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Well they were two up by the time Chile had the player sent off, possibly made Spain complacent if anything and, fair enough, it got nervy in the second half. My point remains that it's Spain's regression as opposed to Holland or Chile's progression that have closed the gap.
I think both teams have gotten better too.
And Drogba is on the bench, Crosby.
And if you were to apportion percentages of improvement in Holland and Chile compared to Spain's percentage in decline, what would you attribute to each? I'm not convinced Holland have improved at all, possibly even gone backwards. I'd give Chile maybe a 20% improvement with some of their key players hitting their prime but the main factor is Spain's regression which must be close to 70%. A pretty crude barometer I accept :)
It was a thrilling game with plenty of bite and just goes to show that the boring part of tikka taka were the parked busses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I wouldn't get into percentages but I think Chile are significantly better this time. I could see them as semi-finalists or more this time around whereas last time I don't think they ever really thought they could get past Brazil, and that's with Arturo Vidal only half-fit. The Netherlands is a totally different team to four years ago and, in my opinion, the likes of Daley Blind and Martins Indi are much better suited to playing a positive passing game than the likes of Heitinga or Ooijer.
Netherlands have become a little less germanic since the last WC. Their so called weak link, the young defenders from their local league, have done well.
I was positively beaming with their exit. Their victory in the last WC left a sour taste in my mouth. It was akin to Greece in 2004 with some classy players and some extra passes. Whilst I found the approach fascinating, I was never under the impression that I was watching something beautiful or great.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
This Chile side are far from the one in 2010 and even the 2010 vintage weren't some two bit operation. In the lead up to this WC Chile's extra bit of oomph was gonna trouble the Spanish. And so it passed.
Spain trundled and ruthlessly passed their way to the final. Remember their performance against Paraguay? Spain were blessed in that game. For a great side it was odd that any "great" performances were kept for the Euros. Against teams I suppose they knew and players they were used to.
The Dutch of 2010 used tactics that would disrupt the Spanish rhythm as we all know that if you allowed that side, like Barca, to dictate play you end up with a an absolute walloping to go home with.
I won't lament their demise, they bored me into submission.
I'd agree with this. I would say my issues stem from one of two things being that I have to watch CBC (you have no idea how soccer coverage can get until you experience this) if I don't stay in to watch it online on RTÉ or BBC/ITV and the fact that with the timings specific to cater for the European audience I get caught out with work. Thankfully I'm off today.Quote:
I'm enjoying watching loads of football every day but I can't honestly claim to be enjoying the tournament itself as much as some on here. Plenty of goals but very few excellent games or team performances. I would exclude Germany from this and there has been the odd game here and there really worth watching.
Shows what a decent coach and some organisation will do, Imagine, Ron Vlaar could have a WC medal... Cruyff won't.Quote:
I think it speaks volumes when the Dutch are (rightly) one of the favourites with the likes of Vlaar and De Guzman in their starting line up. It's a far cry from the days of Koeman and Rijkaard, not to mention their even heavier hitters!
I thoroughly enjoyed their dismantling of Spain (obviously) but they were odd against Australia. It was like they could score at will if they wanted to but they barely went for it. It was like they had considered the hard work had been done.
But it's Italy. Get them outta the group and they become a different beast. As 2006 (the greatest ever WC) showed that when they get on a roll and they have belief in the side there is nothing to stop them.Quote:
I'll be supporting Italy all the way now, there is something really classy about them even though they look weaker than their teams of the past.
At the outset of tournaments I generally want to see Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Argentina do well or win.
So I don't think I'll be too disappointed for once.
I think as defenders they probably are weaker than the last lot but they are part of an overall playing style whereas in South Africa they basically had six limited defenders and relied on keeping a clean sheet and for the flair players to do something. Similar to this Brazil side really.
Dunphy at it again. Colombia's Zapata plays for Zaragoza in Spain apparently.
Van Gaal is doing alright with what he has at his disposal, like always he tends to blow his own trumpet about his input but ultimately this team are not a vehicle for his ego, that weight is just too much for most teams to drag along.
Anything he can do Alan Hansen can do too. Just generic ramblings about "keeping it tight". And as for Lineker, Colombia are very like "Chile"... In what way Gary? They're name begins with "c"? They're in South America? We'll never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Dunphy is painful to watch here! Rabbit in the headlights!
Maybe he means Colombians eat Chili?
