If we dont have natural height and strength in the team naturally we shouldnt be trying to falsely force it. Just because we have a history of long ball to the big man since Jack doesnt mean that we have to constantly try it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
We have players who are decent on the ball and should be trying to get the most out of Robbie, McCarthy, Coleman, Long, McGeady etc
great three points away from home,had plenty possession but did not create anything,the fact remains we just do not have the players.hopefully MON will get the best out of this group of players,tbf we actually passed quite well early on ,lost our way at different stages,but kept plugging away to get the points.delighted MON had a go at TOD,sick of the constant negative angle to his interviews ,the big shock is he never asked MON about ...our national saviour...wes...after the game,..oh hold on we won.
Pfft, close enough.
He scored almost as many goals to day as in the rest of his international football career!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ken foree
He seems to finally found end product, long may it continue!
France could only manage a draw in Georgia last year, Spain only beat them 1-0
maybe they could even give Germany a spot of bother when they go there?
They're a competent defensive outfit. One or both of Scotland and Poland will drop points when they travel to Tbilisi. Georgia's goalscorer tonight, Okriashvili, also looked a dangerous player if given enough space.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
I agree. In fairness, though we didn't hoof it that much until we started to get tired and desperate. Unfortunately all those players you mentioned, except McGeady, underperformed. Long gets a pass since he was off the bench, and Coleman did ok in the first period but Robbie was too isolated and McCarthy did very little except the very composed assist for the goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Not sure about that - Scotland holding Germany 1-1Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
It's 2-1 but, regardless, Northern Ireland have made a great habit of beating higher seeds and falling over to supposed minnows. Scotland or Poland or us or anyone can easily put it up to a Germany or Spain and then get sucker punched by a Georgia or Estonia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
Yeah and for all our ability to beat minnows more than them the difference is a sum total of one more tournament than Scotland since we were last able to get credible results; and that was an Armenian favor more than our ingenuity.
Totally pointless using a 4-5-1 with Whelan as an anchorman against a side that were 5-4-1 in the defensive phase, making us unnecessarily a man light in the attacking phase.
Also meant that Keane was a lone striker with no ten in behind, a role that he is patently unsuited to.
Worse still, O'Neill showed no intention of changing it, instead using his subs to make straight swaps and freshen things up. And as someone else pointed out, his final sub, planned before the equaliser, could be interpreted as a "we have what we hold" move.
In short, we got out of jail in a big way. After going 4-2-3-1 for the majority of the friendly games, he bottled it today against a side with negligible attacking intent.
http://tacticstruck2.wordpress.com/2...ve-management/
On tonight's performances and ours, I'd say we could be struggling to finish 3rd in the group.
Serious doubts about our management and team tactics!
Come back Mr Trapattoni all is forgiven!
What more would Trap's tactics have achieved? This evening's tactics (away from home) weren't all that dissimilar to the type Trap would employ, other than us holding on to the ball a lot better tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsSdhWq1JzY
It''s the McGeady spin!!!
I can't deny that I'm critical of and disappointed in many parts of tonight but we also must be the only country in the world who beat ourselves up over having a gifted talent win a match for us.
The only difference between Trap and O'Neill tonight is that Trap would be delighted and change nothing, whereas we don't know yet whether O'Neill will think the same or whether he copped on to what could be done better and will modify things. Only time will tell and whereas my suspicion is that not much will change there's more than a decent chance O'Neill will take stock of the competitive games to make revisions. He deserves the benefit of the doubt after one game.
People being unnecessarily hard on MON for me. I'd imagine the thinking behind Walters on the right was either to do something the Georgians wouldn't be used to dealing with, or to target a weakness they had identified in their left back. And low and behold there was a flick on from Walters on the right in the build up to the 1st goal.
Via Robbie, the final ball that slipped McGready in to finish was played by McCarthy. I do tend to agree with the point Giles made about all our creativity being ahead of the ball, but to play devils advocate for a second, if he had been sitting deep he wouldn't have been in position to play that ball. Sadly we only have one James McCarthy.
