Georgia V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 2 September 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Actually, I think I'll have to take that back - it does cross-reference some similar stats to Sadlier's article, but then it also quotes the article itself. Not as bad as I'd thought on a first glance.

Here is the Sadlier article for comparison.

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Read the 42 article which also refers to Sadlier's piece in the Times.
One thing stood out like a bright light in the darkness, only, unfortunately it was a negative.
It said that many Irish kids under the age of 12 are still playing eleven-a-side games on full size pitches. That says it all - no more needs to be said.
I have had my experience of this in recent years. There is no way on God's green earth that kids so young should be playing in eleven a side teams on full size pitches.
You need 5 a side games on much smaller pitches - that way they get a million more touches on the ball and learn at an infinitely faster rate.
Those folks who remain intransigent and don't want our kids to do it the right way, and it's coaches and parents alike, are killing any potential their kids might have.
WAKE UP!

Another thing said in the comments section of that article, is that fans will need to stay away from the Aviva in their droves in order for the FAI to change. Just imagine if Ireland are played off the park by Serbia on Tuesday and are say 2-0 down at half time, having repeated the caveman football of Saturday. To see hundreds of fans getting up and leaving would be the best statement the public could make.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Our goal shouldn't have even counted.

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Were there questions of a foul? I thought the goal was fine. Their keeper was flapping all over the place, but I don't think he was fouled. Bodies came together as three players challenged for the ball, but neither Clark nor Duffy had hands on him.

https://www.thesun.ie/wp-content/upl..._photo-19.jpeg

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Three bad games in this group actually, not one. And two of them weren't just bad, they ranked (at least Saturday's performance did) with the worst international displays of any team ever.
There was so much that could have been done differently on Saturday. If the plan was to invite them on us, the plan should also have included players for a quick counter attack (ie McGeady and Horgan or McClean). With Walters in the team you are never going to spring a lightning counter attack are you? Shane Long started - as he should have done. But after 45 minutes it called for a change of attacking ideas - Sean Maguire maybe? I know he's brand new in upper tier football but he is the only viable option we have.

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"the worst international displays of any team ever"

Spare me the hyperbole. It was bad but I'd invite you to watch us against Liechtenstein in '95, Cyprus in '06 or Germany in 2012.

We were never going to launch any sort of counter against Georgia as they were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that. They were happy to hold their shape and pass us to death. It was too warm for the sort of pressing game needed to counter those tactics. What we needed was someone with the technical ability to give us a spark in midfield. Personally I'd have gone with Hoolahan but O'Neill went with McGeady and I'd have to conceed that he did well.

We're in a good position to qualify. This is no time to panic.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Another thing said in the comments section of that article, is that fans will need to stay away from the Aviva in their droves in order for the FAI to change. Just imagine if Ireland are played off the park by Serbia on Tuesday and are say 2-0 down at half time, having repeated the caveman football of Saturday. To see hundreds of fans getting up and leaving would be the best statement the public could make.

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I agree that only something like that - hitting the FAI in the pocket - would force significant change within the organisation, but so long as a boycott or walk-out could be interpreted, misconstrued or mischaracterised by disgruntled fans, concerned parties and casual observers alike as shunning the team/players, I don't envisage something like that ever happening. Well, not unless things got exceptionally desperate and we were struggling at the bottom of a qualification group.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Top MLS teams are still quite poor IMO.

And when you talk about a 14/15 year old going to America, you're talking about uprooting a whole family and sending them to the far side of the world for a 1 in a million shot.

It really isn't a practical option - certainly not one we should be actively pursuing anyway.

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You're probably right about it not being a practical option. Uprooting families would be a big ask.
However the MLS is not a 'poor' league.
The players in America are streets ahead of our international players in terms of technical ability (you have a large smattering of Central / South Americans and Africans who are very good on the ball).

How will we line up on Tuesday? I think Brady is vital to us but has really struggled in midfield on Austrian game and yesterday. I would play him left full it let's him get on the ball way more and he can pass into midfield and put good ball into the box with ward offering none of that. I would be willing to accept his possible defensive lapses. I can't see when an having recovered from that heat and long flight to be fit for rules day. We will need legs that at his age and after that heat and flight I can't see him having. For me I would play MeyLer instead. I would play mcgeady and Mcclean wide and have wes and arter in with meyler with arter pushing on to join long when we have the ball so wes can drop into midfield to get on the ball. I don't think wes Been advanced of the ball as in playing off long suits him cause he struggles to get on it

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

"the worst international displays of any team ever"

Spare me the hyperbole. It was bad but I'd invite you to watch us against Liechtenstein in '95, Cyprus in '06 or Germany in 2012.