Not sure what your point is here. They only had three games against non-European opposition, beating Honduras comfortably and I felt they managed that high pressure game against Chile pretty well. Yeah, they rode their luck against Paraguay, very few teams win anything without one of those games. They still stuck to their philosophy and eventually got their reward. The complete domination of an excellent German team in the semi final is somehow diluted because they're European?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Well yeah, that was my point. It's not really taking a whole pile to succeed because the standard isn't great. A bit like that Greece side you were repulsed by doing well with similar organisational capabilities, although I'm not convinced the Dutch are even that organised, Australia should have scored a couple more at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Fair enough but you kind of remind me of a Fianna Fail supporter that will stick with them regardless. :) I loved the Dutch side that had Van Basten & Co but I'm not going to like the current crop on the back of what once was. Same with Brazil. I feel that it would be bad for Brazilian football, and by extension football everywhere, if they are successful with their current brand. If the likes of themselves and the Dutch don't fly the flag for inventive, glamorous football then things are hitting a serious downer I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
2006 best WC ever? I think too many games were decided on the penalty shoot outs (the Final included) to be regarded as the best ever ? I am hard pressed to recall any classic game except perhaps France vs Spain.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
I usually support Germany is these tournaments because they're usually the team hated by everyone else, especially our friends across the water. Glad to see you have time for them. Usually don't like Italy because as a WC Watcher of a certain vintage, their play used to be based on defence with scoring goals a secondary thought.
The semi between Germany and Italy was by a mile the best of that tournament, and in my opinion one of the best ever.
My prediction for the England Uruguay game later is that England will win, Rooney will score and make everyone think he is "World Class" again for the 5 minutes until the next game, and that Suarez will do something controversial that he will use to force a move to Spain saying that the English media are forcing him out.
Not always. Some parked buses can be entertaining. Tikki Takka was brutal to watch in all of it's guises I felt. I find more joy out of defensive discipline coupled with quick countering. That's just me however.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I see what you're getting at. But say if Paraguay had gotten through that game and faced Germany in the semi- and then the Germans won the final against the Dutch we would be talking about this "great" German team.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
History is written by the winners of course, but I feel that that's why Spain get oversold as "great".
They won 3 tournaments on the trot, they were very impressive in Euro2012 and I think that was their greatest moment. But that WC was not as glorious or as wonderful a victory I think that some people remember it to be.
It really is a six-of-one conversation. I dislike their style of play. You liked it. So of course our opinions will be poles apart. But there's merit in all arguments.
I just feel that a truly great side when they come up against a team who nullify their plan-A should have a plan-B and -C etc.
Spain had that one miserable style and that was it.
Most of my repulsion for the Greek side was that it was Greece. Nothing to really do with their "puke" football. There was merit in their approach.Quote:
Well yeah, that was my point. It's not really taking a whole pile to succeed because the standard isn't great. A bit like that Greece side you were repulsed by doing well with similar organisational capabilities, although I'm not convinced the Dutch are even that organised, Australia should have scored a couple more at least.
As came up in the WC final 2010 and that infamous Chelsea-Barca Semi-; you play to your strengths. And that's what Greece did. If they got knocked out in the second round we wouldn't even blink about that side.
Well... hmmmm... No.Quote:
Fair enough but you kind of remind me of a Fianna Fail supporter that will stick with them regardless. :) I loved the Dutch side that had Van Basten & Co but I'm not going to like the current crop on the back of what once was. Same with Brazil. I feel that it would be bad for Brazilian football, and by extension football everywhere, if they are successful with their current brand. If the likes of themselves and the Dutch don't fly the flag for inventive, glamorous football then things are hitting a serious downer I feel.
I loved those Dutch sides too. And the Euro 2000 vintage was glorious too and the one I adored. But the Dutch were impressive in qualifying and to annihilate the "great" Spaniards in the fashion they did was glorious. That was beautiful football. That that side has De Jong in it as an enforcer is not a bad thing. I like that teams don't have 11 Iniestas or 11 Souness'. It takes all sorts. And De Jong was an integral cog in that destruction last Friday.
From start to finish that WC kept be fixated. Game after game of twists and turns and ups and downs.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
In the groups we had: ARG-NED, ARG-SRB, POR-MEX, ITA-GHA, ITA-USA, GHA-USA, CRO-BRA
Knock-out: ARG-MEX, ITA-AUS, POR-NED, SPA-FRA, BRA-FRA, ENG-POR, ARG-GER, GER-ITA, ITA-FRA...
