Hull City owners to take majority stake in Dundalk?

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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

Any chance a fans trust will want to take over the club? I cant see why Dundalk fans keep trusting their club to owners who have little to no interest in the long term stability of the club

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The problem with an awful lot of Dundalk fans is they have totally unrealistic expectations. They want local owners who can pump enough money in to redevelop oriel while competing for top honours on the pitch yet they don't seem to want to do any heavy lifting themselves. All the talk over the last few years of supporters clubs and fan groups and trusts and they are still no closer to actually forming a unified group that could be in a position to invest in the club let alone run it.

Even if they did start a trust in the morning, it's debatable how many would actually pay in to it. Even if they got a huge uptake, supporter owned clubs simply can't compete in this league any more without outside investment so Dundalk fans need to decide what they want, stability and growth off the pitch (ie Bohs/Sligo) and in the community or just keep praying they find a rich owner who buys them success.

The constant instability off the pitch is terrible though and you really do have to fear for the club. I would say that relegation and a chance to reset might not be the worst thing in the world but that only applies if the owner has his heart in the mission and it would seem BA doesn't judging by today's reports.

I don’t see how relegation could be the best thing for Dundalk at all.

It could be the death of the club if they don’t manage to bounce back in 2025 and at the moment I don’t know if they’ve any players signed.

The talk from the owner at the start was always quite vague in terms of the backing he was able to bring. To be fair he at least acknowledged that Oriel Park needed a complete revamp and made some small improvements but I suppose with the disastrous season on the pitch it’s possibly just become too much.

As for a fan takeover I don’t know is it advisable for fans to be taking on that sort of debt. It’s a very tough job and if 50% of the proceeds of each fundraiser just end up going on paying off some debt or other built up by previous regimes it’s very disheartening.

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Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

I don’t see how relegation could be the best thing for Dundalk at all.

It could be the death of the club if they don’t manage to bounce back in 2025 and at the moment I don’t know if they’ve any players signed.

The talk from the owner at the start was always quite vague in terms of the backing he was able to bring. To be fair he at least acknowledged that Oriel Park needed a complete revamp and made some small improvements but I suppose with the disastrous season on the pitch it’s possibly just become too much.

As for a fan takeover I don’t know is it advisable for fans to be taking on that sort of debt. It’s a very tough job and if 50% of the proceeds of each fundraiser just end up going on paying off some debt or other built up by previous regimes it’s very disheartening.

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Genuinely what are the other options to fan ownership in this case though? If it was Galway or Waterford i.e. a team on the up you could probably convince an owner to come in, maintain current budgets and try to push on but as is Dundalk are in a rapid decline, have debts, ground is falling apart and staring down the barrel of relegation (I actually think statements like this make relegation more likely). Added to that the fans have been vocally against previous ownership regimes so if I'm some multi millionaire what's the benefit to me in taking on the task that is Dundalk? Yes initially if a fan ownership model ends up coming to fruition it's going to be a tough slog but it's hardly been plain sailing until now.

Im just wondering if Dundalk cant get their ownership model sorted out would they be nearly better getting out of the loi altogether temporarily? JC knows all about what happened to Galway Utd a decade and a half ago and it actually did them no harm getting out of the league and getting back in when Salthill Devon/Mervue Utd didnt work out. Whats happened at Galway Utd now is phenomenal and the model a lot of loi fans want!

I'll happily drop Longford out of the league if it means a local billionaire comes in to bring us to Europe :D

Yeah not sure how viable the "Galway model" is for most clubs :D

Do the many dundalk fans on here not have anything to contribute in regards to the future of their club.
They're never short of an opinion when it comes to talking about any other LOI clubs.:)

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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

Yeah not sure how viable the "Galway model" is for most clubs :D

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I do wonder if the Galway model is even sustainable for Galway. I was at one of their games this season and was really impressed with the amount of young people at the game. It will be interesting if they can sustain it given they have lots of competing sports which have more of a traditional fan base.

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Originally Posted by Thewhitepele

I do wonder if the Galway model is even sustainable for Galway. I was at one of their games this season and was really impressed with the amount of young people at the game. It will be interesting if they can sustain it given they have lots of competing sports which have more of a traditional fan base.

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To be fair I don't think they are going mad on squad wages. Id say they're middle of the pack, more than Dundalk, Drogs, Waterford but less than the Dublin clubs? The only 2 that would push the wages up Keohane and Cunningham. Can't think of anyone else that would be on big wages.

If they're not going mad on wages but losing €1.2m a year, then they've a serious problem somewhere else.

