First Division 2010

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

His team selection at the moment is a bit eye-brow raising. And apparently we were dire last night, totally shorn of confidence. But I think out excellent start masked the fact that this is by and large a very young and inexperienced side with some very obvious flaws. I really didn't expect us to do as well as we have.

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Its a total balls up, there is no one to blame but the manager when your results go tits up like ours have. I really dont get this fluffy mentality amongst Derry fans. I really didnt expect us to do so well.....? Molloy, Deery and Doherty didnt stay for 200 a week, Kenny got a decent budget for the first division. Our attendance is also double that of most other clubs (which will drop dramatically if we dont go up this year). So literally 'King Kenny' will leave us bust again if we dont go straight up this season.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

On the other hand, the scary statistic for Derry is that in the last seven games Monaghan have taken 18 points while Derry have only taken a mere 6.

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And Kenny is still blamless amongst a good % of our support. Blinkered. A win tomorrow night is his lifeline as far as im concerned.

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Originally Posted by dortie

Its a total balls up, there is no one to blame but the manager when your results go tits up like ours have. I really dont get this fluffy mentality amongst Derry fans. I really didnt expect us to do so well.....? Molloy, Deery and Doherty didnt stay for 200 a week, Kenny got a decent budget for the first division. Our attendance is also double that of most other clubs (which will drop dramatically if we dont go up this year). So literally 'King Kenny' will leave us bust again if we dont go straight up this season.

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Who could he have got with this brilliant budget? Doesn't matter if Kenny was driving a dumptruck full of transfer cash, we bought local and we bought unproven. You really thought we were going to go straight up with Parky, Scoltock, Friars, Sweeney and a bunch of young lads with no experience or pedigree? Come off it....and what fans have you been talking to? Kenny has shipped loads of stick, except it's been generally been measured with the view we've been playing above ourselves.

Talk about blinkered. I really can't believe anyone thought we'd just saunter through the first division.

Goal diffrence might be all that seperates the top two come season end and theres not a titter of diffrence in that either!!:confused:

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Originally Posted by bullit

Goal diffrence might be all that seperates the top two come season end and theres not a titter of diffrence in that either!!:confused:

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Quit that talk would ya, its making me nervous.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Who could he have got with this brilliant budget? Doesn't matter if Kenny was driving a dumptruck full of transfer cash, we bought local and we bought unproven. You really thought we were going to go straight up with Parky, Scoltock, Friars, Sweeney and a bunch of young lads with no experience or pedigree? Come off it....and what fans have you been talking to? Kenny has shipped loads of stick, except it's been generally been measured with the view we've been playing above ourselves.

Talk about blinkered. I really can't believe anyone thought we'd just saunter through the first division.

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You only mention the players we brought in this season and fail to recognise theres quite a few in our squad who Kenny believed was capable of winning the Premier league last season (most likely still on twice the average wage in Derry).
I talk to alot of fans, and if you think beating Salthill and Mervue is playing above ourselves then i dont know what games your watching week in week out ?

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Originally Posted by dortie

You only mention the players we brought in this season and fail to recognise theres quite a few in our squad who Kenny believed was capable of winning the Premier league last season (most likely still on twice the average wage in Derry).
I talk to alot of fans, and if you think beating Salthill and Mervue is playing above ourselves then i dont know what games your watching week in week out ?

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Guys we are a young team and have been playing really well. The break for the World Cup affected the Club. We have had some of our best players injured ie Deery, Harkin, and Molloy, Farrens just come back from Illness. This season will stand alot of our younger players better for next yr, how many of our younger players would have gotten a game if we were in the Premier. They will become stronger and better players. Some of our fans think we have a right to win every match and are too blinded. I went to watch Liverpool Northampton town with my son wed nite and I can tell you id rather watch Derry anyday of the week than watching that rubbish. So get behind the team guys

I still fancy ourselves (Limerick) to make the play-offs. We've to play Waterford and Shels, so its mostly in our own hands. We've Monaghan as well, but so have Waterford and Shels ...and Cork. Tonights fixture is the most important for us, and our chances of the play offs will really be decided here.

