Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Tue, 14 November 2017 World Cup 2018 Play Off 2nd Leg

The corner was a succession of poor game management manoeuvres. First of all Hendrick was too slow out for the short corner support.
Secondly Arter's positioning was horrendous, to say schoolboy defending is unfair on schoolboys.
Lastly Murphy needed to be closing down that space once the ball went past Arter. Even when Cisco* got the ball Murphy was static.

*I know what his name is.

I can't convey how upset I am after watching that game, and that campaign frankly. I think of the money that could be used to coach kids instead of what is being spent on the managers salary and my blood boils.

I think Mark12345 is probably being a bit harsh on a respected poster in the form of Owlsfan, but I agree with his general premise.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Are we talking about the same incident? The first Danish goal? if it is then you need to look at it again.
Christie wasn't on the post, he was in the middle of the goal, had made an effort at full stretch to stop the ball, the ball rebounded off the post, hit his outstretched leg into the net. Zero culpability. Meyler was the nr 1 culprit.

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Exactly! He's standing in the middle of the goal - he is supposed to be standing on the post - therefore he is out of position to begin with. Why would your full back be standing in the middle of the goal line from a corner - schoolboy stuff.

Then as the ball is scrambled across the goal he tries to get into the position he is supposed to be in, in the first place - he kicks it in after it hits the post. If he is in the correct starting position then its a simple punt down the field.

Pathetic!

It was 2v1 from the corner for a second or two, he was beaten 1v1. Let's get that straight.

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Originally Posted by Polster

I kept mentioning to the boy during the first half, how frustrating it was watching every player point the finger and give out to some one else, again childish and for me just shows up individuals with no confidence or real courage.

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I agree with what you say and in my opinion it comes down to leadership; all this talk of leadership within the side is just that: talk. And it starts from the goalkeeper, all the way up the field.

Duffy's a leader, McClean's a leader, Brady is a leader. Nope, not one of them. It was widely mentioned after the Georgia game that McClean was all over the place in trying to do everything, when in fact he should have held his own position. By taking the "responsibility" to make something happen, all he's doing is negating his own influence. That shows up a flaw in Cyrus Christie in allowing McClean to do what Christie should be doing.

It's the same with the two centre-halves. I counted three occasions where Shane Duffy just ballooned the ball nowhere, two of which went over the sideline. Leadership there is calling the 5 midfielders and letting them distribute the ball, and when they don't do the necessary, balling them out of it. I'd argue that the Centre-halves are being hamstrung by the goalkeeper also. Surely others have noticed that the guy literally does not come out of his box. As a consequence the defence just drops deeper and deeper. The goalkeeper needs to be barking at the two cbs to push out and literally get up behind them to force them out.

What happened when Denmark had to clear long last night? They had 3 players chasing down the ball at all times. We just don't have that outlet because we play so deep.

We've a problem with application. The team genuinely appears to be full of energy and vigour. But we're applying it in the wrong areas. If we do the hard press in our half, it's just a waste of energy. The gap between the two banks of four and the striker is too vast, particularly when the striker is not mobile.

Robbie Brady lost the head when Denmark scored first. He was quite clearly heard to be balling all and sundry out of it in the passage of play between the two goals.

Coleman has been massively missed. And James McCarthy has been massively missed.

The manager deserves derision and to be slated for the decisions he made last night. I've no problem with a risk, but it has to be a calculated risk. This result has been coming and coming and coming. I wrote this last Sunday:

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There are little things that annoy me about how we play. If O'Neill thinks that we're better off without the ball that's his call. However it's the consession of territory that annoys me. He obviously is afraid of our lack of pace at the back and is willing to allow us to defend inside the 18 line and then work the set-pieces. This will be the rock that we flounder on. Sure it narrows the space in behind for someone to get through, but drawing the guts of 16/17 players into and around your own penalty area is not clever. All it takes is one deflection, or one loss of concentration, or one misjudgement (see N.Iron penalty) and the game plan is undone.