We were never going to launch any sort of counter against Georgia as they were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that. They were happy to hold their shape and pass us to death. It was too warm for the sort of pressing game needed to counter those tactics. What we needed was someone with the technical ability to give us a spark in midfield. Personally I'd have gone with Hoolahan but O'Neill went with McGeady and I'd have to conceed that he did well.

We're in a good position to qualify. This is no time to panic.

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"They were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that (a counter attack)." I don't know what you mean by this? They were camped in our half for most of the first half. Had we an outlet ball to McGeady and another crafty winger like Horgan then we would have presented them problems. I agree hundred per cent with you about playing Hoolahan, I think everyone agrees with that sentiment. But the question we must ask ourselves is - if MON had no intention of playing Wes, why did he subject him to two long flights in the space of three days?

Its easy to criticise the manager but we've more or less had the same negative approach since the Kerr days and the quality of the players O'Neill has at his disposal must be considered. If you look at the players McCarthy put out against Holland the last time we qualified for the World Cup (https://www.theguardian.com/football...wsstory.sport2) only Brady would have any chance of staking a claim for a place in that team. For all Harte's faults he was miles better than Stephen Ward who is one of the poorest players I've seen in the jersey.

To play good football and get decent results you need players who are good with the ball. I struggle to see how you would play possession football with the likes of Ward, McClean, Whelan and Clark in the team.

Thought I'd wait 24 hours to reflect before posting.

As bad as the turgid performance by the players was it pales when compared to O'Neills disgraceful display of passive aggressiveness he delivered when interviewed after the match- the man showed what a pathetic bully he is as he performed a Clough style bully boy attack - that might work with players where he is in control of their destiny but was shown up for its ignorance and crassness by Tony O'D- MON isn't up to the job and no amount smug not so clever ignorant comments like he made yesterday will cover that up. The sooner he's gone the better.

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Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

Thought I'd wait 24 hours to reflect before posting.

As bad as the turgid performance by the players was it pales when compared to O'Neills disgraceful display of passive aggressiveness he delivered when interviewed after the match- the man showed what a pathetic bully he is as he performed a Clough style bully boy attack - that might work with players where he is in control of their destiny but was shown up for its ignorance and crassness by Tony O'D- MON isn't up to the job and no amount smug not so clever ignorant comments like he made yesterday will cover that up. The sooner he's gone the better.

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I thought O'Neill handled Tony well and managed not to shove that monster mike down Tony's throat. Tony is yet another advocate of the leading question which he throws out with schoolboy gusto. Instead of asking how Martin felt about the all the long balls played and was it part of the game plan, he spurts out "You can't be happy with all the long balls?"
Then Tony asks (in crisis mode) "Is there a quick fix?" :D
is there a quick fix?? If Tony was the tv news reporter on the economy, the currency has collapsed, is there a quick fix ask Tony?:rolleyes:

John Giles spoke a lot of sense on 'Off the Ball' earlier today: http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off...w_with_Georgia

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Read the 42 article which also refers to Sadlier's piece in the Times.
One thing stood out like a bright light in the darkness, only, unfortunately it was a negative.
It said that many Irish kids under the age of 12 are still playing eleven-a-side games on full size pitches. That says it all - no more needs to be said.
I have had my experience of this in recent years. There is no way on God's green earth that kids so young should be playing in eleven a side teams on full size pitches.
You need 5 a side games on much smaller pitches - that way they get a million more touches on the ball and learn at an infinitely faster rate.
Those folks who remain intransigent and don't want our kids to do it the right way, and it's coaches and parents alike, are killing any potential their kids might have.
WAKE UP!

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Same for me, that was a shocker, see kids playing all the time here as live near a good few football teams, and they all play small pitches, 5 a side games. Also i might add the coaching seems on a different planet to what i have seen in ireland...........

Love the comments on how Georgia are decent. Are they really? I haven't noticed it.

Fair point.

For mccauley read o'hanlon. Plenty of examples of very talented lads that haven't made it. As i said,many of the talents i mentioned will end up playing with solihull or drogheda rather than Liverpool or Chelsea.

However,against all odds we are still producing very talented youngsters. That cannot be denied. If we had a proper outlet for them here to develop,then we would have a higher success rate because it's becoming next to impossible to get game time in the Premiership. Maybe Shamrock Rovers will lead the way,though a lot of the very best youngsters (parents too) will see the bright lights of Anfield or Old Trafford.

The fact is though that will take years to implement.

Arter,Brady and Hoolahan are all good ball players. We can play good football so it's not something that we are incapable of. The tactics of MON are dinosaur like and do serious damage to football in the country,though if we make a world cup, that will be offset a little. Far inferior teams to us play it on the deck. No excuse for us.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

However,against all odds we are still producing very talented youngsters. That cannot be denied.

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I think it can. Where are they?

Even the 21s squad is mostly English players - who by definition we're not producing. They're products of the English system.

