Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm in Austria right now and can confirm it's listed in the Austrian speciality section of menus and billboards.

And can also confirm it's yummy!

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Try the Sachertorte.

Another former Irish international, or clown would be a better way of describing him, fully backs O'Shea to get the job.

What I find so concerning is how many Irish "pundits" dont care anymore about the national team to the point they'll give it to virtually anyone...even the praise the likes of Meyler and Cawley give O'Shea...the term "damning with faint praise" comes to mind, quite concerning if the best praise they can give him is "he's liked by the players.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Off point, but I'm going to make it. we have better players than Albania. It makes it harder us not being there

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I've been thinking about this and it may or may not be true. It doesn't actually matter. I'm beginning to think it's not the individual standard that counts but more the collective understanding of how to play a team game. Part of that can be coached into a team. I read a piece on the Italian team on Saturday morning that the coach has 6 mantras written on a whiteboard at the training ground, rules that players must follow.

The six football “commandments” pinned to the whiteboard at Italy’s Coverciano training base before they departed for Germany made no mention of PlayStations or headphones. What they listed instead was a series of guiding principles for how the European champions should defend their title on the pitch.

1) Continuous pressing. 2) Control the play (ball management). 3) Tied together (distances between teammates: short, close). 4) Ferocious reaggression (when the ball is lost). 5) Recomposition (get back to your places). 6) Order, study, and prepare (to get back to pressing).

I particularly liked 3. Sometimes the gaps between our lines are huge. I took a screenshot a couple of years ago when Ronan Curtis was on the ball, 25 yards from goal. It wasn't even a counter attack. There was nobody with 20m of him.

But whether it's coached or whether it's instinct based on years of growing up playing the game properly, the point is good teams do the right things as a unit. I thought when Switzerland visited us recently they bullied us into accepting that they were dictating the game. It was almost Subbuteo-like how they could manipulate where our players had to be on the pitch. This wasn't because they had X player who could tackle or Y player who could dribble, it was because they all knew what to do together.

So I'm rambling a bit now - confusing myself over whether it's cultural or coached (maybe it can be either or both) but this is what frustrates me watching Ireland. Even England with all their quality were unable to control a game they dominated early last night.

This is where I had sympathy with what I think Kenny was trying to do.

I remember Junior posting years ago here that there'll always be a bit of huff and puff about how Ireland plays. At times huff and puff was all we had though. And tippy tappy without any huff and puff will only ever end one way too. I'm reluctantly coming around to Kerr's view that under the two Dutch technical directors we were playing technically sound but soulless football at youth level. Lots of pretty passing but no "street football".

Another coaching quote I like is Ange Postecolglou saying he tells his Spurs players to play like they were kids. Try the audacious, be ambitious, express yourselves. I loved Bellingham's interview where he said football is what he loves doing most, it's what gives him joy, it's his release. Wes and Andy Reid spring to mind. Robbie and Duff too.

Above all so far in the Euros I've seen every player in the good teams really really want to be on the ball. If they don't have it they look for it. And if a guy senses his teammmate is going to receive it he's already there to be the next option. Usually it's two players sensing this, and others anticipate what's coming next.

I hate to say it but I don't see any of that that at all in our teams. With a couple of exceptions I don't think we have the courage to want to be the next receiver.


PS: I also loved this:

A mocked-up image of the manager in Thursday’s edition of La Gazzetta dello Sport showed him holding up an alternative list of commandments that included restrictions on when players could use their phones and a ban on players walking around with headphones on and “a stupid look on their face” – a direct quote from Spalletti, albeit not a new one.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I've been thinking about this and it may or may not be true. It doesn't actually matter. I'm beginning to think it's not the individual standard that counts but more the collective understanding of how to play a team game. Part of that can be coached into a team. I read a piece on the Italian team on Saturday morning that the coach has 6 mantras written on a whiteboard at the training ground, rules that players must follow.

The six football “commandments” pinned to the whiteboard at Italy’s Coverciano training base before they departed for Germany made no mention of PlayStations or headphones. What they listed instead was a series of guiding principles for how the European champions should defend their title on the pitch.

