how much you and the rest of the outraged populace have handed back?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, on the way up the country was full of libertarian free marketeers tiger cubs who wanted to be left to get on n with making money, now the milks spilled everyone wants a nanny state and to be saved from their own decisions.

What else should we expect from a country that returned the current bunch of clowns in government repeatedly?