As Delorean says that semi was one of the greatest world cup games. But the QF between ARG and GER was cracking too. ITA-AUS was unbelievable in how it panned out. BRA-FRa was a classic in the old-school WC mode and then there's the ARG-SRB demolition... how can you forget this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5W6vBI3mGE&feature=kp
I love Germany. Always have. This current German side are devastating.Quote:
I usually support Germany is these tournaments because they're usually the team hated by everyone else, especially our friends across the water. Glad to see you have time for them. Usually don't like Italy because as a WC Watcher of a certain vintage, their play used to be based on defence with scoring goals a secondary thought.
In saying that I do have a love for Italy too. Which has weathered some of the miserable and dour performances over the years.
True dat. True dat.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
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To get back to today. I was already enjoying this game but my god this is some second half. Colombia are a joy to watch.
If Suarez does something controversial that contributes to England losing, he'll be stripped of all accolades won by him, before his departure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I tipped Colombia to make a shock exit from their group, now with a few minutes to go it looks to be a shocking tip.
Colombia are one of my favorite teams to watch in this WC. James Rodriguez is an absolutely fantastic player
They're a super watch. Really want them to go on from here.
I agree with Razor. England wake up and win one today.
I certainly hope notQuote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Darron Gibson @D_gibson4 11m More
Come on England!!!!!!!
What an incredible goal.
Excellent awareness from Cavani, expertly timed run from Suarez with Lodeiro providing the creativity that England are so sorely lacking. Caceres and Alvaro Gonzalez providing more end product down the right flank. Godin very lucky not to be sent off though and England unlucky with a couple of decisions.
Can't understand why Gerrard and Henderson are playing.
Johnson is woeful.
England have real problems down the flanks. Welbeck and Sterling aren't going to do much defending, Johnson isn't good and Baines looks a bit lost.
Uruguay let them hang around....
Yep England should have been buried by nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I started rooting against Uruguay bc the whole team does that thing where they pretend to be in dire pain with any tap. Worst ive seen in the wc so far. I hate that sh!t.
You must have missed Spain-Chile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I think uruguay is worse!
Sometimes the off sides thing makes no sense to me. What is the actual rule, that you can start going when it comes off the guys foot? Like why isnt saurez offsides there if he was in front of the defender and the ball wasnt there yet? To someone that doesnt know much about this sport it seems inconsistant to me. And everyone I work with.
England are really poor. Defensively they couldn't Suarez, midfield duo if Gerrard and Henderson look slow and creaky, and the forward line was all pace and little else. And "redemption for Wayne Rooney" says Hamilton, give me a break. It was a tap in created entirely by Johnson.
Completely agree with you. This may be a first.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Gerrard is **** poor. Absolutely positively not good enough for that role.
I admire your honesty. Gerrard hit the last ball back to Suarez; couldn't be offside then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
EDIT: Suarez was onside when Muslera kicked it out. He played the percentages. Stunning player. And not fit apparently. :)
They were shown up completely, though I feel like we say this every 2 years. But they had nothing for Uruguay. Absolutely nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Tactical masterclass from Tabarez.
Hart was poor for Suarez's second. Went down way too early. Muslera was brilliant.
Steven Gerrard has to be the most over rated player Ive ever seen. Hes a decent player but hes a million miles away from World class midfield general hes made out to be.
I think Benitez was the only manager to play him in his proper position of just off the striker when he played behind Torres. In midfield he flies into the odd big tackle and has the Hollywood pass but he is very poor defensively and his ego gets in the way too often.
But it's not like it's not obvious at all. I still can't figure it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
There's of course the odd strike from outside the box don't forget which galvanises the "legend". He was poor tonight. Along with many others. But they aren't the captain, leader, legend.
Its bugged me for years. There is an obsession with himQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
As much as I hate him. Terry at least played a leaders role and has positioning of a laser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
It's quite simple. Steven Gerrard wants to play in centre midfield so that's where he'll play, even when it's clearly not to the benefit of the team. Rafa was the only coach with the cojones/tactical ability to tell him where to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Would I be talking rubbish if i said I think England still have an outside chance?:p
Well Benno, if you ask the question 'am I talking rubbish when ......? ' the default answer is usually yes, but if it's a betting question then that's a different matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt