Shay Given

Anyone read Miguel Delaney in the Tribune yesterday? Given is a great keeper, but not a top keeper......:confused:

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Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Anyone read Miguel Delaney in the Tribune yesterday? Given is a great keeper, but not a top keeper......:confused:

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You should read it again a bit more carefully. He writes that Given arguably veers between World class and the World's elite.
Heroes of the last line
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'The title of best keeper in the Premier League is up for grabs although Shay Given and Pepe Reina still look short of the planet's best'

'It's arguably the one aspect that keeps Given moving from world-class to the world's elite. He doesn't completely and emphatically clear out his box for crosses in the manner Schmeichel mastered and Casillas and Gigi Buffon continue to. While Given remains a more spectacular shot-stopper to Reina, the Spaniard arguably averages out in more areas as the slightly more complete keeper.'

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Originally Posted by geysir

You should read it again a bit more carefully. He writes that Given arguably veers between World class and the World's elite.
Heroes of the last line
.

'The title of best keeper in the Premier League is up for grabs although Shay Given and Pepe Reina still look short of the planet's best'

'It's arguably the one aspect that keeps Given moving from world-class to the world's elite. He doesn't completely and emphatically clear out his box for crosses in the manner Schmeichel mastered and Casillas and Gigi Buffon continue to. While Given remains a more spectacular shot-stopper to Reina, the Spaniard arguably averages out in more areas as the slightly more complete keeper.'

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and its about right.... lots of us here have agreed on different threads that its his only real flaw its a bit of a non story really. the difrence between pepe and shay is at the start the spainard didnt come for or he missed for crosses and he has worked very hard on it whyle shay has not really shown any real improvment ever. i'm sure hes capable but its a confidence thing.

(im a goalie) :)

Shay has improved in other areas, his first touch, his kick outs under pressure and is less afflicted by rushes of blood to the head.

Geysir unfortunately i have to disagree about his kick outs which have been very poor this season, I know city have a new defence and they need time to gel but shay doesnt seem to command the defence that and would like to see a bit of added aggression to the way he treats players who F8ck up.....That said he is guarunteed to stop an almost certain goal at least once a game..... defo our best signing

Fwiw, in my observation, there is a good case for claiming that Given is the best keeper in the EPL at present (certainly the most consistent).
That said, I would not claim he is "world class", in the sense that if you were to include him in a World XI alongside the likes of Messi and Cannavaro etc, it would cause little or no comment.
For I firmly believe that whilst playing standards in the EPL have risen during the last few years, goalkeeping standards have, if anything gone down (at least relatively).
For up until 15 or 20 years ago, top British keepers such as Shilton, Clemence, Jennings and Southall etc were at least as good as those found elsewhere (imo).
And when these declined, they were replaced by genuinely world class foreigners like Schmeichel and (pre-injury) Cech.
Yet for some reason, these have not been replaced at the top clubs by the very top keepers, For example, Van der Saar is undoubtedly a fine keeper, arguably "world class" at his peak. But No.1 at the age of 39 for England's top club?
Ditto Jens Lehmann at Arsenal - a good keeper, no doubt, but always No.2 to Kahn amongst Germans and even then allowed to go on far too long at the Arse.
And I would argue that this decline is most evident in the England team, where imo in years gone by, David James, Rob Green and Ben Foster would be lucky to have gained a dozen caps between them throughout their entire career, never mind vied for the No.1 spot, as they are presently doing.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Fwiw, in my observation, there is a good case for claiming that Given is the best keeper in the EPL at present (certainly the most consistent).
That said, I would not claim he is "world class", in the sense that if you were to include him in a World XI alongside the likes of Messi and Cannavaro etc, it would cause little or no comment.
For I firmly believe that whilst playing standards in the EPL have risen during the last few years, goalkeeping standards have, if anything gone down (at least relatively).
For up until 15 or 20 years ago, top British keepers such as Shilton, Clemence, Jennings and Southall etc were at least as good as those found elsewhere (imo).
And when these declined, they were replaced by genuinely world class foreigners like Schmeichel and (pre-injury) Cech.
Yet for some reason, these have not been replaced at the top clubs by the very top keepers, For example, Van der Saar is undoubtedly a fine keeper, arguably "world class" at his peak. But No.1 at the age of 39 for England's top club?
Ditto Jens Lehmann at Arsenal - a good keeper, no doubt, but always No.2 to Kahn amongst Germans and even then allowed to go on far too long at the Arse.
And I would argue that this decline is most evident in the England team, where imo in years gone by, David James, Rob Green and Ben Foster would be lucky to have gained a dozen caps between them throughout their entire career, never mind vied for the No.1 spot, as they are presently doing.

