Where are the goals supposed to come from? In the league, Jon Walters has 3 goals from open play in the last year. Only one of those came since last November and that was just him bundling over Bogdan on the last day of the season. If we were away Walters (effectively) alone up front might make sense, but at home not so much.
I..it..erm..umm..never mind, I'm a complete plank todayQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Am I the only one not happy to see ward off and kelly on for coleman? Everything else I'm pretty happy with. The only reason I see ward still in there at the moment is because of my point further down , that is that he is more attack minded than say kelly or wilson in that position, and given all the other disruption, he and Mcgeady have a good understanding of his system and tactics and experience of playing together compared with the other players in the team. Having said that if the system and formation is completely different then that negates the point about Ward and Mcgeady having a good understanding of traps system and tactics - perhaps they just have a good understanding of eachother and eachothers game, and thats what works. I still shudder at the thought of our left side comprising Mcgeady and Ward, it is so weak defensively. I personally think when you have a rasping winger like Mcgeady you need a solid full back, who stays put, and then give the mcgeady the freedom of just attacking rather than attacking and defending - he never does one very effectively cos he has to concentrate on both.
I actually think Trap is well aware that Walters offers less of a threat than Long, but realises if we are chasing a game or holding out for a draw that Long offers far more of a goal threat at that time of the match than if he started. It's a very astute move in my opinion - but there's a caveat, that he starts walters up top and not Cox.
I'm actually happy with this, he has set out his stall - as he mentioned coleman is more attack minded than kelly, as is ward than wilson - he is going with an attacking 11 rather than a back four and midfield who sit back and "attempt" to soak up pressure. What I cant understand is why he has waited this long and in such an important game when we were all looking for this? The cynic in me thinks that he knows this is a lost cause but there is something to gain personally by playing what has been suggested all along, getting a walloping and then having a "told you so" moment like the Uruguay game.
I hope the players go out their and prove this formation and tactics worth it - but I really don't hold out much hope. Its strange I am always somewhat optimistic going into games that we can achieve a backs to the wall draw, but I can't even see this now. Traps point of experience is ringing in my ear.
Assuming this is a 4-5-1 with Cox or Walters wide then the onus will be on that wide player to get forward to supoprt the lone striker. That potentially leaves Coleman pretty exposed and I don't think he is good enough to deal with it. Similar point has been made about the left side but I think McGeady will be more disciplined and whilst I'm not a Ward fan I think he'll cope better. I expect we will get hammered on Coleman's wing.
McGeady and Ward were on the left away to Russia, correct?
OK, fair point. Expect it down both flanks so. For me it's just the wrong position, wrong match for Coleman. Lots of people will see it as positive but it's flawed in my opinion, should have been Kelly & Coleman.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Ah those countries are all the same out that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Funnily out there they'd probably be saying the same about ourselves and England/Scotland etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Walters is a completely different player from Keane in every way. Not starting Long (like for like)is beyond ridiculous at this stage. Far from unsettling the German defense Walters as the lone battering ram is playing into the Germans hands. Cox has offered nothing in the competitive games he has played. Gets involved for about 10mins then becomes a spectator. Its going to be up to the likes of McCarthy to step up another gear for us to have any chance.
Coleman over Kelly is a ridiculous, bizarre and disappointing decision. Kelly has been one of our most reliable players the past few years and has been very unfortunate to not have a starting place, whereas Coleman has been poor in each of his cameos. To not start him under any circumstances would be mystifying, to not do it when we're desperately short of experience and composure is outright bizarre. Certainly hope Trap knows what he's doing with this because I'd say this is one of and if not the most wild and potentially costly selections decisions he's made in his tenure.
Kelly hasn't started a competitive match at any level in six months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Trapattoni; 'We have changed the team and brought in younger players. This team is now very, very young.'
Average age of Irish team: 27.
Average age of expected German team: 26.
We've only played 4 competitive matches in six months. Kelly played a significant number of games on our road to qualification to the Euro's and did well when called upon. Perhaps you misread years as months because otherwise it's an odd thing to point out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
In fairness the average age of the squad has gone from 28.35 to 26.21. It's an improvement(although entirely enforced)Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
obviously confusing youth with inexperience...Quote:
Trapattoni; 'We have changed the team and brought in younger players. This team is now very, very young.'
