But it's a sign of improvement? I liked it.
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But it's a sign of improvement? I liked it.
It's a sign of improvement about ten years ago, when most of those players were LoI.
Since then, we've regressed - Towell may end up being the next Hoolahan, but who else?
And the big problem is the FAI still don't seem to have grasped that if they supported the LoI better, it'd generate more players like this.
I guess I'm just grumpy in general when it comes to the FAI. :) It just feels like they think 8 ex-LoI players in the squad is great, when in fact it's ****-poor.
is it **** poor that 4 nailed on starters Whelan, Brady, Hendrick, Randolph (also Given but ages ago!) all came through the system one way or another but didn't play LOI? I see your point but I think it's good that we have 8 ex-LOI guys in or very close to the team (plus Forde) in addition to home-grown talent from the schoolboy clubs.
The LoI compared very badly to the league of pretty much every other country in the Euros.
Even the other recent LoI internationals - Forde, as you say, Doyle, Sammon, Fahey - all ten years gone out of the league. All played when there was relatively big money in the league - it wasn't sustainable, granted - but I don't think it's coincidental.
We used to rely on the English league to produce our players, but we can't do that any more. I don't think it's a coincidence that the national team's fortunes have declined as Irish players get squeezed out of the Premiership, and I think we'll decline even further with the LoI not really producing players any more (because the budget has gone way down)
I wouldn't mind the photo if the FAI were doing something about the matter - but they're not.
Forrester?
Maybe, yep.
But neither he nor Towell has a cap yet - for every player in that photo, there was another good LoI player who went over at the same time and never got a cap. John O'Flynn, Michael Reddy, Gary Dicker, Seán Dillon, Richie Foran, Alan Bennett (well, he was capped, but in the Lapira tour, so that hardly counts), Roy O'Donovan, Brian Murphy. Forrester and Towell could yet go either way.
But there's clearly nowhere near that talent at home now. That's not a good thing.
Another ex-LOI goalscorer today. He hasn't played there for a while though so it's not a good ad for the league :)
I think you're missing the point Stutts - rare for you!
The 8 players in the squad indicates progress in the league ten years ago.
Ten years from now, if there's 8 ex-LoI players in the squad, we'll have a very poor team.
Unless the league makes progress.
A domestic league should be regularly turning out international-standard players - most of the countries in the Euros got 20+ of their squad from their domestic league - but ours isn't any more.
So the FAI are bigging up what once was a functioning league (from that point of view), while ignoring the fact that they've done nothing to keep it being a functional league.
PStu, you're absolutely right about the FAI. But I don't think a few cute photos that at least recognise the league's existence is the grounds for this argument, even if I get your frustration.
The FAI has been chronically poor custodians of the local game, but if they didn't take the opportunity to nod towards the local league at an auspicous occasion like this they'd be flagellated.
It doesn't cause me too much whiplash to say I both liked the photos and the FAI are a bunch of incompetent, do-nothing backslappers. :)
I don't really agree I'm afraid!Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I like the photos. They look cool, and if Sammo was in the squad, they'd be even better. :)
But it's dangerous to normalise the idea that 8 of 23 players starting their careers in the domestic league is in any way good. It's awful. I think Iceland had 21 of their players start in the Icelandic league, for example. 8 of the 9 Albanian-born Albanians started at home.
I think a photo showing this off as great is the exact time to highlight how it's actually awful. While still appreciating the photos.
You're not wrong, Stu. I suppose I'm just coming at it from the view that it's almost always been awful. At least in the modern period. Has Iceland's league ever not produced it's own international footballers?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We have a relatively unique problem with our national league and player development, most countries will always fare better than us in comparison.
And it's an endemic, centuries old problem with no quick fix. It'd be nice if there was any kind of will to fix the problem from our esteemed football administrators, of course, but I guess that's why my dander isn't up all that much about this. I'm so beaten down by the FAI, that any visibility that isn't club administration or points deductions feels like good visibility...