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I think that in those days those goal keepers were a long way ahead of the rest.
It seems to me that the standard of goal keepers at pretty much all premier league clubs is very good and it is more difficult for the cream to look a cut above.

The lighter ball probably swerves more these days but otherwise some of the conditions probably have improved for keepers. Better referee protection, better pitches around the goal mouth area (mind you this benefits all out field players as well)

Shay Given is a very good goal keeper but he has some weaknesses(could be better at coming and claiming crosses)

I think there's been a shift in what's deemed important in a keeper now. The old-school keepers mentioned above were strong characters, technically good, consistent goalkeepers who managed their box well and took high balls.

Maybe the new balls have caused less emphasis on catching the ball, but the new rules have also led to goalkeepers being the first line of attack in that distribution is becoming more valued than it was. Reina is a great example of this.

Personality is a big attribute. VDS may not be the most gifted keeper but he has the gravitas (for want of a better word) to fill the MU no. 1 jersey, whereas more talented keepers didn't.

I like a keeper to be commanding and to settle his back 4. Given certainly performs the latter. Seaman in the mid 90s was top class and Given is similar in style. I also think Given has the confidence and personality to play at the very biggest clubs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnul...ital_pass.html

Given is basically identical to Casilias imo, with Cas probably edging it because he has played for a big team in big matches which Given hasn't. Both have weaknesses which people seem to ignore a lot of the time.

Buffon hands down is the best, he just has everything. He controls his box so well.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

Given is basically identical to Casilias imo, with Cas probably edging it because he has played for a big team in big matches which Given hasn't. Both have weaknesses which people seem to ignore a lot of the time.

Buffon hands down is the best, he just has everything. He controls his box so well.

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yep cech used to be the best IMO but dodgey a lot of the time since his run in with mr. Hunt

Given was caught out big time there by the free kick.

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

Given was caught out big time there by the free kick.

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I think Robinho deserves a fair share of the blame for leaving the wall, the ball went through the gap he left.

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Originally Posted by elroy

I think Robinho deserves a fair share of the blame for leaving the wall, the ball went through the gap he left.

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Yeah true, but I just think that Given should have had it covered.

Given reminds me of Reina a bit. Both know they haven't got the goods to come for crosses (Given's a it short; Reina just lacks co-ordination) but they do a good job of covering for it by organising their defences well. Unfortunately, neither has a fully dependable back four to cover for him.

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Originally Posted by elroy

I think Robinho deserves a fair share of the blame for leaving the wall, the ball went through the gap he left.

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It was de Jong, not Robinho.

Ah man, gotta feel for Shay tonight, how many great saves does the guy have to make!

Made a great save from Fletcher and then next ball in Rooney scores the winners. Shay deserves to have a half decent defence in front of him.

Ya, some disgraceful defending.

He saves their asses and they do the same thing again 20secs later, and let's be honest Rooney along with the rest of the United attackers are no beasts in the air

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

Ya, some disgraceful defending.

He saves their asses and they do the same thing again 20secs later, and let's be honest Rooney along with the rest of the United attackers are no beasts in the air

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Take off the green glasses, made some good saves but was asleep for there first goal, have to do it for 90 minutes

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Fwiw, in my observation, there is a good case for claiming that Given is the best keeper in the EPL at present (certainly the most consistent).

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I actually think Reina is the best keeper in the Premier League at the moment. As good a keeper as Shay is (and he is good) he does have a tendency to stay rooted to his line and sometimes keepers have to come and claim balls or punch balls away just to relieve pressure.