Just took this from our forum! Not typing the same thing again

Just looked at the league table and am ****ting myself for tonight game! A loss leaves a shels win to go level with us and puts Limerick within a point! A draw still leaves us in a tight spot with mons next week! Where as a win leaves us 1 point behind mons with that game next week and 4 behind Derry who reLly should mop up against mervue! If ever there was a season defining game this is it! For the first time this year we've started to be creative in midfield and not just engines! We have a good balance of passing and tackling with Rub and the bombing on off JK along with some goals! if we can play to that level and not make any stupid mistakes in the back ala Shammy Long v Mervue then I'd fancy us to notch up a decent win! Were 5/2 -1 with Paddy Power a decent bet me thinks

Good post, sums up what every fan of every club in the top 6 is feeling, even though our chances are far more remote.

The fun of being a football fan, not really giving up even though you know how unrealistic it is.

Huge night altogether, bring it on.

Derry's squad is not that young or inexperienced.
Players like, McCallion, McChrystal, Doherty, Farren, Molloy and Deery have all played in a very strong Derry Premier division outfit in the past.
Parky, whilst getting slated in muckerville, is a class act and was one of our top performers in this division in 2007 (when IMO the standard was much higher than it is the past 2 seasons). Easily good enough to play in a top first division side and in the Prem.
Scoltock, Friars, Sweeney and Cassidy have all played numerous years in the Premier Division of the IL.
The young lads Muckers speak of are Shane and Patrick McEleney (Irish Under 19 internationals), James McLean, Ruari Harkin and David McDaid (all with Premier Division experience with Derry), Seamus Sharkey (prem and first div experience last season with Harps and Derry), McBride, McCrudden, McAuley and Lafferty (who have all just returned from spell in England or Scotland respectively)

I think we (first division and even a few Prem division sides) would all be happy with a squad boasting those players.

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Originally Posted by dortie

You only mention the players we brought in this season and fail to recognise theres quite a few in our squad who Kenny believed was capable of winning the Premier league last season (most likely still on twice the average wage in Derry).
I talk to alot of fans, and if you think beating Salthill and Mervue is playing above ourselves then i dont know what games your watching week in week out ?

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As Flexy pointed out, a few of our most important (and experienced) have been injured for most of the year, not to mention Farren’s slowly getting back to fitness. As for the ‘Salthill/Mervue’ comment, it’s a bit easy to pick on them and ignore the good sides in the division – Mons, Waterford, Limerick not to mention Shels and Cork, who are never easy to travel to. Throw in a ‘do-or-die’ derby against Harps, and it’s obviously competitive.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Derry's squad is not that young or inexperienced.
Players like, McCallion, McChrystal, Doherty, Farren, Molloy and Deery have all played in a very strong Derry Premier division outfit in the past.

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As I said Deery, club captain, has been injured most of the season and Farren has had to battle back to fitness after cancer. The two players, out of the above, who would really make the difference putting sides away…

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Parky, whilst getting slated in muckerville, is a class act and was one of our top performers in this division in 2007 (when IMO the standard was much higher than it is the past 2 seasons). Easily good enough to play in a top first division side and in the Prem.

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We’re just going to flat out have to disagree here – maybe he was three years ago, but he ain’t anymore.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Scoltock, Friars, Sweeney and Cassidy have all played numerous years in the Premier Division of the IL.

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For the lower teams – Institute, Newry City, Limavady –in a league which has different demands than the First Division. Ability in LOI unproven before this season.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

The young lads Muckers speak of are Shane and Patrick McEleney (Irish Under 19 internationals), James McLean, Ruari Harkin and David McDaid (all with Premier Division experience with Derry), Seamus Sharkey (prem and first div experience last season with Harps and Derry), McBride, McCrudden, McAuley and Lafferty (who have all just returned from spell in England or Scotland respectively)

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None of them, aside from McLean, have any prem experience with City. Harkin, Sharkey and McDaid barely featured, instead going out on loan. And the rest, as you say, just returning and so are young and unproven in LOI. Which is what I’m saying.