1) Continuous pressing. 2) Control the play (ball management). 3) Tied together (distances between teammates: short, close). 4) Ferocious reaggression (when the ball is lost). 5) Recomposition (get back to your places). 6) Order, study, and prepare (to get back to pressing).

I particularly liked 3. Sometimes the gaps between our lines are huge. I took a screenshot a couple of years ago when Ronan Curtis was on the ball, 25 yards from goal. It wasn't even a counter attack. There was nobody with 20m of him.

But whether it's coached or whether it's instinct based on years of growing up playing the game properly, the point is good teams do the right things as a unit. I thought when Switzerland visited us recently they bullied us into accepting that they were dictating the game. It was almost Subbuteo-like how they could manipulate where our players had to be on the pitch. This wasn't because they had X player who could tackle or Y player who could dribble, it was because they all knew what to do together.

So I'm rambling a bit now - confusing myself over whether it's cultural or coached (maybe it can be either or both) but this is what frustrates me watching Ireland. Even England with all their quality were unable to control a game they dominated early last night.

This is where I had sympathy with what I think Kenny was trying to do.

I remember Junior posting years ago here that there'll always be a bit of huff and puff about how Ireland plays. At times huff and puff was all we had though. And tippy tappy without any huff and puff will only ever end one way too. I'm reluctantly coming around to Kerr's view that under the two Dutch technical directors we were playing technically sound but soulless football at youth level. Lots of pretty passing but no "street football".

Another coaching quote I like is Ange Postecolglou saying he tells his Spurs players to play like they were kids. Try the audacious, be ambitious, express yourselves. I loved Bellingham's interview where he said football is what he loves doing most, it's what gives him joy, it's his release. Wes and Andy Reid spring to mind. Robbie and Duff too.

Above all so far in the Euros I've seen every player in the good teams really really want to be on the ball. If they don't have it they look for it. And if a guy senses his teammmate is going to receive it he's already there to be the next option. Usually it's two players sensing this, and others anticipate what's coming next.

I hate to say it but I don't see any of that that at all in our teams. With a couple of exceptions I don't think we have the courage to want to be the next receiver.


PS: I also loved this:

A mocked-up image of the manager in Thursday’s edition of La Gazzetta dello Sport showed him holding up an alternative list of commandments that included restrictions on when players could use their phones and a ban on players walking around with headphones on and “a stupid look on their face” – a direct quote from Spalletti, albeit not a new one.

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Kerr's view is things were better when he was around, colour me shocked. Ngl when I listen to people like Kerr it feels like a self serving prophecy and about making them look great rather than actually caring about Irish football.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Kerr's view is things were better when he was around, colour me shocked. Ngl when I listen to people like Kerr it feels like a self serving prophecy and about making them look great rather than actually caring about Irish football.

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Which is why I said "reluctantly". He has been too bitter to take on face value but I still think he's close to the truth when he says we're lacking street football instincts. I'm not close enough to grassroots football to know though.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I've been thinking about this and it may or may not be true. It doesn't actually matter. I'm beginning to think it's not the individual standard that counts but more the collective understanding of how to play a team game. Part of that can be coached into a team. I read a piece on the Italian team on Saturday morning that the coach has 6 mantras written on a whiteboard at the training ground, rules that players must follow

The six football “commandments” pinned to the whiteboard at Italy’s Coverciano training base before they departed for Germany made no mention of PlayStations or headphones. What they listed instead was a series of guiding principles for how the European champions should defend their title on the pitch.

1) Continuous pressing. 2) Control the play (ball management). 3) Tied together (distances between teammates: short, close). 4) Ferocious reaggression (when the ball is lost). 5) Recomposition (get back to your places). 6) Order, study, and prepare (to get back to pressing).

I particularly liked 3. Sometimes the gaps between our lines are huge. I took a screenshot a couple of years ago when Ronan Curtis was on the ball, 25 yards from goal. It wasn't even a counter attack. There was nobody with 20m of him.