I'm with the Swan. Of course the FAI can do so much better with the league but in my 40 years watching the ROI I think this is the best LOI representation. It sends a message that the LOI is a good stepping stone to bigger things. Roy Keane agrees :)
It's not fair to compare Ireland to big countries in terms of league representation. I'd also think that of the players in that photo, they may have emerged from the same era, but not necessarily at the same time and I think it took all but McClean (maybe Ward?) a few more years in England to make the cut. The point here is that a picture in time doesn't tell the story, it's got to be viewed over a cycle. It could be that the well is running dry again but I think Matt Doherty (Bohs) is very close to a call up and Alan Browne (Cork City) might be a year or two away. Then if Forrester (likely), Delaney (I'm thinking of the full back who joined Hull from Cork) and Towell can step up and maybe another of the current generation still at home like Horgan then that'll be another good cohort of LOI nurtured players. Hasn't McCarthy taken a few guys over to Ipswich?
And if the explanation for fewer LOI players making the cut is that the likes of Jack Byrne, Brady & Hendrick and players like Greg Cunningham - all home grown but bypassed the LOI - are taken up by good English clubs then I'm OK with that. I'd prefer if they could cut their teeth more at home but it'd be a big call to turn down Man City (Byrne, Cunningham) or Man United (Brady) in favour of a LOI club even if the LOI improves massively.
If nothing else it's a feelgood story and while Stu is right to cast some realism over it, my glass is more than half full on this one.
Don't know - but it certainly hasn't produced 21 finals squad players before.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
What's unique about us? The FAI?Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
We can enjoy this Euros as the last for a while if we just accept the poor performance of the league. There's never been fewer Irish players in the Premiership than now. Ex-LoI players make up a sizeable chunk of that for the first time ever - that's how it's supposed to be. But the English top flight teams arhave so much more choice now than to pick up a few Irish players. If we want good players, we have to develop them ourselves.
Instead, the FAI tell Limerick they can't host a big fundraising friendly against Barcelona, and then make up reasons why. Cos that'll help Limerick raise funds to improve their club structure and hopefully produce future internationals.
What big countries am I comparing to? Iceland? Albania? Slovakia? Croatia? Wales?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
But there's currently fewer of those players in the Premiership than ever before. That's not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
But how many Iceland, Albania and Slovakia players are in the Premiership (or elite leagues)? Some, but not many I'd guess. The key for me is producing a good international team.
Croatia is an extraordinary story, a breeding ground of athletic, technical and clever players, though I'm surprised Corluka is still there. Wales is virtually a full part of the English professional pyramid so not as comparable. Football is a huge sport in these countries - and don't start by responding "rugby is bigger in Wales" - outside certain pockets football is every bit as pervasive.
I'm not defending the FAI but the fact that 8 LOI players are in a European Finals squad isn't a stick to beat them with, even if you're right to rub some of the gloss off it.
Football is a huge sport in this country too. Let's not dismiss that just because the GAA is here.
The countries you mention typically have 7/8 players in the "top" leagues - Serie A, Ligue 1, the Bundesliga, La Liga and the Premiership. But it's hard to judge other countries because they have players various other European leagues - so Slovakia have two players in the Russian league (with Dynamo and Lokomotiv Moscow - with Ireland, it's Premiership or nothing of course). Is that better or worse than James McClean at West Brom or Aiden McGeady at Sheffield Wednesday? Hard to tell, but recent European campaigns haven't shown the lower Premiership teams in a great light.
I think if we accept that 8 LoI players in a squad is great, then we've a small mindset and can settle back into a generation of being fourth seeds.
I think the GAA thing is important. Iceland's success - as far as I am aware - is to a large part attributable to publicly funded high quality facilities all around the country, every town and village. I don't see that happening in Ireland and the GAA is part of that. If we had no GAA my guess is that we'd have a far better chance of sustaining professional football.
You've made your point, I've made mine. They're not even contradictory. I'm not accepting anything and I don't have a small mindset.
I don't think the GAA thing is as important as we like to think. It's not ideal (from a football point of view - hurling's a great game of course), but other countries our size have similar competition. Professional ice-hockey leagues, professional basketball leagues, huge interest in skiing and Olympic handball.
It's too easy to blame the GAA.
We can't even keep our own villages, towns, cities and rural environs tidy but we can clean up foreign cities. :rolleyes:
The self-awareness among the self-professed "best fans" in the world (who can't even sing the words of their own anthem mind) continues to be taken to new levels.
http://www.the42.ie/irish-fan-cleans...29516-Jun2016/
Got to get those Facebook likes and retweets!
I find the whole thing a bit too self-congratulatory alright.