The Irish system is hugely defective. And it's one of the biggest issue facing the game today.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Were there questions of a foul? I thought the goal was fine. Their keeper was flapping all over the place, but I don't think he was fouled. Bodies came together as three players challenged for the ball, but neither Clark nor Duffy had hands on him.

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The goal was fine. Keeper was poor for it. Duffy and Clark had eyes on the ball

The u21s are a shambles. I watch a bit of LOI but I'm sure people on here who know a lot more than I do about it, would have more Irish in it.

I have been a massive critic of the FAI. I don't see a lot of the structural stuff changing for years. We have punched above our weight historically for producing great players (not the last 15 years) because of the culture of street football which is now pretty much non-existent, and not good quality coaching. Dokter seems to want to implement things but it will take time to change old habits.

My point was simply that despite all the things we do wrong, we still produce some of the best underage talents in the English game. That does not mean that McCauley and O'Connor etc will make it, or reach the level we hope, it just means that they are very good talents. For all we do wrong, there are things being done right. St Kevin's beating Barca last year being a case in point.

My opinion is that we need to replicate what works in countries like Denmark, where they may lose their best talent to an Ajax, but they keep the bulk of their underage team in Denmark. That means that talented lads have a more realistic chance of breaking through in to first team football, rather than having their hopes of being the next "big thing" ruined after Jose or Pep spunks 150 million on a ready made world class player.

Brexit could initially make things difficult for our football team, as nobody knows how it might impact on EU players, which will affect us most of all. However, long-term it could be a blessing for us, as if it is done right by LOI clubs, it might mean that the talent coming through is far superior, as it stays in the Irish game.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Brexit could initially make things difficult for our football team, as nobody knows how it might impact on EU players, which will affect us most of all. However, long-term it could be a blessing for us, as if it is done right by LOI clubs, it might mean that the talent coming through is far superior, as it stays in the Irish game.

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I think Irish citizens will remain legally distinguished from other EU citizens in the UK post-Brexit as the purported aim of the British government is to protect the current Common Travel Area arrangements. A recent policy paper published by the British government stated that "Irish citizens residing in the UK will not need to apply for 'settled status' to protect their entitlements".

Not that I can see how this might directly benefit Irish youngsters playing football, but just something (possibly fanciful) that popped into my head; in theory, if British clubs were having difficulty importing EU citizen players into, say, the EPL or SPFL after Brexit due to expected changes in British immigration law that will likely deny EU citizens automatic travel rights and require them to apply for a permit or visa of some sort, British clubs could potentially set up arrangements with clubs in Ireland, bring EU citizen players to those clubs and then formally transfer them across the Irish Sea once they became entitled to and acquired Irish citizenship after a couple of years (as Irish citizens will still have automatic travel rights and "settled status" rights if living in the UK).

Not sure how practical it would be and it's an apparent "loophole" that anti-immigration Brexiteers seemingly don't wish to discuss (the fact that EU citizens who won't ordinarily have access to Britain post-Brexit will still potentially be able to acquire Irish citizenship through naturalisation by moving to Ireland for a couple of years, which will then effectively grant them free access to the UK), but, in theory, if the "loophole" was to remain, it could help raise the standard of the league, thus attracting a greater level of public interest and investment, which arguably could have a knock-on effect of enhancing training facilities and long-term youth player development. Of course, you could also argue that filling the league with non-Irish EU citizens might deprive Irish youngsters of first-team opportunities, so perhaps it could actually prove counter-productive rather than beneficial on that front... Hard to know, but it's just a fairly raw thought that came into my head.

Edit: Just looking into the criteria for Irish citizenship by naturalisation again here and I see that applicants must "intend to continue living in the State". If it was evident to the Irish government that the EU citizen players intended to transfer to Britain straight after becoming naturalised Irish citizens, perhaps what I've theorised wouldn't be viable after all.

All due respect Danny, I think Yann Hafner would disagree with most of that. If I know Yann as well as I think I do.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Were there questions of a foul? I thought the goal was fine. Their keeper was flapping all over the place, but I don't think he was fouled. Bodies came together as three players challenged for the ball, but neither Clark nor Duffy had hands on him.

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Definitely mentioned a few times on RTÉ and the highlights show, a few of the pundits definitely said we got away with it. Clark put his arm/elbow across the keepers face I thought. I think the fact that the keeper got himself into such a poor position worked against him (in more ways than one). The picture above is after the contact.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Brexit could initially make things difficult for our football team, as nobody knows how it might impact on EU players, which will affect us most of all. However, long-term it could be a blessing for us, as if it is done right by LOI clubs, it might mean that the talent coming through is far superior, as it stays in the Irish game.

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Brexit will make no difference to us as regards players playing in the UK any more than not being members of the EU affects Africans, South Americans etc playing the the EPL.