But whether it's coached or whether it's instinct based on years of growing up playing the game properly, the point is good teams do the right things as a unit. I thought when Switzerland visited us recently they bullied us into accepting that thewy were dictating the game. It was almost Subbuteo-like where they could manipulate where our players had to be on the pitch. This wasn't because they had X player who could tackle or Y player who could dribble, it was because they all knew what to do together.

So I'm rambling a bit now - confusing myself over whether it's cultural or coached (maybe it can be either or both) but this is what frustrates me watching Ireland. Even England with all their quality were unable to control a game they dominated early last night.

This is where I had sympathy with what I think Kenny was trying to do.

I remember Junior posting years ago here that there'll always bea bit of huff and puff about how Ireland plays. At times huff and puffwas all we had though. And tippy tappy without any huff and puff will only ever end one way too. I'm reluctantly coming around to Kerr's view that under the two Dutch technical directors we were playing technically sound but soulless football. Lots of pretty passing but no "street football"

Another coaching quote I like is Ange Postecolglou saying he tells his Spurs players to play like they were kids. Try the audacious, be ambitious, express yourselves.

Above all so far in the Euros I've seen every player in the good teams really really want to be on the ball. If they don't have it they look for it. And if a guy senses his teammmate is going to receive it he's already there to be the next option. Usually it's two players sensing this, and others anticipate what's coming next.

I hate to say it but I don't see that at all in our teams. I don't think we have the courage to want to be the next receiver.

PS: I also loved this:

A mocked-up image of the manager in Thursday’s edition of La Gazzetta dello Sport showed him holding up an alternative list of commandments that included restrictions on when players could use their phones and a ban on players walking around with headphones on and “a stupid look on their face” – a direct quote from Spalletti, albeit not a new one.

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Good post.

England have terrific players but Southgate is incredibly poor so they'll lose control of games to any really decent team. It's why an Italy or Germany will almost certainly knock them out at the business end of a competition in most cases, but even a Denmark, Croatia or Switzerland, who are technically very good and tactically so well organised often can.

O'Shea is our Southgate. Difference being we have Kelleher (would be England's best keeper imo), some very talented defenders (O'Brien and Collins would make the England u21 team) and Ferguson (would be a current England u21 - may have been called up in the Autumn for an England cap before injury and subsequent loss of form.) The rest are premier league journeymen (Coleman was very good in his day) and very good Championship players. A cockney mate told me Parrott was one of the best youth players he had seen in years - I don't think he'll be a top premier league player but if he became a good one or a good player in a decent league that's okay. Cannon is one to watch imo. Lawal and Moran are too. England just have so many options.

I loved that paragraph about Switzerland and it's so true.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Which is why I said "reluctantly". He has been too bitter to take on face value but I still think he's close to the truth when he says we're lacking street football instincts. I'm not close enough to grassroots football to know though.

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I would say there is no "reluctantly" he's just flat out wrong. I wont completely throw him under the bus as I dont think he's the only one but him combined with the amount of pundits supporting O'Shea has all but confirmed what I've already thought...that this is all some effort to make the whole set up a "jobs for the boys" sort of club and it's all been done to make them look good at the expense of the NT. I mean just look at them slamming Kenny but then jumping to O'Shea's defence when very little has actually changed!

Tbh Ill reserve judgment on the whole "lacking street football instincts" just like I will on most things with the Irish team until we get a proper manager in place as the managers we've had for the last 4 years are very good at making any player look terrible.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Which is why I said "reluctantly". He has been too bitter to take on face value but I still think he's close to the truth when he says we're lacking street football instincts. I'm not close enough to grassroots football to know though.

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The loss of street football has been huge. I met a Spurs youth team coach on holiday a few years ago (15 or 20) and he was talking about how he couldn't get over how technically good the Dublin and Belfast lads were when they were training so little at local clubs compared to the local English lads in his academy. He remarked how they were street footballers and talked about how that's been lost over there a bit. The irony is it's been lost over here to the point where it's nearly non-existent and over there, they have the cage football. Parrott is a bit of a street footballer, as is Jack Byrne. Andy Reid was the classic street footballer. Hoolahan definitely was. I can't think of many others in the last few years.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Good post.

