For a minute there, BTTW, I thought you were going to suggest a border deal on Brexit - a stopper at the back in exchange for the backstop!
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For a minute there, BTTW, I thought you were going to suggest a border deal on Brexit - a stopper at the back in exchange for the backstop!
A lot of specific details (whether true or not) in that story when compared to previous ones. Which worries me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckydee
Best of luck to the lad . A lot more money to be made and much greater chances of success . The English FA are also very unlikely to hire Martin O’ Neill or Roy Keane .
England are trying to play football under Southgate which is probably an attraction to a player with footballing ability .
Lets be honest here , if any of us were him ( with where he was brought up , etc ) wouldn’t we be vert tempted / definitely accepting this option .
No to be honest, if i lined out three times for a country and played through their youth system i wouldnt be able to let all those people who helped me downQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Fair dues to ya but everyone is different . To some football is a business ( it is ) . He can make considerably more money as an England international and much more chance of big success .Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
It would be nice it we had kept a committed Rice and Grealish because if we had we would immediately have so much more ‘ Potential ‘ . It might be even easier to keep /attract some other good talent .
C’est la Vie . In the past we have greatly benefited from getting players in somewhat similar situation ....So we can’t really complain !
Leaving both money and patriotism aside, and considering football as the beautiful game...
...would you rather play for Southgate or MONKeano?
Saw a bit of the West Ham game at the weekend, Rice alongside Noble in midfield, and it reminded me of when Noble was being touted as a possible call up for the Ireland team. Of course, that never happened, but he never played for England's senior team either. It looks like Rice will go on to earn some caps for them, but I can't see it being anywhere near the same number as what he would have earned with Ireland.
Grealish is unlikely to play for England while he's still in the Championhip, so he's not going to make his senior debut until next summer, at the earliest, whereas if he'd stayed with Ireland he'd be well into double figures by now and would have appeared at the European Championships.
Well we got Mike Haley and Will Addision from them in the rugby so.............???? :tongue:
I think we should ababdon the appeasement strategy and put in place a zero tolerence policy.
If a player refuses a call up to think, then we should close the door. He did it with Liam Kelly and that was the right way to do it going forward
I would be fairly certain that if the Irish setup wasn't such a clusterphuck under MON/Keane that none of these lads would be jumping ship. The management duo are doing nothing for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Personally I think this particular switch, assuming it happens, has nothing to do with O'Neill or Keane. He was loving the Irish experience until England approached.
Yep, There is only one person to "Blame" and thats Mr. Declan Rice.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
We can't afford to exclude potential players like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I actually think we cant afford not to do it. If a player knows that their international career could be over in a split second they would have to think long and hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
If Conor Coventry or anyone else does this. Do we appease again for 4 months? ….No, we make a firm all be it hard decision and say our goodbyes
It will put all our duel nationality players on notice. refuse a call up and your gone
I don't think that would make players more likely to declare for us than the current 'wait for them to make a decision' model, so I wouldn't be in favour of it.
I think we have to accept that among our dual nationality players, there will be some who are likely to choose England if England come calling. We just have to hope England never come calling before they are cap-tied.
I prefer potatoes anyway . A nice bit of butter . No need for a fancy sauce .
one lad.... allegedlyQuote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
I’m sure that’s not dictated his thinking, as management changes are never that far from the horizon, especially for a young player. He would likely have gone through three or four managers playing for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
He obviously watched World Cup. Liked what he saw. Feels English.
Was asked to play for them and has decided to do that.
Good luck to him.
It’s disapppinting but he hasn’t don’t much wrong, regarding the rules.
It shows us that the rules need to change.
the wheels could just as easily come off the england bandwagon. southgate is an average manager at best. being honest, how impressive were they really during their wc run? they lost three times after all and struggled badly against Tunisia in their first group game.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
even against spain a few weeks back they had an incredible 20 mins in the first half but were pummelled after that with only 30% possession for the full match.
