Republic of Ireland V Gibraltar(A) 4th Sept & Georgia(H) 7th Sept 2015 - Euro 2016 Q

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

their u17s may be on kop tv which is a big draw for many in this country

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Is it really?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

No, but if you'd spent €80+ on a ticket, plus travel, food + drink for yourself, and possibly one or two more, only 24 hours earlier, then you'd be less likely to spend the same again on Monday night.

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In fairness, I think jbyrnes point was that shelling out on school books didn't stop people attending the GAA matches, but it was suggested as a reason for people missing the soccer. The combination of both, of course, wouldn't help. There are multiple different factors obviously, Monday night, Electric picnic, GAA games, not a particularly glamorous tie all strong suggestions I feel, but I would be shocked if the public's perception of the FAI was anywhere remotely near the top. The people the FAI bug the most are the very ones who were probably there, i.e. the ones who actually care.

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Originally Posted by KK77

Is it really?

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ask various lge of Ireland clubs how many turned up when they had pre season friendlies against various liverpool reserve teams over the last few years.
it summed it up for me when someone I know said he would rather liverpool win the lge than Ireland win the world cup after I returned from japan 02. I know many more like him

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

ask various lge of Ireland clubs how many turned up when they had pre season friendlies against various liverpool reserve teams over the last few years.
it summed it up for me when someone I know said he would rather liverpool win the lge than Ireland win the world cup after I returned from japan 02. I know many more like him

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Horses for courses I suppose.

3 moments stick in my head for "recent" Irish football.
1. Shels won in Europe, packed the place, then played home to Derry between or just after the ties (I think it was) and there were tumbleweeds rolling about.
2. Met people going to Tolka for a match, basically families and kids. Was delighted until I asked were Shels at home? They asked "Who?" They were going to see the "Dream Team" play an exhibition game.
3. FAI Cup Final 2010, battle of Rovers, great ticketing scheme, great crowd, great atmosphere, good game.

For the national team it's easy to remember when you'd to pay to reserve seats for bundles of matches, though there was a caveat, you missed one match, you lost your seat - didn't matter that I was doing exams the day of the Latvia game. Sickened me and for years I didn't bother going to home Irish games.

I don't really buy that the Irish are alone as event junkies, more that (as noted by an esteemed poster) we're 20,000 hard core fans, they carry the bandwaggon and are committed to Team Ireland - and a fair percentage to their local clubs (LOI, Junior or Kids). Same as in any country.

By comparison our own LOI does well to many countries in terms of % population attending games, both domestic league and international.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

but they are willing to set these views to one side when the bigger matches come to town? I don't buy that for one second.

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Crowds are fickle. The bigger matches will draw a crowd for the "spectacle", no matter what the FAI are or aren't doing. Games against smaller teams won't have the same pull for people and disillusionment with or disconnection from how the FAI and how they are running Irish football certainly cannot help. People will just feel unbothered about going out of their way to fork out a lot of money or show loyalty to an association to whom they not only feel absolutely no sense of duty, but also for whom they harbour actual aversion. People in the past might have felt a sort-of national obligation out of connection and it might have been enough of an impetus to bring them to the smaller fixtures, but that appears not to be the case now. There's no real sense of "we're all in this together" when it comes to the relationship between the FAI and many followers and supporters of Irish football. I'm not saying it's the only factor, but the FAI's crooked image certainly cannot help. If people didn't feel they were being ripped off and knew their money was going to a good place, perhaps it would be a motivator for some.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Crowds are fickle. The bigger matches will draw a crowd for the "spectacle", no matter what the FAI are or aren't doing. Games against smaller teams won't have the same pull for people and disillusionment with or disconnection from how the FAI and how they are running Irish football certainly cannot help. People will just feel unbothered about going out of their way to fork out a lot of money or show loyalty to an association to whom they not only feel absolutely no sense of duty, but also for whom they harbour actual aversion. People in the past might have felt a sort-of national obligation out of connection and it might have been enough of an impetus to bring them to the smaller fixtures, but that appears not to be the case now. There's no real sense of "we're all in this together" when it comes to the relationship between the FAI and many followers and supporters of Irish football. I'm not saying it's the only factor, but the FAI's crooked image certainly cannot help. If people didn't feel they were being ripped off and knew their money was going to a good place, perhaps it would be a motivator for some.