The constant harking back to Hoolahan also frustrates me. He is 32 now, will be 34 by the time of the Euros, and it's not as if the great clubs of Europe were beating their way to East Anglia to secure his signature when Norwich were relegated. Robbie Brady is younger, playing at a higher level, offers a threat at set pieces, and is a better option for me. It would seem Martin O'Neill agrees.
I did agree with Giles though. What went on ahead of the ball was an aside compared to the problems we had in midfield. I thought Glenn Whelan should have been hooked shortly after half time. With the possession we enjoyed, IMHO it was crying out for Gibson to come on and pick up pinging passes around the park where he left of against Oman.
To be fair, I think the hankering for Hoolahan is not so much because he's a great player but because he's a different sort of player who has gifts we are in short supply of. I don't think anybody would claim he's on the same level of Nasri or whoever.
Highlights starting on RTE for anyone who hasn't had enough excitement after the live game. Think they'll be showing highlights of the other two games as well.
Ha, it took me a good half hour to get used to the slow pace of the "saccar"Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I appreciate that, and it's not like I'm claiming Brady is on the same level as Neymar, or that Gibsons passing ability would have him mistaken for Pirlo in midfield. But Brady is as capable as producing a bit of magic as Hoolahan, and he was the 1st man O'Neill put onto the park. Maybe a bit later than some, myself included, would have liked, but if we're down to debating if the sub came 10 mins later than some would have liked, and we won the game anyway, it's not much to be getting our knickers is a twist about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
It was a great win. Either Scotland or Poland will drop points there. Georgia away is the fixture that will cost someone of them dearly.
It won't be us!
There was some hoofball, but nowhere near as much as would have occurred under Trap. Far more short passing and use of the centre midfield area, thank God.
It's hard to credit the negativity around the performance, it was bad enough to have ronnie whelan obsessively whining and moaning for 90 minutes and getting paid for it. This is us playing away against a run of the mill eastern block country, who were built up to be a difficult team, who could play better technical football than us, a team that made better teams than us struggle mightly even for a draw.When has it ever been any different, when have we ever played better? Charlton? Kerr? McCarthy? Trap? I can't recall any markedly better performance against these type of countries in a qualifying group campaign. The 2 outstanding goals does set it apart though, it's a bit of an upgrade from a Cascarino header in a crowded box or a gammy Gary Docherty intervention.
This performance is as good as it has ever been and yet we know we can play a good deal better and will play better
I never got for one minute that we were settling for a draw and we got the 3 points with an outrageously skillful goal. It's a time for looking at the half full glass.
I can't remember a single away game against Eastern European opposition in the last 20-odd years that hasn't turned into a heavy slog and a collective feeling of 'phew, got away with that one' Macedonia anyone? (ok, it's a few hundred miles away from Georgia, but shush). The performances left a lot to be desired, but within a historical context it was par for the course in my eyes. We have never hammered these sorts of teams, never when they were unknown quantities and new nations post-Berlin wall, and never when their squads made for a whistlestop tour of European footballing nations.
I guess it didn't help that there was 10 months of waiting around for this moment, it was always going to disappoint bar a 6-0 thumping. Watching the highlights package and its sensible (if a little dour) analysis from Kenny Cunningham though just highlights the sort of shrill, negative attention-seekers that populate the 'first team' of RTE's panelists. It has been said over and over again but Dunphy and co. add nothing to the discussion except loud obnoxious negativity, which is not the same as cold criticism; it never can be. The sooner they retired or are retired the better, as far as I'm concerned they're as poisonous to the health of Irish soccer as someone like John Delaney.
Oh, sorry, I wasn't accusing you of anything like that, just saying Hoolahan has the ability to pick a pass that most of our players don't have. McGeady could be the answer, depending on whether he gets a run there for Everton with Barkley out. His winning goal today was a result of him pushing into the centre.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
They went as far as to complain about being branded "negative" today. I turned off. Giles is OK, the rest, they're worthless, so is Whelan, so is O'Donoghue. Just nasty, unjustifiably bitter people, who think people are complaining about their reasoned critique when it is frequently anything but.
