UEFA Euro 2024 Qualifying Group B

Wales beating Croatia is just kicking us while we're down

It's a result we need - puts Wales in second - but it looks like too little too late. Poland drawing against Moldova as it stands means Albania have qualified. So that and Slovakia/Luxembourg instead of Bosnia will be enough to do for us

Edit - actually, ignore that. We want Croatia and Wales to qualify. But this result would leave Turkey - who are easily beating Latvia - six points clear with two games to go (one game for Turkey). Turkey visit Wales next month so not all gone, but mostly gone. Croatia and Wales have to win all their games, and even then I think Croatia would come third on head-to-head

https://twitter.com/EURO2024/status/...WX_--syPg&s=19

Does this mean we're officially out?

No. We can have two teams ranked below us in the Nations League qualify for the Euros. Turkey are one. I can't see why Albania haven't officially qualified yet, but it's a formality anyway - that's two. Then Bosnia may well be out of it after tonight, when they host Portugal. It doesn't matter if Slovakia or Luxembourg qualify instead - both were below us. That's the third strike and out

It's about 99.99% certain at this stage though

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Wales beating Croatia is just kicking us while we're down

It's a result we need - puts Wales in second - but it looks like too little too late. Poland drawing against Moldova as it stands means Albania have qualified. So that and Slovakia/Luxembourg instead of Bosnia will be enough to do for us

Edit - actually, ignore that. We want Croatia and Wales to qualify. But this result would leave Turkey - who are easily beating Latvia - six points clear with two games to go (one game for Turkey). Turkey visit Wales next month so not all gone, but mostly gone. Croatia and Wales have to win all their games, and even then I think Croatia would come third on head-to-head

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Even with Belarus getting a draw against Switzerland you cant help but laugh, its almost like Switzerland are preparing to throw themselves under a bus just in case the Slovakia/Bosnia group goes our way to ensure Romania AND Israel qualify and as a result we still go out. Im not saying we deserve any luck at all but from the group we got drawn into and the results that have transpired around Europe it feels like literally everything that could possibly go against us has gone against us this campaign. It's like when we just need results to go as planned an upset occurs but then when we need an upset to go our way a results go as planned.

In Albania's case there is still a chance Moldova can qualify, shows just how awful a group that really is, which is keeping Albania from qualifying for the moment but its a formality as they only have to draw with the Faroe at home to secure qualification. Its irrelevant anyway as there is almost no chance Poland can get ahead of Albania unless there is some crazy 3 way tie.

We need Bosnia to get something from Portugal (ideally) and Slovakia/Luxembourg finishes in a draw (remember Luxembourg still have to play Lichtenstein so as far as I'm concerned they are ahead of Slovakia). In reality because of what I said about Bosnia will probably lose tonight and one of Slovakia/Luxembourg will win and its curtains and if by some miracle this group goes our way you can be sure Switzerland will lose/draw enough games to Romania/Israel which will put us out instead incase Romania dont get 2nd.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

In Albania's case there is still a chance Moldova can qualify, shows just how awful a group that really is, which is keeping Albania from qualifying for the moment but its a formality as they only have to draw with the Faroe at home to secure qualification. Its irrelevant anyway as there is almost no chance Poland can get ahead of Albania unless there is some crazy 3 way tie.

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Ah - good spot. So yeah, the Czechs and Moldova could contrive to knock Albania out, but as you note, that's still no good to us. It's not possible for the Czechs and Poland to both qualify, so while Albania aren't qualified yet, this does still count as a second team below us in the Nations League to have qualified for the Euros directly.

One more will do it - so we need Bosnia to turn things around starting tonight (highly unlikely, especially with Slovakia playing Luxembourg as well so they can't both lose), Israel to pass Romania (Romania are stumbling, but Israel have four games in a month now)...and Holland to pass out Greece. So that's the anomaly that suddenly a defeat next month could be a good result.

Wins for Portugal and Slovakia this evening will formally end things.