England have terrific players but Southgate is incredibly poor so they'll lose control of games to any really decent team. It's why an Italy or Germany will almost certainly knock them out at the business end of a competition in most cases, but even a Denmark, Croatia or Switzerland, who are technically very good and tactically so well organised often can.

O'Shea is our Southgate. Difference being we have Kelleher (would be England's best keeper imo), some very talented defenders (O'Brien and Collins would make the England u21 team) and Ferguson (would be a current England u21 - may have been called up in the Autumn for an England cap before injury and subsequent loss of form.) The rest are premier league journeymen (Coleman was very good in his day) and very good Championship players. A cockney mate told me Parrott was one of the best youth players he had seen in years - I don't think he'll be a top premier league player but if he became a good one or a good player in a decent league that's okay. Cannon is one to watch imo. Lawal and Moran are too. England just have so many options.

I loved that paragraph about Switzerland and it's so true.

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Ken Early said something similar after the France game at home, that watching France move us around the pitch was like watching sheepdogs herding sheep. To put it in a sporting context, I thought it was more like watching the Mayweather-McGregor "fight". After taking two rounds to figure McGregor out, Mayweather marched him around the ring, put McGregor where he wanted him to stand, and then hit him, and then repeated it for the next eight rounds.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Good post.

England have terrific players but Southgate is incredibly poor so they'll lose control of games to any really decent team. It's why an Italy or Germany will almost certainly knock them out at the business end of a competition in most cases, but even a Denmark, Croatia or Switzerland, who are technically very good and tactically so well organised often can.

O'Shea is our Southgate. Difference being we have Kelleher (would be England's best keeper imo), some very talented defenders (O'Brien and Collins would make the England u21 team) and Ferguson (would be a current England u21 - may have been called up in the Autumn for an England cap before injury and subsequent loss of form.) The rest are premier league journeymen (Coleman was very good in his day) and very good Championship players. A cockney mate told me Parrott was one of the best youth players he had seen in years - I don't think he'll be a top premier league player but if he became a good one or a good player in a decent league that's okay. Cannon is one to watch imo. Lawal and Moran are too. England just have so many options.

I loved that paragraph about Switzerland and it's so true.

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I personally wouldn't write off Parrott just yet, I think the upcoming season will be a defining one for him as his loan in Holland was probably the first time at senior level he started to look like the player we hoped he could be. I think after this season we'll have a very good idea about where his future lies.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I personally wouldn't write off Parrott just yet, I think the upcoming season will be a defining one for him as his loan in Holland was probably the first time at senior level he started to look like the player we hoped he could be. I think after this season we'll have a very good idea about where his future lies.

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I agree. Parrott has it in his locker to be a very good player for us and play at a very decent level. His problem is that he was a world class youth player, just like Jack Byrne was and was held up as the saviour of Irish football.

He's a prime example of the importance of the right loan. Conor Bradley goes to Bolton, does very well and is now a star at Liverpool. Jake O'Brien goes to Belgium and does very well and gets a move to Lyon. Troy's loan moves just didn't seem to be the right fit for his skillset. I would have thought a more technical team in Europe rather than the likes of Preston.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I would say there is no "reluctantly" he's just flat out wrong. I wont completely throw him under the bus as I dont think he's the only one but him combined with the amount of pundits supporting O'Shea has all but confirmed what I've already thought...that this is all some effort to make the whole set up a "jobs for the boys" sort of club and it's all been done to make them look good at the expense of the NT. I mean just look at them slamming Kenny but then jumping to O'Shea's defence when very little has actually changed!

Tbh Ill reserve judgment on the whole "lacking street football instincts" just like I will on most things with the Irish team until we get a proper manager in place as the managers we've had for the last 4 years are very good at making any player look terrible.