Tbf I think they have invested a bit more in off the field staff than some clubs have. The main bulk of the investment was probably over the years building a massive full time squad in the 1st division and trying to get the team promoted repeatedly. Caulfield didn't come for peanuts, and Ollie would probably be the most expensive assistant coach in first division history. I'm not saying the lads are being paid a fortune, but they certainly aren't being paid minimum wage either.

I don't think they'd be anything other than scrapping with Dundalk/Drogheda without the large outside investment.. Perhaps Cunningham aside they're probably not paying a bunch of individuals very high wages, but there's a decent sized squad and staff all full time, that surely would not be cheap and impossible to run self sufficiently with crowds the size they have.


I think Galway are in general doing excellently, on and off the field and it's great to see, but it would be very naïve to think it is some sort of miracle based solely off of excellent and prudent running of a club.

Clubs who qualify for Europe have to publicly publish accounts if I'm not mistaken, it would be interesting to see a bit more closely.

Legacy issues and poorly managed from at least 3 previous owners have all contributed to this mess.

When p6 left, there was 2.1 M or so in the bank, and the then owners led by StatSports just ran that money down in 2 years, and still made a loss even with 500k euro monies in.

A huge gripe with Dundalk fans was the money not invested from 2016-pre covid on any spectator improvements. 2 new pitches were installed (1.6M), YDC re-fitted, new gym, players canteen, new dressing rooms, video room, add in 500k or so paid in legacy planning fees for the actual building (back to a previous owner), new club offices, new merchandise shop, can't think of more but that was it really, absolutely zero to show for it, spectator improvement wise.

Group stage 2020 profits would only have funded post covid, and also to add the 2016 group stage apart from all of above in bold was all spent on player budgets during the Kenny era, all it achieved really was winning the 2018 and 2019 league, then the cup in 2020 on the final whirlwind.

Attendances are hoovering around 2,200 to 2750, comparing that with even Shels or Pats its around 1,500 below (20k min ticket sales less per game).

The club has been badly run since almost to the day that p6 (part 2) took over, this would be a year after Kenny left, and probably after the end of the last league title season of 2019, enter Mad Bill, then Covid, then P6 part 2 turned toxic, then StatsSport led group took over at end of 2021, stayed all of 2022 and 2023, didn't spend a single cent of their own money, each season DFC were the final club to tie down players, they then left end of 2023, then enter the mostly unheard of one man show that was Ainscough end of 2023, and this is where its at now.

He obv didn't do his due diligence, there seems to be tax issues, local supply debts, he didn;t raise the investment he was talking about.

That's about it, a right royal mess and no idea where the club goes from here. New owners again, but what are they buying, a hobby ? Other than that the only thing would be the uefa coefficient of 8.5 but that's only good if they qualify for europe, staying afloat is more the concern.

Then you have the likes of this !!

https://x.com/LiveatOriel/status/1831622449114304581

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Originally Posted by placid casual

Do the many dundalk fans on here not have anything to contribute in regards to the future of their club.
They're never short of an opinion when it comes to talking about any other LOI clubs.:)

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I agree with Outspoken above. I have in the past, more than once commented on the fickleness and sense of entitlement of many Dundalk FC supporters. Not all of course, but half joking full in earnest swipes at those who think and behave as if the club is privilaged to have them at games and that the club should pay them to be supporters. There has been failed attempts to build supporters groups that would pay weekly/monthly subs to help the clubs finances. The Co-op being the main one - voting on spending to bounce back from relegation but being aghast at the suggestion of co-op membership being an annual membership rather than once off. I think myself that subsequent schemes more imploded and dwindled rather than fans refusing to make the financial contribution. I had no love for the messing of P6 but if they were sticking around with deep pockets their messing may have resolved if Bill had gotten tired, but to lobby to push out deep pockets, well at the very least they would have grabbed grant money with applications probably given to specialist companies to do. There were no shortage of anti-American sentient rather than just P6 are messers with some saying they'd rather the club in the 1st Division rather than be American owned. Personal political attitudes pervading a sporting entity. People stated that that ownership was dommed to fail from the begining, I disagree albeit they were happy to get out when fans started protests. There was no shortage of onfield success along with the crazy stuff. Eyes were wiped with the sUbsequent local ownership and Imo a catalogue of individual and collective mismanagement and messing that was up there with Bill in a different way came to light under this current ownership. The legacy of dysfunction lies more at the door of local self importance type than P6. Ainscough may have underestimated the job, the full picture may not have been disclosed, maybe 'investors' didnt materialise....doubt anyone really knows. Accounts will indicate where the debt was accumulated in the most part and then questions can be asked on why buy a club with such debt if not in a position to manage it.