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I think the point has already been well made but I believe there is no connection whatsoever between last Monday's attendance and people's perception of the FAI.

Kevin Kilbane on OTB last night was quite critical of the diamond. He reckons it doesn't suit us because we don't have enough width in midfield and our width is provided by our full-backs who have to cross from so deep that the crosses are more diagonal balls. He reckons we need to get McGeady in the team for the Germany match and have Hoolahan on the other flank to cut into the hole. Kilbane asserts that the only way we'll score goals is from crosses- that was the crux of his argument.

I like the diamond in midfield. We've had a problem, particularly under Trap, whereby we were overrun in the middle by teams playing with 3. The big argument for Hoolahan's inclusion was to improve our ball retention. Obviously the opposition this month will be very different to next but I think the domination in the middle against Georgia suggests we should keep the diamond for the Germany match.

McClean and Hendrick created an opportunity and a goal against Georgia from positions which weren't all that wide. Furthermore, if we have Long and Walters up front against Germany then we'll be more capable of stretching them at the back. We must bear in mind that the midfield against Scotland when Walters and Long last played together was McGeady and McClean on the wings with Hendrick and Gibson in the middle. We were overrun in midfield and I think that partnership should be given a second opportunity with Wes in support, as well as Hendrick, McCarthy and AN Other (I'd have O'Kane in there but that's unlikely now, MON may prefer Quinn and there's also the prospect of Arter and Gibson being available).

In conclusion, injuries permitting, we can give Germany a game with:
Given (I'd have Westwood)
Coleman Clark O'Shea Brady
McCarthy
Hendrick O'Kane/Quinn/Gibson/Arter
Hoolahan
Long Walters

For the record, from what I could tell, if Kilbane's suggestion were taken into account, we'd line out something as follows:
Given
Coleman Clark O'Shea Brady
McGeady McCarthy Hendrick Hoolahan
Walters Long

Drives me a little bit mad people giving out about the lack of width. We had width for nearly six years under Trap and we weren't remotely creative for the vast majority of it. Being competitive in midfield is far more important. Width takes care of itself, to a certain extent anyway, if you have enough possession.

My "solution" to the problem of being overrun in midfield was to play a more narrow 3+1 with width from the full backs. I can see KK's criticism but midfield, while still not great, is probably better.

Brian Kerr in Irish Times sits between the two views and thinks we need one orthodox winger, though maybe that's closer to KK's thinking.

Interesting debate.

There's many factors for people not going to matches. One will be money and this time of year with the kids going back to school and coming home from holidays etc. money will be a bit tight. Which is understandable and they should put themselves before any football team!. Second will be the FAI and the team. I know people who are unhappy with the regime and want change and are voting with their feet which is fine in my book. The other is it's hard to connect or fall in love with the current team. The football is dull and it's more of a duty than enjoyment people go. Again I can see where people are coming from on this one. Another will be people picking and choosing matches. If money is tight then you'll miss Georgia at home to go to Germany at home. Plus for a lot of football fans Ireland isn't their no.1 team and the national team is just a casual thing which again that is people's business. I'll admit that I'm a casual fan who only goes to home games and prefer club football over international regardless of the standards. (I always preferred to win the European Cup than the World Cup as a kid)

But what annoys me is the arm chair fans and event junkies. I've a mate who calls himself a die hard fan but wont pay the money to go to see Ireland but yet sat in the pub on Friday and Monday watching the games. I know that's his business but these are the people we are up against and it gets on my nerves. They'll be looking for tickets if we get to France!

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Kevin Kilbane on OTB last night was quite critical of the diamond. He reckons it doesn't suit us because we don't have enough width in midfield and our width is provided by our full-backs who have to cross from so deep that the crosses are more diagonal balls. He reckons we need to get McGeady in the team for the Germany match and have Hoolahan on the other flank to cut into the hole. Kilbane asserts that the only way we'll score goals is from crosses- that was the crux of his argument.

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It's been podcasted here: http://cdn.radiocms.net/media/001/au...audio_file.mp3

Kerr was on co-commentary on Monday night on 2fm, and mentioned that he was going to buy tickets for his grandchildren, but balked at the price of €60 each, and it was noted on Off The Ball last night that he had reiterated this in his Irish Times column. However I couldn't find it in the online version - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...able-1.2343723 - but the €60 ticket was mentioned in the comments.