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Why is it in the interests of the Irish media/punditry that John O'Shea should be appointed?
What's in it for them if he proves a success? Lots of stories.
What's in it for them if he fails miserably? Lots of stories.
What jobs for what boys? They already have jobs.
Slamming Kenny? He had the most benign media coverage. Irish journalists gave him the longest honeymoon in history.

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Originally Posted by Snapshot

Why is it in the interests of the Irish media/punditry that John O'Shea should be appointed?
What's in it for them if he proves a success? Lots of stories.
What's in it for them if he fails miserably? Lots of stories.
What jobs for what boys? They already have jobs.
Slamming Kenny? He had the most benign media coverage. Irish journalists gave him the longest honeymoon in history.

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Well more so the pundits rather than the media. My first and main feeling was it's either A. a former teammate/ friend or B. The FAI behind the scene is twists the arms of pundits to say something nice about O'Shea's management so they have an excuse without blaming the fact that they wasted 8+ months and 5 friendlies just to end up with their assistant manager who has no experience as a manager....or C. A combination of both.

Now the main reason why im suspicious is the amount they are backing O'Shea, its bordering on desperation at this stage. Now it could be the factors I've mentioned before or an alterer motive at play that they haven't mentioned because what I don't get is its a manager less experienced than Kenny, who sets the team up similarly to Kenny and was ultimately part of the team that failed abysmally in the Euro 2024 qualifying....on top of all that all the factors that were at play during Kenny's reign that he was criticised for are still present and yet despite everything I've mentioned here already O'Shea is receiving none of the same criticism that Kenny got and is back without any pushback.

Now I dont know about you but I have a pretty logical head on my shoulders and I have a keen eye for things that don't add up and for me all this support for O'Shea defies all logic, so what I'm keen now is to uncover what the real reason is for these pundits to be so supportive of a manager that has done the square root of F all to warrant the job getting the job.

I think there's definitely an element of not wanting to publicly criticise the 118 cap international also. In the same way as current squad players will always say in every interview that he should get the job, whether they believe it or not, the same probably applies to ex players and other Irish football people to some extent. Half them probably think he's useless, but they don't care enough about the team to say something that might be seen as controversial and generate headlines that might possibly be critical of them for turning on an Irish football "legend". So it's easier to just say "ah yeah, just give it to JOS, sure he's a great fella".

Extract from Dan McDonnell's free weekly newsletter, written by Sean O'Connor this week. It's a very good newsletter actually, I look forward to getting it. You can add yourself the the mailing list on the Indo website I think.

While my colleagues Dan McDonnell and Aidan Fitzmaurice were in Aveiro to cover Ireland’s clash with Euro 2024-bound Portugal, I was making my way to Vrbovec, a small town around one hour east of Zagreb, for the second match of the U-21s June double-header in Croatia. As Dan and Aidan were reporting on what turned out to be another disappointing away trip for the Boys in Green, my jaunt to central Europe suggested the future could be brighter than some might think. Jim Crawford’s men, who are targeting a first-ever European Championship qualification later this year, were full value for their 3-2 win over five-time finalists Croatia seven days ago before they came from behind to draw 2-2 against England’s U-20s on Tuesday - a team that, just last March, included Crystal Palace’s Adam Wharton, named in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2024 squad last week. Talk about strength and depth.

Three days ago, as I walked into the Vrbovec town stadium, I noticed a figure sitting near the press box, just at the back of the stand. It was Lee Carsley. The England U-21 boss was on a flying visit to the Balkan nation to cast an eye on the next generation of English talent, and potentially call up some who may help his side qualify for Slovakia 2025, where they’ll look to defend their European Championship crown having won the tournament in 2023.

On an evening when John O’Shea was leading Ireland out in front of a crowd of almost 30,000 in Portugal, here, amongst a handful of spectators at the third-tier ground in the Croatian countryside, the man identified as FAI’s top target to replace Stephen Kenny was taking in an Ireland match - just not the one many supporters on these shores had hoped. The former Ireland midfielder will soon be off to Germany on a scouting mission of England’s potential knockout opponents, but before he left Vrbovec, there was time for some warm chats with several of the FAI’s staff. He caught up with his ex-U-21 teammate Crawford, as well as current U-21 assistant coach Paul McShane, who Carsley won eight senior caps with. He was also presented with an Irish jersey by a member of staff before hitting the road.