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He's been banking on absolute mental resolve throughout the campaign. It's just unfortunate that it has happened in the pivotal match of the campaign. It could have been Austria at home. It could have been Serbia away, when we got away with it. I'm gutted for the players, but not for the manager. What worries me also about last nights result is that it might be used as some form of vindication that we can't play football, or worse, that we should decamp into our own half for the full game and play anti-football. He's a spoofer, an arrogant spoofer, who feels he's above critique, and I hope to god this is the end for him.

We've got approximately a year before the next competitive games start, and the Nations League needs to be taken seriously. The FAI need to get as many games as they can in the summer, so the fringe players get an opportunity surrounded by a strong team in their preferred positions to show what they can do.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Exactly! He's standing in the middle of the goal - he is supposed to be standing on the post - therefore he is out of position to begin with. Why would your full back be standing in the middle of the goal line from a corner - schoolboy stuff.

Then as the ball is scrambled across the goal he tries to get into the position he is supposed to be in, in the first place - he kicks it in after it hits the post. If he is in the correct starting position then its a simple punt down the field.

Pathetic!

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I don't agree. I think that once Sisto was attacking the bye line inside our box and as Randolph had to then cover the near post it made sense for Christie to move in a bit. The situation had long since ceased to be just a corner.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I don't agree. I think that once Sisto was attacking the bye line inside our box and as Randolph had to then cover the near post it made sense for Christie to move in a bit. The situation had long since ceased to be just a corner.

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Couldn't agree more. How can an attacker breaking into the box still be treated the way you would a direct corner into the box

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Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl

Couldn't agree more. How can an attacker breaking into the box still be treated the way you would a direct corner into the box

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Exactly, the entire team was standing around as if a direct corner was being taken, even though the short corner had started a good 5-10 seconds earlier.

It's as if nobody had ever drilled them on short corners in training. Wouldn't surprise me.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I don't agree. I think that once Sisto was attacking the bye line inside our box and as Randolph had to then cover the near post it made sense for Christie to move in a bit. The situation had long since ceased to be just a corner.

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Harping on about it seems pointless but his starting position was wrong and if he took up the position he was supposed to in the first place he would have never been scrambling. The corner isn't "over" until the ball is clear! There was plenty cover in the middle and the fact that the ball squeezed in the far post only exacerbates the error in my book and proves why cover is needed in that exact position in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I don't agree. I think that once Sisto was attacking the bye line inside our box and as Randolph had to then cover the near post it made sense for Christie to move in a bit. The situation had long since ceased to be just a corner.

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We were awful, simple fact of the matter, had we fluckily went 2-0 up I still think we'd have lost. It wasn't close enough to bother looking at individual moments, yes games change on little things, but from start to finish we were as bad as I have ever seen, 5-1 was a fair reflection and Denmark are far from world beaters.

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Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl

Couldn't agree more. How can an attacker breaking into the box still be treated the way you would a direct corner into the box

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An attacker breaking into the box right by the by line - the cover was needed at the far post! There was none - 1-1.

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Originally Posted by Polster

We were awful, simple fact of the matter, had we fluckily went 2-0 up I still think we'd have lost. It wasn't close enough to bother looking at individual moments, yes games change on little things, but from start to finish we were as bad as I have ever seen, 5-1 was a fair reflection and Denmark are far from world beaters.

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no fluke about either of the moves that created the two (Murphy and McLean) chances to put us 2-0 up. in fact there was a 2nd murphy chance after an excellent brady ball down the line to mcclean.
the first 30 mins were very open with both teams creating equal chances.

we just seemed to fall to pieces after the 2nd goal and the daft HT substitutions really destroyed us. had we got the second id bet we would have successfully shut up shop as we did in Cardiff and Copenhagen.