So, one quick google search later, and his complaint about the ticket price does appear on the google cache of the article: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=ie

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I went to buy two tickets for this game, for the grandchildren, but they cost €60 each. No thanks. I’m not the only one who felt this way; the crowd was made up of diehards only, and while it was heartening to hear them, it wasn’t until walking down Baggot Street that it felt like a football international was taking place in Dublin 4. That’s an hour before kick-off. Shame.

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I'd imagine the article was altered after the FAI stated on twitter that children's tickets were only €10: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status...91949446594561

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Contrary to a newspaper article today, children's tickets for last night's match v Georgia cost €10, and not €60 as reported.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Drives me a little bit mad people giving out about the lack of width. We had width for nearly six years under Trap and we weren't remotely creative for the vast majority of it. Being competitive in midfield is far more important. Width takes care of itself, to a certain extent anyway, if you have enough possession.

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Agreed. Even if many seem to like Kilbane as a pundit and fella, we must bear in mind what type of player he was when he makes these observations- his observation here is very relevant to his playing style.

One thing about the crowds at the actual event as opposed to those who would rather watch on tv....do you guys like actually attending sporting events anymore? I mean I loved it as a kid but generally I would much rather watch on tv now than be there in person. Long lines everywhere, security, paying for parking, annoying drunks, sometimes bad weather, price of concessions etc.... its much better just watching with a small group of friends and eating what you want. Just my opinion. ( Also the TVs are so high tech everywhere now that view is much better.) I get offered tix for free all the time and im always like........how would it be better than just watching on TV?

I paid €35 for a seat on the halfway line the other night. That's pretty good value I think. I'm pretty sure I paid €70 for the Gerogia game in Croke Park, which was insanity.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

One thing about the crowds at the actual event as opposed to those who would rather watch on tv....do you guys like actually attending sporting events anymore? I mean I loved it as a kid but generally I would much rather watch on tv now than be there in person. Long lines everywhere, security, paying for parking, annoying drunks, sometimes bad weather, price of concessions etc.... its much better just watching with a small group of friends and eating what you want. Just my opinion. ( Also the TVs are so high tech everywhere now that view is much better.) I get offered tix for free all the time and im always like........how would it be better than just watching on TV?

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I hate to be all Paul O'Shea but the view is not in any way better on TV, not in Ireland anyway.

I think that depends on the seats you have. Decent seats and you see far more at the game, rubbish seats and you see far more on TV.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

One thing about the crowds at the actual event as opposed to those who would rather watch on tv....do you guys like actually attending sporting events anymore? I mean I loved it as a kid but generally I would much rather watch on tv now than be there in person. Long lines everywhere, security, paying for parking, annoying drunks, sometimes bad weather, price of concessions etc.... its much better just watching with a small group of friends and eating what you want. Just my opinion. ( Also the TVs are so high tech everywhere now that view is much better.) I get offered tix for free all the time and im always like........how would it be better than just watching on TV?

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I suppose we go to support the team rather than for the entertainment. That's the difference. I have never gone to an Irish game for entertainment. If we win that is entertainment enough.

However, there is a huge bonus for the couch supporter in that they get to see all the action and replays of every incident. It really irritates me that the rugby (not sure about GAA) people in the stadium get replays on the big screen, but the football supporter, in case he riots, doesn't get that privilege.

The GAA (Croke Park) don't show replays of fouls or controversial decisions, but they do show replays of the scores.

I wouldn't say I go to 'support the team' a such. I just like going, it really is for nobody's benefit but my own. Danny mentioned 'sense of duty' also, these are concepts I don't really relate to. It's all for me and my own enjoyment!

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

One thing about the crowds at the actual event as opposed to those who would rather watch on tv....do you guys like actually attending sporting events anymore? ?

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Even the many many games I attend alone, I enjoy just as much as ever. For Scotland at home....securing a ticket that morning, skipping off the DART at Grand Canal and hot-footing it down the road to go and have a couple of pints (where even alone you'll probably get into a conversation with someone) to calm the nerves. I still get the buzz.

The old man is in his 60s and he's the same, though he only goes to GAA and LOI now.

Also, I really think that if you want to truly assess the performance of a team you need to be there, things can look very different on the telly. And I find that enjoyable, though I don't think it makes me an expert or anything. (Alright, I do, but aren't we all experts.)