The last time we lost five qualifiers was for Euro 1972. We lost five of the six games in the group, with only a draw against Sweden in the opening game of the qualifiers preventing a whitewash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_E...ifying_Group_6

As it stands now the Israel team are bound by a state imposed travel ban. That leaves some big questions about their ability to fulfill the remaining 4 fixtures inside the alloted time (all 4 away fixtures?). There are already so many spanners in the works against qual for the play offs, is there room for another one?
Even if that 0.1% chance of qualifying transpired, Ireland would likely draw the short straw and be thrown into the League A path with an away fixture v Italy.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The last time we lost five qualifiers was for Euro 1972. We lost five of the six games in the group, with only a draw against Sweden in the opening game of the qualifiers preventing a whitewash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_E...ifying_Group_6

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Shocking Goal Difference of -14 (F3 A17)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Shocking Goal Difference of -14 (F3 A17)

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Mainly due to 6 goals conceded v Austria away with Ireland fielding a LOI team and 4 goals v Austria at home due to Dunphy being selected at CH, subbed at ht.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Mainly due to 6 goals conceded v Austria away with Ireland fielding a LOI team and 4 goals v Austria at home due to Dunphy being selected at CH, subbed at ht.

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Fair dues.

Though scoring 3 times in 6 games is a bit poor, too, esp since two were peno's.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Fair dues.

Though scoring 3 times in 6 games is a bit poor, too, esp since two were peno's.

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It was 50 years ago!! I think even Owls Fan would struggle to remember.

but at least empowered with important facts from that bygone era, we have moved on from the ignominy of a "shocking goal difference" to just being "a bit poor".

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

https://twitter.com/EURO2024/status/...WX_--syPg&s=19

Does this mean we're officially out?

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Not sure which result changed things this evening, but we're now officially looking for alternative summer holiday plans next summer. Even if we do manage to lose on Saturday

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Even if we do manage to lose on Saturday

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It'll be difficult but Im sure we'll manage that :)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Not sure which result changed things this evening, but we're now officially looking for alternative summer holiday plans next summer. Even if we do manage to lose on Saturday

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Slovakia beating Iceland was the nail in the coffin

F**k me those Israel & Slovakia groups really are Sh!t groups, Jesus Christ!

have a ticket (anf flights) booked for tomorrow's game but considering not going. i just feel the players are waiting for SK to be out the door.

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Originally Posted by zero

have a ticket (anf flights) booked for tomorrow's game but considering not going. i just feel the players are waiting for SK to be out the door.

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McClean being called up alone should be reason not to go. Not good enough to make even the u21 squad yet here is getting into the senior squad. One of the reasons why I cant wait for this regime to end.

He was always getting called up for this window in fairness, with the NZ game being his send-off.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

He was always getting called up for this window in fairness, with the NZ game being his send-off.

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He shouldn't get a send off, that should have been put to bed when he decided to play in League 2.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

He shouldn't get a send off, that should have been put to bed when he decided to play in League 2.

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Sure, what else are we doing at the moment ? We might as well have a send off.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Sure, what else are we doing at the moment ? We might as well have a send off.

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Idk, maybe looking at players who have potential to improve the Irish side in future like Moran etc. McClean has shown like Hourihane and J.Collins that he's done at this level and has no ambition in his club career (bare in mind even these 2 mentioned are more worthy of a call up than McClean). He's a L2 player so should be treated like one and put to pastures months ago.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

He shouldn't get a send off, that should have been put to bed when he decided to play in League 2.

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In a friendly against New Zealand? Why not?

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Idk, maybe looking at players who have potential to improve the Irish side in future like Moran etc. McClean has shown like Hourihane and J.Collins that he's done at this level and has no ambition in his club career (bare in mind even these 2 mentioned are more worthy of a call up than McClean). He's a L2 player so should be treated like one and put to pastures months ago.

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I think at this stage it's more important that we have a blow-out on the beer ~ A sort of a reset ~ This was basically what worked for Jack Charlton (wink) !

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In a friendly against New Zealand? Why not?

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James always showed up and did his best. If all the other Irish players did the same over the last 15 years or so, we would probably be in better shape.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In a friendly against New Zealand? Why not?

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"Why not?" Because its a waste of a cap, the game would be far more beneficial to players like Roughan/McNulty/Armstrong etc who are far more deserving on form than McClean who's just washed up already.