I'm inclined to agree with you but I don't think they're technically better by any stretch, just perhaps better drilled to utilise their technical skill. They gave the ball away constantly with poor basic skills for which we'd be slating Whelan et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Your point on McGeady's winner is good. When in recent memory have we been having a bit of trouble and been able to say we have a player who is capable of doing something amazing to break the deadlock? Think of Alaba's goal in Dublin, Ibrahimovic against numerous teams, Lewandowski, McGeady has the assets to be our matchwinner. Portugal were without Ronaldo tonight and they got beaten at home by Albania. These are teams not much better than us who have somebody that elevates them higher. We shouldn't turn up our nose when we benefit from the same.
Been thinking about it for a few hours now and Im struggling to think of a better Irish goal ever thank McGeadys winner tonight. The skill and finish were fantastic.
Given the context of the timing of the goal can anyone think of a better goal?
McGeady's goal nominated for goal of the night on Sky Sports: http://www1.skysports.com/watch/vide...tender-mcgeady
The Albania winner was special as well ..... against Portugal!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Better as in technically, individually better? I'm struggling too. Whelan v USSR maybe. As a team goal, I'd say Robbie v Germany 2002 is up there, as is McAteer's v Holland the same year. Both terrific goals from a standpoint of players choosing the right option and executing it under pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Whelan is one of my favorites ever, but the fact that he shinned it takes from it a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Robbies against Germany was probably the most exciting ever considering what it meant, but technically is was just a long ball, flick on and decent finish.
McAteer was a great finish but was terrible defending given how much space he had.
The way McGeady controlled the ball, the turn and the finish tonight ,under pressure away from home was special I think
Aye, but I think you're taking too many marks off for Robbie's goal being route one. The punt upfield (Shay?) and Quinn's knock-down were inch-perfect, and Robbie's control and finish were exceptional against a brick wall of a goalkeeper who was putting in probably the best run of form in World Cup history. It wasn't pretty but it was a technically excellent goal, just as McGeady's was a technically excellent individual effort.
Robbie Keane's goal VS Holland in 2004 is a personal favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl9ukGgaXjw
Dont get me wrong, Im not critisising Robbies goal at all, and I might be getting a bit carried away with McGeadys goal because it just happened tonight but from a pure skill point of view I think McGeadys is the best Ive seen
That was a brilliant goal.... was that just a friendly though? I cant rememberQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Well that guy on Celtic did say Aiden was the next Ronaldo, right?
This was a great weekend. Ireland win and Notre Dame kick the **** out of Michigan. Awesome.
Granted that was a rocket form Keane, nice sound effects on it too, very empathetic, however it is essentiallyQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
one strike of the ball albeit a brilliant one. Aidens has more build up and more elements of skill. There is quality ball in from
Coleman, great first touch, I think the defender may have got a nudge on the ball or Aiden, then with his back to goal
he does a brilliant spin combined with a top class finish. We don't score many like that.
McGeady's goal was magic, I'd rank it up there alongside Kevin Doyle's left foot finish against Slovakia back in 2007, which is my personal all time favourite Ireland goal.
Spare a thought for Georgia though, from their point of view that was a real sickener, their no 16 just drops to his knees
thinking like WTF! Would have been a decent result for them, they have not faired too well against us recently.
By the way I think we were playing 4-1-4-1 with Keane and Whelan being the 1's McCarthy and Quinn centre-midfield
McGeady and Walters on the wing but with flexibility McGeady was drifting more central as was Walters with when
the wing backs got forward. Only seen a bit of the game were I could make out the players clearly though.
Quite different from Traps flat 442.
Lucky doesn't come close but they won!
An awful performance/great result from someone who was, er, there...