there is nothing "beautiful" about southgates england
Agreed. It's the real problem here. We're going to benefit, and suffer, from players changing their allegiances under these rules, as will every country. Their current state leaves the system far too open to abuse. I'd drop the "competitive senior international" clause, leave it at "any senior international", but keep the "playing an underage competitive international for a second country ties you to that second country" clause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Jack Grealish alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
They just beat Spain... in Spain.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
In a glorified friendly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Grealish is a villa fan and would have experienced 3 6th place finishes for Villa in MONs time as Villa manager. We qualified for the euros a couple of months after Grealish opted out.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Its not remotely plausible that Grealish opting out was down to the Irish management at the time
the point was that is you scratch beneath the surface I don't believe there's a whole lot of substance to Southgates Englands recent formQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Maybe, maybe not. I'm just saying they impressed against Spain in what was a competitive albeit not crucial match. Spain looked complacent and if they had a rematch wouldn't get done again I'm sure. But on the night, for the first 45+ minutes anyway, England denied Spain any time or space and kept Spain well away from the penalty box. They showed signs of a clever game plan that was really well plotted and executed. Their pace upfront was scary. They were also two poor Rashford finishes away from a draw at Wembley and a win in Croatia. They were a wonder save (from Harry Kane) away from a 2-0 lead in a World Cup semi final, which I'm sure would have been enough.
They have good players coming through who don't even get into the starting XI like the Leicester left back and Ruben Loftus-Cheek. They have excelled at most underage levels in the last couple of seasons. In reality I'd say they are still at the level I thought they were at in June: too good for most second tier teams, not good enough for the best tier 1 teams. That's about where they have been for a while but Southgate certainly has put a personal stamp on this England team. The relevance for the Rice "debate" is simply that there's a lot of positivity and optimism around England right now, plenty of it justified, and that's about the polar opposite around the Irish mood.
one interesting stat that I heard on Off The Ball the other night - Southgate has called up 64 players in his time as manager so far.
If the potential for qualifying and doing well at tournaments in the major deal breaker then England is, and always will be, the better choice. This goes without saying. Even if we were winning matches all around us at the moment, Rice would still have the foresight to realise England is the safer long-term option.
He shouldn't pin too much faith in Southgate though. He's flavour of the month right now but things can unravel fast in that job. Roy Hodgson qualified for the Euros with a 100% record.
I don't believe that Rice views the Irish setup in a negative way, he was absolutely buzzing to be involved. It's just another lazy and desperate stick to beat O'Neill with, as if there wasn't enough justified ammunition elsewhere.
If we reference the Declan Rice situation as a case study ( all be it with hindsight to be fair) He is told straight way if he doesn't turn up for the game in Cardiff its goodbye ( remember he wasn't on fire in the league like he is now) there is 2 results possible here. 1) He says "f**k lets not balls this up and plays against Wales.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
2) He says no I'm not coming and we the fans, the management set-up and the FAI know straight way he is gone and without this humiliating circus we are in now.
Is it a humiliating circus? It's clear the last is confused or he would just have made his decision public by now. I don't see what he has to gain from prolonging the "humiliating circus". I think MON has acted quite dignified throughout this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I have no criticism of Mons handling of Rice. I just think going forward we need a different approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Re Rice he has prolonging the "humiliating circus" and its to secure his defection to England via two face to face meetings with the FA
Some you win, some you lose. Not a Declan Rice story, but certainly there are similarities.
http://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/footb...ocid=ientp_edu
Ahhhh. That's Caoimhin Fowler's sister. Looks like Caoimhin was semi-pro with Wollongong Wolves in Australia's second tier before moving back to a side in the Dutch second tier. His career hasn't quite taken off.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
He's been on the bench twice this season. For a 19 year old in the Dutch second division, you'd hope he'd at least have made his debut by now.
Oh please... MON calls up 64 players for every gameQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
It's Southgate way of letting players know that they are all in his thoughts and any player from any club can get a cap. This makes all English players feel they can get a cap and thus makes it harder for us to grab one or two that we may have obtained before.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Nathan Redmond perhaps another good example.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Off The Ball AM had an interesting debate the other morning about who was the last Ireland player that England would have picked i.e. since the days of Lawro, Aldo and Townsend. I found they were very biased towards their own analysts in Kevin Kilbane's and Gary Breen in saying they may have earned England caps. They used Trevor Sinclair at the 2002 World Cup as an example of someone Kilbane would have got in ahead of. Sinclair had a little more guile than Killer. I think they got a bit carried away on Breen too. Richard Shaw didn't get any England caps while playing beside Breen for Coventry.
It's a funny one when you look at the Wales squad and see Woodburn, Brooks and Ampadu who could very conceivably have earned caps for England.
That’s the FA though, they love helping little England as much as they can whereas they don’t seem to give a flying F if they screw us and Scotland over. Either Declan Rice is a far better prospect than the likes of Ampadu, Brooks, Woodburn etc or the English FA are prioritizing taking our lads.
You could say the same about us and the IFA in fairness