Kenny continuing to reward mediocrity is one of the reasons we are where we are.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

James always showed up and did his best. If all the other Irish players did the same over the last 15 years or so, we would probably be in better shape.

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Showing up and giving you're best is a given at this level, if that's the best praise you can give him then that is another good reason why he shouldn't be in the squad. His form over the last year for club and country has not been good enough to warrant a "send off". Even French TV mocked us for picking him, that says it all really.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

"Why not?" Because its a waste of a cap, the game would be far more beneficial to players like Roughan/McNulty/Armstrong etc who are far more deserving on form than McClean who's just washed up already.

Kenny continuing to reward mediocrity is one of the reasons we are where we are.

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How many subs can you have for a meaningless friendly ? !

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Showing up and giving you're best is a given at this level, if that's the best praise you can give him then that is another good reason why he shouldn't be in the squad. His form over the last year for club and country has not been good enough to warrant a "send off". Even French TV mocked us for picking him, that says it all really.

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Well, if the French mock us ~ You have a point !

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

How many subs can you have for a meaningless friendly ? !

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I dont know, any wasted on bringing on or off McClean is one too many.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

How many subs can you have for a meaningless friendly ? !

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I think it's still 6 or so. Eriksson took the **** while manager of England and FIFA took objection to that, so they changed the rules.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for McClean. And I've been calling for better succession planning at wingback longer than most. He's not taking Armstrong's place in the squad (and it's too soon for him anyway, based on club/under 21 form). MacNulty is a centre-back afaik; we've plenty of those so he has to get in ahead of them first. Roughan is doing ok for himself but he's playing for a mid-table third tier side; he's better with the 21s for now.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think it's still 6 or so. Eriksson took the **** while manager of England and FIFA took objection to that, so they changed the rules.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for McClean. And I've been calling for better succession planning at wingback longer than most. He's not taking Armstrong's place in the squad (and it's too soon for him anyway, based on club/under 21 form). MacNulty is a centre-back afaik; we've plenty of those so he has to get in ahead of them first. Roughan is doing ok for himself but he's playing for a mid-table third tier side; he's better with the 21s for now.

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Might as well have a Hooley for James McClean ~ Sure there is nothing else happening at senior level for ages now.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I think it's still 6 or so. Eriksson took the **** while manager of England and FIFA took objection to that, so they changed the rules.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for McClean. And I've been calling for better succession planning at wingback longer than most. He's not taking Armstrong's place in the squad (and it's too soon for him anyway, based on club/under 21 form). MacNulty is a centre-back afaik; we've plenty of those so he has to get in ahead of them first. Roughan is doing ok for himself but he's playing for a mid-table third tier side; he's better with the 21s for now.

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I love how you are saying Armstrong isnt ready when he's a regular in the championship and Roughan is better staying with the u21s because he's only playing for a mid table third tier side but then dont condemn the call up of McClean when he's 35 and playing for a FOURTH tier side...

There is literally 0 justification for calling up McClean.

And btw McNulty has been playing in the Eredivisie as a LB.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Might as well have a Hooley for James McClean ~ Sure there is nothing else happening at senior level for ages now.

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You mean waste an opportunity to blood young players in order to just give a 35 year old washed up player who should have been ousted years ago another cap? This right here is why were are where we are.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I love how you are saying Armstrong isnt ready when he's a regular in the championship and Roughan is better staying with the u21s because he's only playing for a mid table third tier side but then dont condemn the call up of McClean when he's 35 and playing for a FOURTH tier side...

There is literally 0 justification for calling up McClean.

And btw McNulty has been playing in the Eredivisie as a LB.

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Sinclair has played a full game once this season, hasn't started a game in a month, and he's played 45 minutes of football since then.
He's fine with the U21s

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Originally Posted by CSAD

You mean waste an opportunity to blood young players in order to just give a 35 year old washed up player who should have been ousted years ago another cap? This right here is why were are where we are.

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Or, it's an opportunity to give the U21s their best chance of continuing their 100% start to their group, with two of their most difficult fixtures in the group. It's one of the rare occasions when it's better to leave players with the U21s. If anything, the Gibraltar game was the time to give players their senior debut.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I love how you are saying Armstrong isnt ready when he's a regular in the championship and Roughan is better staying with the u21s because he's only playing for a mid table third tier side but then dont condemn the call up of McClean when he's 35 and playing for a FOURTH tier side...