one last thing.... don't let anyone even nearly suggest we are the best fans in the world ever again. the 25,000 or so who left 15 mins from the end were disgraceful. always maintained we have roughly 20,000 fans who care deep down and last night proved it.... although maybe they left to help an old lady cross the road or fix a puncture or two :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

one last thing.... don't let anyone even nearly suggest we are the best fans in the world ever again. the 25,000 or so who left 15 mins from the end were disgraceful. always maintained we have roughly 20,000 fans who care deep down and last night proved it.... although maybe they left to help an old lady cross the road or fix a puncture or two :rolleyes:

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It started with the 3rd goal very clearly on television. Horrid to see.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

one last thing.... don't let anyone even nearly suggest we are the best fans in the world ever again. the 25,000 or so who left 15 mins from the end were disgraceful. always maintained we have roughly 20,000 fans who care deep down and last night proved it.... although maybe they left to help an old lady cross the road or fix a puncture or two :rolleyes:

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I left after the 3rd goal. I used up brownie points at work to leave at 4 o'clock yesterday, drove 120 miles to get to the game, went through the usual pain of getting parked in D4, and was in my seat early as requested by the FAI.

By leaving early I got back to the house shortly before midnight for once instead of closer to 1am which is more usual.

I do this for every home game. People come from further than me and I'm not asking for anyone's thanks or praise, but if that makes me a disgrace in your eyes I'll have to just take it.

Tell me, did you have much bother getting a bus back into town? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

I left after the 3rd goal. I used up brownie points at work to leave at 4 o'clock yesterday, drove 120 miles to get to the game, went through the usual pain of getting parked in D4, and was in my seat early as requested by the FAI.

By leaving early I got back to the house shortly before midnight for once instead of closer to 1am which is more usual.

I do this for every home game. I'm not asking for anyone's thanks or praise, but if that makes me a disgrace in your eyes I'll have to just take it.

Tell me, did you have much bother getting a bus back into town? :rolleyes:

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there's always a reasonable excuse for some but it was telling that the dart I got after the game had less than half the usual passengers than usual for the same stage after previous matches so not everyone who left early was travelling very far. id say many were back on their bar stools before the game ended.

btw I have travelled to the likes of limerick when we played outside of Dublin so I have some idea of your commute although obviously not as regularly as you.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

An attacker breaking into the box right by the by line - the cover was needed at the far post! There was none - 1-1.

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Did the goal come from someone coming in on the far post?

Maybe we should just have somebody on both posts for the full 90 minutes. We play so deep we don't have to worry about the offsides trap anyway... :think:

This is 100% exactly what Ive been thinking

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

I think this is the lowest point I remember for the Ireland side in my 50 plus years. And we have had some bad ones. Denmark are a bang average side with a very good midfielder, not a world class one. They are certainly not in the same league as the Denmark team that took us apart twice in the 80's. Since Brian Kerr we have had a succession of managers who instil lack of belief into the squad and encourage the squad to defend deep and try and nick a goal, then hang on for dear life. The neutrals who watched Saturdays game must have been praying we didn't make it, imagine having to watch that style played out on world cup TV for 90 minutes. My suggestion is forget the Euros, get rid of the veterans and try and build with younger players, and yes, even Eircom league players if they do the business in European club competition. We are going nowhere with this O'Neill. Get the other one or Kenny.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

This is 100% exactly what Ive been thinking

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It's time for a statement of intent by the FAI. I understand they are doing moderately well in terms of underage development at the moment, even if it is 20 years past due. But there has to be a marrying of the LOI with the national team. Better people than me have said that after recent campaigns. I would like the FAI to forego the million euros they'll spend on the next coaches ( O'Neill should step down following the catalogue of mistakes he has made in this campaign) and appoint someone like Stephen Kenny with Damien Duff, a highly respected and highly credible figure, as his assistant. Both men have a vested interest in the game at home.

I'd love to get Robbie Keane involved in someway in the set up. I like what he says when he talks football

There was an awful lot wrong in that Danish move before Christie’s unfortunate off the post own goal .

Allowing 2 on 1s from corners is Tres Bad and its not as if there wasn’t warnings in the first game......