When the Liverpool fans started booing Raheem Sterling in the game v England earlier this year that was pretty much the last straw for me. I've been to over a hundred Ireland games over many, many years, but I'm much less inclined to go now. I was increasingly aware that most people at ROI games were Premiership barstoolers, event junkies, and people in GAA jerseys singing 'The Fields of Athenry'. There's also a small but distasteful sectarian element amongst Irish fans - they're very prominent on the 'eligibility rules' forum here where their hatred of the Northern Ireland team is strongly in evidence.
The fearful, cautious football played under Trappatoni and O'Neill didn't help matters; but I've felt increasingly alienated from the national side over recent years. (And the hugely irritating chap who does the announcements at The Aviva is another reason not to go).

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

And the hugely irritating chap who does the announcements at The Aviva is another reason not to go

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he's gone now. you can come back

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Originally Posted by Siberian

I think the point has already been well made but I believe there is no connection whatsoever between last Monday's attendance and people's perception of the FAI.

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I think it could serve to augment any sense of "I couldn't be bothered with it all" amongst fairly loose or casual attendees. Just an inkling; I wouldn't know for sure. Maybe we need a national survey! :)

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

There's also a small but distasteful sectarian element amongst Irish fans - they're very prominent on the 'eligibility rules' forum here where their hatred of the Northern Ireland team is strongly in evidence.

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Hmm, there is a sectarian element amongst Irish fans - it's unfortunate and should be challenged - but can you highlight some examples of sectarianism on that thread in particular seeing as you've pinpointed it and pointed the finger at those who post prominently in it? I don't think sectarianism is a problem on this forum, but feel free to correct me.

I don't think the public's perception of the FAI, and the people who run it, is the main reason for not attending a game, but it doesn't help. If it was Germany/Spain/Brazil/etc then people will attend, no matter who's in charge.
If it's Georgia/San Marino/Macedonia, then it's another reason not to go.

Going to New Lansdowne is one of the most tedious experiences in modern football, once the game starts...

Despite being included in one of the Premium Level photo montages.
:eek:

Rather have the old ground but no Premium Level or photos...

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Going to New Lansdowne is one of the most tedious experiences in modern football, once the game starts...

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It said the same about you, to be fair.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Drives me a little bit mad people giving out about the lack of width. We had width for nearly six years under Trap and we weren't remotely creative for the vast majority of it. Being competitive in midfield is far more important. Width takes care of itself, to a certain extent anyway, if you have enough possession.

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Or, in other words, never mind the quality, feel the width.

Are the female fans complaining about the width?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I paid €35 for a seat on the halfway line the other night. That's pretty good value I think. I'm pretty sure I paid €70 for the Gerogia game in Croke Park, which was insanity.

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I have to say I think my season ticket is superb value. My ticket for the whole year cost me less than a pair of tickets for the Hurling on Sunday, and i am in a far better seat.

Attachment 2324

I do get annoyed about a few things. The DJ being top of my list of gripes. It can have a place if there is a lot of empty seats as a bit of music can help get a bit of atmosphere going, but when the ground is getting towards sold out i feel it really does prevent the crowd from getting going if that natural build of noise is being drowned out by U2 or some other crap.

The players are ref were clearly being prevented from starting the second half against Georgia because he wouldn't turn it off.

That one section middle and all the way to the right is totes empty. I could have sat there by myself! This would have taken away several issues with seeing games in person. Charlie Sheen once bought all the tickets to the upperdeck of an Angels baseball game to get a home run ball, but therr were no Home runs that day, natch.

PS I would recognize the top of that head in front of you anywhere.

Another gripe is the need for a minutes applause before every game. It seems a decision has been taken that everybody who ever served tea and coffee at Waterford United board meetings gets a minutes applause when they pass on. I feel it cheapens it a bit when one comes round for someone the people in the ground might actually have heard of is being remembered.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Kevin Kilbane on OTB last night was quite critical of the diamond. He reckons it doesn't suit us because we don't have enough width in midfield and our width is provided by our full-backs who have to cross from so deep that the crosses are more diagonal balls. He reckons we need to get McGeady in the team for the Germany match and have Hoolahan on the other flank to cut into the hole. Kilbane asserts that the only way we'll score goals is from crosses- that was the crux of his argument.

I like the diamond in midfield. We've had a problem, particularly under Trap, whereby we were overrun in the middle by teams playing with 3. The big argument for Hoolahan's inclusion was to improve our ball retention. Obviously the opposition this month will be very different to next but I think the domination in the middle against Georgia suggests we should keep the diamond for the Germany match.