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Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

I think we (first division and even a few Prem division sides) would all be happy with a squad boasting those players.

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Don’t disagree – it’s fine squad, loads of potential. But potential doesn’t carry off a league as physical, and demanding, as the First Division. IF ALL these young players turned out to be fantastic acquisitions, who can deal with the rigours of the league (given the number of them, highly unlikely) and IF the squad stays injury free (which hasn’t happened at all) then we’re as good as you say. But realistically that was never going to be the case.

Which other squads, on paper, would you rate as on par or better than Derrys?

For me, the only one that comes near is Waterfords. Obviously Mons are proving there's more to success than individuals and have built a fine team with a couple of quality players. But if you were simply to look at players

To be fair probably just Waterford's, who I backed for the title pre-season. So, yeah, looking just at players we are pretty strong. Still, as you say it's more than the players. Squads, like Mons, have come together to be a consistent and tough side and others - such and Shels and Limerick - we're always going to be challenging after the last couple of years.

My point is even with a good squad, staying injury free and fulfilling its potential, I still would not have seen us cantering off with what is a very competitive league. Just because we threatened to do doesn't mean City were always shoe-in's. Not that I wouldn't have preferred just winning our games and not having to go through the nerve jangling, nail chewing of the next few weeks...

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

My point is even with a good squad, staying injury free and fulfilling its potential, I still would not have seen us cantering off with what is a very competitive league. Just because we threatened to do doesn't mean City were always shoe-in's. Not that I wouldn't have preferred just winning our games and not having to go through the nerve jangling, nail chewing of the next few weeks...

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But I think the point is ye were cantering off with it. Regardless of your squad or manager any team in any league who goes from being ahead by 12 to behind by 1 has to ask questions and have a look at the manager. It's his job to motivate the players and get their heads right.

Obviously the end of the season is the time to judge properly but the rate ye've lost points is ridiculous. No team with the quality ye have should have let that happen.

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Originally Posted by micls

But I think the point is ye were cantering off with it. Regardless of your squad or manager any team in any league who goes from being ahead by 12 to behind by 1 has to ask questions and have a look at the manager. It's his job to motivate the players and get their heads right.

Obviously the end of the season is the time to judge properly but the rate ye've lost points is ridiculous. No team with the quality ye have should have let that happen.

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I'm not convinced. By the same argument, Kenny gets all the praise for having the team play out of their skin. So what are we saying, he goes from brilliant to bone-headed overnight? Look manager's made plenty of mistakes recently but our demise is more than just tactical or motivational foul-up's, it has also to do with the inexperienced and unproven nature of our squad.
Our 'quality' is arguable, therefore so is the assertion about whether us not letting the collapse happen.

Look - I'm not saying 'ach sure it's grand, we're rubbish anyway, whatever.' We had one hand on the trophy, of course questions are being asked and if we don't go up Kenny is going to get plenty of flax, rightly. But I think it has to be kept in mind - we were never a side of world beaters and a league win was never a gimme (sorry McBride's) like some are suggesting. I'm just not as surprised as some that teams are picking us off. Disappointed sure, but not surprised.

Kenny's biggest flaw as a manager has always been his inability to see a great season out to the end. I dont know if he just ends up crappin himself or what but he doesnt seem to have too much bottle.

Just my two cents.

Question has to be asked, he's obviously got form. Though personally I'd hold this against him less than losing out to Cork and Shels for the league.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

I'm not convinced. By the same argument, Kenny gets all the praise for having the team play out of their skin. So what are we saying, he goes from brilliant to bone-headed overnight? Look manager's made plenty of mistakes recently but our demise is more than just tactical or motivational foul-up's, it has also to do with the inexperienced and unproven nature of our squad.
Our 'quality' is arguable, therefore so is the assertion about whether us not letting the collapse happen.