I think the clubs future could be more at risk than previous hairy times though I dont know that for certain, maybe there are interested owners but we get to be less picky. Its obvious that the problem has been more than just money with vested interests and a lack of ability in key off field roles - maybe the peter principle kicked in from growth during the Kenny era to a level where the calibre of some paid staff needed addressing. Im currently personally weary of decline and the battle to carry on to fight another day, hopefully as in the past its survive and can thrive again. Right now its tough to watch things at DFC but its not much of a surprise and current circumstances are years in the making.

On supporters groups, in the past when a supporters clubs ran the Lilywhite Lounge its was seen as wondeful work being able to 'raise' money for the club - it was lazy fundraising as the bar would always have generated income, what was raised beyond bar takings is what I would have measured fundraising by and Im not sure its was game changing, thats going back to the co-op years. The Trust did work and saved the club if Matthews was going to wind it up and they did facilitate the joint ownership that led to the Kenney era off success. Supporters got complacent and you make hay when the sun shines and that didnt happen at all. I dont think there were eve annual club awards nights organised. Current supporters groups were formed wth the best of intentions but again imo where taken over by person/people that have political agendas beyond football, as a group was building it was splintering just as quickly. At a very base level if people left personal and political ego at the door itd be a start to a fix without a cent. The wealthiest of clubs can flouder with fractured internal workings.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

If they're not going mad on wages but losing €1.2m a year, then they've a serious problem somewhere else.

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Somewhere else.......and some goind mad on some wages!

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Originally Posted by Thewhitepele

I do wonder if the Galway model is even sustainable for Galway. I was at one of their games this season and was really impressed with the amount of young people at the game. It will be interesting if they can sustain it given they have lots of competing sports which have more of a traditional fan base.

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Those competing sports don't have the same fan culture that you find at LOI games and i think that's one of the things that attracts young people

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Originally Posted by oriel

That's about it, a right royal mess and no idea where the club goes from here. New owners again, but what are they buying, a hobby ? Other than that the only thing would be the uefa coefficient of 8.5 but that's only good if they qualify for europe, staying afloat is more the concern.

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Think the Uefa coefficient is something that was mentioned by journalists as being one of the strong selling points of the club in recent years when it was up for sale at various points. It’s becoming less of a relevant selling point for Dundalk now though as the cycle only includes the most recent 5 seasons, meaning Dundalk will lose the 2020 group stage campaign in their next Euro campaign (2026 at the earliest) and will continue to lose those coefficient points from 2021 & 2023 the more years go by without European football

Dundalks Co efficients at the moment are 8.5 and hostorically are
2019-2020 2
2020-2021 3
2021-2022 2
2022-2023 0
2023 2024 1.5
2024 2025 0

Obviously 25/26 will be zero and they lose the 2 points from 2020 so they will be 6.5 going into the following campaign if they qualify through next seasons league or cup
If they dont qualify next year they lose the 3 from 2020-2021 and will be down to a coefficient of 3.5 which wouldnt get them anywhere seedings wise.
If Ainscough is getting money for Dundalk as opposed to walking away its hard to see how Eujrope (as you said) is part of any valuation

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Originally Posted by Another Bohemia

To be fair I don't think they are going mad on squad wages. Id say they're middle of the pack, more than Dundalk, Drogs, Waterford but less than the Dublin clubs? The only 2 that would push the wages up Keohane and Cunningham. Can't think of anyone else that would be on big wages.

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Gary Buckley doubled his wage when he left the Showgrounds for Galway.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Dundalks Co efficients at the moment are 8.5 and hostorically are
2019-2020 2
2020-2021 3
2021-2022 2
2022-2023 0
2023 2024 1.5
2024 2025 0

Obviously 25/26 will be zero and they lose the 2 points from 2020 so they will be 6.5 going into the following campaign if they qualify through next seasons league or cup
If they dont qualify next year they lose the 3 from 2020-2021 and will be down to a coefficient of 3.5 which wouldnt get them anywhere seedings wise.
If Ainscough is getting money for Dundalk as opposed to walking away its hard to see how Eujrope (as you said) is part of any valuation

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It's only based on 5 years, so the 3 from 20/21 will already be gone and we'll be down to 3.5 even if we qualify this time next year for the European campaign 26/27. Absolutely grim to have thrown that away.

2021-2022 2
2022-2023 0
2023 2024 1.5
2024 2025 0
2025 2026 0

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Originally Posted by redobit

Gary Buckley doubled his wage when he left the Showgrounds for Galway.

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How do you know that?