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I'm not condemning the call-up of McClean for one last send-off. Big difference.

Armstrong has something like one goal in 35 games for QPR, and was very wasteful in the U21 game against San Marino. Let him develop more of a goal threat and he's an option then. Regardless, I don't know why you think McClean is keeping a forward out of the squad.

Roughan hasn't gone beyond mid-table third tier in terms of ability yet; it's too soon to be bringing him to the senior squad. If MacNulty is playing on the left, then fair enough, he's an option - but I still wouldn't begrudge McClean one last cap in a meaningless friendly.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Sinclair has played a full game once this season, hasn't started a game in a month, and he's played 45 minutes of football since then.
He's fine with the U21s


Or, it's an opportunity to give the U21s their best chance of continuing their 100% start to their group, with two of their most difficult fixtures in the group. It's one of the rare occasions when it's better to leave players with the U21s. If anything, the Gibraltar game was the time to give players their senior debut.

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Even with all that being the case Armstrong is still a better option than a 35 year old washed up L2 player. Also bare in mind even players like O'Riordan and Curtis from the u21s would also be more worth while call ups as they each have potential upside unlike McClean.

We screwed giving our u21s their best chance of qualifying when we pulled out the captain so I doubt they care too much.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm not condemning the call-up of McClean for one last send-off. Big difference.

Armstrong has something like one goal in 35 games for QPR, and was very wasteful in the U21 game against San Marino. Let him develop more of a goal threat and he's an option then. Regardless, I don't know why you think McClean is keeping a forward out of the squad.

Roughan hasn't gone beyond mid-table third tier in terms of ability yet; it's too soon to be bringing him to the senior squad. If MacNulty is playing on the left, then fair enough, he's an option - but I still wouldn't begrudge McClean one last cap in a meaningless friendly.

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His one last stand off should have come over a year ago, now he's outstayed his welcome and that should have been confirmed when he decided to sign for Wrexham. What you dont seem to get is all the options I mentioned despite some of their flaws are still preferable to McClean.

If McClean wanted his stand off cap he needs to have something to offer us and I'm sorry to tell him but offering effort doesn't quite cut it when the rest of what he offers us is severely lacking, he should have thought about that before he signed for Wrexham. Like I said in a previous comment along with the options mentioned Connor O'Riordan and Sam Curtis would be better call ups than McClean as at least they have potential upside and have at least *some* football IQ...

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Even with all that being the case Armstrong is still a better option than a 35 year old washed up L2 player. Also bare in mind even players like O'Riordan and Curtis from the u21s would also be more worth while call ups as they each have potential upside unlike McClean.

We screwed giving our u21s their best chance of qualifying when we pulled out the captain so I doubt they care too much.

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McClean isn't taking a place from Armstrong - one of Robinson, Parrott, Idah, Ogbene, Ferguson, and possibly Johnson is.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

McClean isn't taking a place from Armstrong - one of Robinson, Parrott, Idah, Ogbene, Ferguson, and possibly Johnson is.

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Conveniently leaving out the fact I also mentioned Roughan & Garcia McNulty, both of which play in his position for their club and are playing at a higher level and at least have potential upside. And like I said recently Curtis and Riordan are arguably better options for a call up when you consider their upside. If these were important games maybe I could understand McClean's call up because of his experience but in meaningless games like the ones we are playing he's pointless.

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While he is not good enough anymore to warrant a squad place, picking him for a meaningless game is a small price to pay to show recognition for his loyalty and service to the Ireland team. After all, he has over 100 caps for his country, and it does send a message to the other players that their efforts are appreciated. It is far too easy to disregard this element of the game, they are people too and I won't be too quick to dehumanise the process.

At the end of the day not getting minutes in one meaningless friendly, that will also be the last game for the manager, will not negatively impact the development of any of these younger players who in other circumstances would maybe be in the squad. Would it be good to have them in the squad ahead of him? Yes, does it actually make that big a difference? No, not really.