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Em, yeah. Kenny did get the praise when ye were winning all around ye.....He signed an excellent squad for this division and had them playing good football. It's not like this is something we didn't know he was capable of. Since though he has shown that has struggled to get that squad through the rough patch.

Every team hits a rough patch in a season, what defines the team and manager is how you deal with it and how quickly you come out of it. Your team and Kenny are struggling bigtime over the past month or 2. Tonight will be vital, you simply have to beat mervue and play well to get the confidence right for the run-in. If you do that and win the league then Kenny will get the praise for turning it around. If not then he'l get the rightly deserved criticism.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Look - I'm not saying 'ach sure it's grand, we're rubbish anyway, whatever.' We had one hand on the trophy, of course questions are being asked and if we don't go up Kenny is going to get plenty of flax, rightly. But I think it has to be kept in mind - we were never a side of world beaters and a league win was never a gimme (sorry McBride's) like some are suggesting. I'm just not as surprised as some that teams are picking us off. Disappointed sure, but not surprised.

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I don't see how any fan could not be surprised at going from 12 points ahead to a point behind in a couple of months. Maybe at the start of the season you didnt expect it to be easy but are you seriously saying when ye were 12 clear you thought ye'd lose that lead? I dont think Kenny did, or your players.

His job this season has been to manage the best squad in the division to win it with a mixture of experienced players and some newbies. If he is 'the best manager in the league' as most of your fans thought not long ago then he'l accomplish this. If he doesn't then he should be sacked for bottling it.

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Originally Posted by micls

Em, yeah. Kenny did get the praise when ye were winning all around ye.....He signed an excellent squad for this division and had them playing good football. It's not like this is something we didn't know he was capable of. Since though he has shown that has struggled to get that squad through the rough patch.

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Personally I didn't really see Kenny getting the praise, more of a oh it was inevitable with that squad kind of thing. He's certainly getting the stick now, a lot of it deserved, some of it not imo...

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Originally Posted by micls

Every team hits a rough patch in a season, what defines the team and manager is how you deal with it and how quickly you come out of it. Your team and Kenny are struggling bigtime over the past month or 2. Tonight will be vital, you simply have to beat mervue and play well to get the confidence right for the run-in. If you do that and win the league then Kenny will get the praise for turning it around. If not then he'l get the rightly deserved criticism.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by micls

I don't see how any fan could not be surprised at going from 12 points ahead to a point behind in a couple of months. Maybe at the start of the season you didnt expect it to be easy but are you seriously saying when ye were 12 clear you thought ye'd lose that lead? I dont think Kenny did, or your players.

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Didn't say that. Just pointing out the gap between us and the Mons, Limerick's, Waterford's of this world was never 12 points. And recent results have borne it out. Did you think we'd ever get 12 points clear? Did anyone? I certainly didn't, our squad was never that much better.

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Originally Posted by micls

His job this season has been to manage the best squad in the division to win it with a mixture of experienced players and some newbies. If he is 'the best manager in the league' as most of your fans thought not long ago then he'l accomplish this. If he doesn't then he should be sacked for bottling it.

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Don't know where this 'best manager in the league' thing came from, certainly not me. But this 'some newbies' comment is what I'm getting at - it's not 'some' it's mostly. Out of a squad of 24 we have seven or truly experienced players - and that's including Deery, who's been out most of the season, Farren, who has struggled post-illness, and Parkhouse, who is dire. The rest are youngsters or IL imports - potentially good, yeah, but unproven.

'Best squad in the league'? Come on, it's been argued to death - I don't think so obviously. But regardless of who's best, there's never been much to choose between a host of First Division squads and it's represented in the table. I'll be furious if we don't go up, but everyone has to be realistic about the difference between how good we are and how good we can be.