Yeah, we should be rioting or throwing coins at Syrian refugees or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Nobody would hear about it if the Irish media weren't all over it. Balls.ie have been churning out little else. But even if there is an element of self-congratulation, I'd rather hear about Irish fans fixing a tyre or cleaning up the mess of bags, cans and bottles they'd left on the street than hear that we were doing damage or causing harm to people. The fans are representing the country abroad and I'm sure the locals are appreciative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It's just clickbait. Nice to hear, but wouldn't read too deeply into it.
Not sure what's worse, the sites churning this stuff out, or the fans recording every minute of the trip in case something gas happens
Both just modern life unfortunately.
If it makes you feel any better my brother was the guy who got 'knocked out' live on RTE the other night. Something different to all this Mother Teresa stuff :)
What was that Apres Match skit with Roy Keane? "What are they doin, dancing in the streets!? Streets are for cars!"
Irish Fans Rescue Kidnapped Schoolgirls From Boko Haram
Superb satire.
ahem...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/46457263.jpg
Did they not let you clean up with them or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I'm quare tired of people having a go at us having fun. Let them. Why are we so bloody miserable?
Lighten up lads. Just be glad we're not causing trouble and enjoying ourselves. If the fact that lads are cleaning up and videoing it is your biggest complaint then we're doing ok.
Croatia win would be good for us surely?
Czech Republic motoring now thanks to a strike from Skoda
Goes to show how much Modric controls the game. Had Rosicky in his pocket.
Turkey getting Gdansk'ed here. Let's hear if their fans can do a decent Turkish version of Fields of Athenry. And if Hakan Suker will be completely raging about it.
Give 'em credit - Turks making all the noise the last few minutes anyway
The42 on the recent backlash against the videos and photos going viral from the euros: http://www.the42.ie/ireland-fans-eur...29680-Jun2016/
Just a question nobody asked yet - what was it that pushed people over the edge here? There's numerous examples of the same kind of behaviour at recent McGregor fights, at last year's rugby world cup, etc, so was there anything specific to this tournament that created the backlash?
I have no problem with whats going on at all. PStu summed it up very succinctly - its the world we live in now. For a lot of fans this is a holiday as well as a chance to take your nation playing in one of the great sporting tournaments. If people want to have a few drinks, sing a few songs and have a good laugh on the streets of these cities then we should have no problem with this. As long as they are not fighting, inciting locals or others into violence or being too much of a social disturbance then this behavior and capturing it on camera is no problem. Theyre just having a laugh.
I think perhaps where this stems from could be the annoyance carried over from Polkraine in 2012. A lot of folks, myself included, took issue with the singing of the Fields of Athenry and generally celebratory behavior from the fans in the stadiums while we were enduring the worst tournament of our history with some of the most abject and boring performances accompanying it. People saw it as being accepting or forgiving of 2nd rate performance. A lot of folks were disillusioned with Trappatoni at that stage and the squad/team selection and thought that fans who are spending their hard earned should make their dissatisfaction known instead of singing songs. I felt that way. In retrospect, it was a little bit harsh and uppity although I would still cringe (and vomit) if it happened tomorrow while Belgium were beating us 4-0.
That said, if people are drawing parallels with what happens on the streets of Bordeaux or Paris in 2016 with singing songs and party mode in the stadiums of Poland 4 years ago while getting tanked, that's extremely unfair and not at all similar for the reasons outlined in the couple of paragraphs above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Funny. Had something similar in Basel when Everton were in town (playing in Bern i think) where me and another Irish guy bumped into a skin head, or rather he bumped into us, he was mad to fight with some english supporters, but he relaxed once he heard we were Irish! Ha. I am sure this happens a lot really........
By the way we did end up drinking with him in the end as well, lol, even if he was a complete nutter!
I saw some ('aren't we great') video posted up the Indo where irish fans helped some inebriated elder guy up to his feet after knocking him to the ground. What was the alternative , kick him to bits then rob him?
Okay, some idiots though this was a fun video, that's the world we live in but does the national 'effin newspaper have to run with this drivel?
It's the emergence of popular fascism all around Europe is the issue for football and whose thugs who have embedded themselves into the regular support, the worst being Croatia, Russia and Hungary (black shirts). A tad more disturbing than the harmless antics of inebriated tourists,