Carsley ruled himself out of the Ireland job last March, saying that an initial conversation held in November went no further before the FAI missed two deadlines of February and April to have Kenny’s successor in place by. Two hundred and five days have passed since Kenny’s departure, but the hotseat still remains vacant. The next time an Irish men’s side take on England will be the seniors at Lansdowne Road in September, as the Nations League campaign gets underway.

Last Tuesday served as a reminder of what could have been. Had the FAI got their man, maybe the feeling would be optimism, rather than dread as autumn approaches.

To make things even more embarrassing, Gus Poyet has only recently left his role with Greece and Greece have already found his replacement.

Broken record at this stage but ill repeat...what an absolute embarrassment of a manager search from the FAI...Greece just put that further into perspective.

Who did Greece appoint?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Who did Greece appoint?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_J...tball_manager)

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Extract from Dan McDonnell's free weekly newsletter, written by Sean O'Connor this week. It's a very good newsletter actually, I look forward to getting it. You can add yourself the the mailing list on the Indo website I think.

While my colleagues Dan McDonnell and Aidan Fitzmaurice were in Aveiro to cover Ireland’s clash with Euro 2024-bound Portugal, I was making my way to Vrbovec, a small town around one hour east of Zagreb, for the second match of the U-21s June double-header in Croatia. As Dan and Aidan were reporting on what turned out to be another disappointing away trip for the Boys in Green, my jaunt to central Europe suggested the future could be brighter than some might think. Jim Crawford’s men, who are targeting a first-ever European Championship qualification later this year, were full value for their 3-2 win over five-time finalists Croatia seven days ago before they came from behind to draw 2-2 against England’s U-20s on Tuesday - a team that, just last March, included Crystal Palace’s Adam Wharton, named in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2024 squad last week. Talk about strength and depth.

Three days ago, as I walked into the Vrbovec town stadium, I noticed a figure sitting near the press box, just at the back of the stand. It was Lee Carsley. The England U-21 boss was on a flying visit to the Balkan nation to cast an eye on the next generation of English talent, and potentially call up some who may help his side qualify for Slovakia 2025, where they’ll look to defend their European Championship crown having won the tournament in 2023.

On an evening when John O’Shea was leading Ireland out in front of a crowd of almost 30,000 in Portugal, here, amongst a handful of spectators at the third-tier ground in the Croatian countryside, the man identified as FAI’s top target to replace Stephen Kenny was taking in an Ireland match - just not the one many supporters on these shores had hoped. The former Ireland midfielder will soon be off to Germany on a scouting mission of England’s potential knockout opponents, but before he left Vrbovec, there was time for some warm chats with several of the FAI’s staff. He caught up with his ex-U-21 teammate Crawford, as well as current U-21 assistant coach Paul McShane, who Carsley won eight senior caps with. He was also presented with an Irish jersey by a member of staff before hitting the road.

Carsley ruled himself out of the Ireland job last March, saying that an initial conversation held in November went no further before the FAI missed two deadlines of February and April to have Kenny’s successor in place by. Two hundred and five days have passed since Kenny’s departure, but the hotseat still remains vacant. The next time an Irish men’s side take on England will be the seniors at Lansdowne Road in September, as the Nations League campaign gets underway.

Last Tuesday served as a reminder of what could have been. Had the FAI got their man, maybe the feeling would be optimism, rather than dread as autumn approaches.

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Denouement: Barry or Hughton will do nicely. Cheer up.

Ngl I used to be very pro Carsley but the more time I've spent thinking about it the more I start doubting him as an appointment. He's done well in his roles so far but if we are being honest he'd be in a similar category as Kenny & O'Shea in terms of 1st team managerial experience.