McClean and Hendrick created an opportunity and a goal against Georgia from positions which weren't all that wide. Furthermore, if we have Long and Walters up front against Germany then we'll be more capable of stretching them at the back. We must bear in mind that the midfield against Scotland when Walters and Long last played together was McGeady and McClean on the wings with Hendrick and Gibson in the middle. We were overrun in midfield and I think that partnership should be given a second opportunity with Wes in support, as well as Hendrick, McCarthy and AN Other (I'd have O'Kane in there but that's unlikely now, MON may prefer Quinn and there's also the prospect of Arter and Gibson being available).

In conclusion, injuries permitting, we can give Germany a game with:
Given (I'd have Westwood)
Coleman Clark O'Shea Brady
McCarthy
Hendrick O'Kane/Quinn/Gibson/Arter
Hoolahan
Long Walters

For the record, from what I could tell, if Kilbane's suggestion were taken into account, we'd line out something as follows:
Given
Coleman Clark O'Shea Brady
McGeady McCarthy Hendrick Hoolahan
Walters Long

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It is an interesting discussion, I don't like it when we are over run in midfield at all.
There are many aspects to it, but when you are defending it really does help to have a strong midfield.

And indeed overall, midfield is where the battle for possession takes place, when you lose that battle
you have your work cut out.


And of course with out a midfield the only way you can really score goals is from crosses.

So it is kind of self fulfilling really, if you play with two wingers your goal will come form crosses
most of the time, but are we not flexible enough to do a bit of both?

Keep the opposition guessing, when you are predictable you are going to have a hard time
getting results.

Long fits the diamond better than Keane as he will naturally drift into wide areas, whereas Robbie doesn't have that movement anymore.

If we did go to wingers I'd bring Robbie back tbh. If we are getting crosses into the box for Walters, he is probably still our best option for getting a scrappy goal from a knockdown.

Though I'd stick with the diamond or a 4-2-3-1 vs Germany, depending on exactly who is available. I'd maybe try Wilson to take Whelan's place though

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Kerr was on co-commentary on Monday night on 2fm, and mentioned that he was going to buy tickets for his grandchildren, but balked at the price of €60 each, and it was noted on Off The Ball last night that he had reiterated this in his Irish Times column. However I couldn't find it in the online version - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...able-1.2343723 - but the €60 ticket was mentioned in the comments.

So, one quick google search later, and his complaint about the ticket price does appear on the google cache of the article: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=ie


I'd imagine the article was altered after the FAI stated on twitter that children's tickets were only €10: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status...91949446594561

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Well if Kerr is balking at the price on what I assume is an income far higher than most you can see why people of more
modest means stay at home.
60 is ridiculous so maybe the 10 is correct?

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

One thing about the crowds at the actual event as opposed to those who would rather watch on tv....do you guys like actually attending sporting events anymore? I mean I loved it as a kid but generally I would much rather watch on tv now than be there in person. Long lines everywhere, security, paying for parking, annoying drunks, sometimes bad weather, price of concessions etc.... its much better just watching with a small group of friends and eating what you want. Just my opinion. ( Also the TVs are so high tech everywhere now that view is much better.) I get offered tix for free all the time and im always like........how would it be better than just watching on TV?

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It is mainly the celebrities who go these days, David Beckham, Beyonce etc... it's a photo opportunity for them
to help sell more of their third rate perfume and aftershaves etc at ridiculous prices.

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/David...kham%20bin.JPG
Mugs basically.


http://www.concordextra.com/img_uplo...ve-15h032b.jpg
You would not see Robbie Keane stooping to such depths!!!

Mind you less scrupulous individuals have cashed in :p

https://img1.etsystatic.com/070/0/60...11507_2d03.jpg

Does anyone think Robbie has the ability and discipline to play the Hoolahan role? He's still a smart, technically gifted player and I think there's a role for him, I just don't think it's up top, solo. I've been thinking about this a lot since the Georgia game. It's like we haven't adjusted to the Robbie we have but then I also question if he could adjust to that role.

Can't teach an old dog new tricks as Nigel is fond of saying.

I advocated for Robbie in that role a couple of years ago but I'd say the tank is probably too low now. Hoolahan tracks all the way back to his own box when needed, or in pursuit of the ball, which Robbie wouldn't have the engine to do.