Average age of Irish team: 27.
Average age of expected German team: 26.
I just want to say that Trappatoni's hands were somewhat tied with regards to his team selections so despite getting some things right (by accident as opposed to by design) he got the two big issues wrong and a number of other smaller issues that we have become used to (Cox on the wing being the most obvious smaller issue).
Ward instead of Wilson is the wrong choice. Wilson has impressed me no end in the games and highlights i have seen of Stoke this year. At left back. In the premiership. Although i have a soft spot for Ward, what he offers is not even close to what Wilson offers us in the same position.
Cox/Walters instead of Long is the wrong choice. I wont press this one too much other than to say this one is the biggest mistake he has made in a litany of mistakes. Ignoring his form and the fact that he is our only striker playing at the highest level, Longs performance up front against Uruguay was the single most impressive display i have seen from an Irish player in an international game since the days of Roy Keane. That he loses out to Walters or Cox (whomever it turns out to be) is beyond bizarre and is indefensible.
Anyway, as i said in a previous post, this game is a win/win for Trap. Lose and he wins. Win and he wins big.
Amusingly our starting lineup has a combined career total of 11 goals, Germany has 117. Our most prolific scorer is on 3.
I don't think we've ever even put a team out for a friendly game that was this weak and inexperienced under Trap.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. He hasn't started a match AT ANY LEVEL, including club level, in six months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Other than Long for Walters it's as good as a team as we can expect. Will have to hope we can withstand the initial onslaught and maybe grab one in the break or in off someone's arse. Will be at the match shouting as loud as I can.
I've lost track - is Pearce in the squad?
Agree with SkStu - Wilson is a far superior player than Ward.
Mind you if he plays McShane then there is a chance Wilson will get on - assuming Ward gets a firm kick in the heel!
Coleman starting is a strange one given his best assets as a full back are thingsTrap doesn't permit his fullbacks to do?
Like most I'm mystified by Longs abscence.
Had Wilson not pulled out of a couple of squads i wonder would he have displaced Ward in Traps thinking.
I would have Kelly and Wilson as full backs. McGeady and Coleman on the flanks. Long up front. And possibly controversialy Meyler for Fahy..
What's this then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19340530
I don't consider the league cup to be a competitive match. Fwiw, Kelly didn't even complete the full 90 in that match. He hasn't played a single minute in the Premiership in Fulham's first seven matches.
Coleman, on the other hand, has played 308 minutes in the Premiership so far this season.
These are the exact two changes I'd be calling for. Although, in fairness, Walters is playing at the highest level as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Wilson is definitely a better left-back than Ward. He's more comfortable on the ball when being pressed (as a centre-midfielder by trade) and his positioning is better than Ward's. I was about to say he is a tad small than Ward, but, as it turns out, he's an inch taller.
I'd have Long in for Cox from the off. In the press conference Trap constantly referred to the need to have someone coming from the bench who can "surprise" the opposition and capitalize on tiredness or lapses in concentration. This totally ignores the fact that for the 60 minutes when Long is not on the pitch, Ireland will have to contain Germany to the extent that our main attacking threat can come in and hand us a result, in a more limited time frame. This is nonsensical. Germany could score a goal, then provide themselves with a quick second before Long has even loosened the drawstrings on his tracksuit pants. The game is over by then.
Cox is a decent player, don't get me wrong. But he won't worry Germany too much. He's not that mobile that he'll interchange between the right of a 3-pronged forward line and a front two in such a manner that tactically baffles some of the more astute footballers on the continent. How I'd love for him to score one of his wonder-goals tomorrow night, from nothing.
There are three things Long is capable of: playing on the wing, playing up front and scoring goals. He's better than Cox at all three (playing on the wing is the only arguable one, an argument which the Kazakhstan game should have settled).
I would even allow him the mistake of using Cox / Walters if Long proves to be an impact when he comes on. But you are spot on about Ward. Germany will tear him apart. And Wilson will be sitting there wondering what he has to do to get on ahead of a player as bas as Ward. And then when he (Wilson) doesn't show up for the next game we'll all be wondering why?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I don't think that not winning your 3rd cap against Germany is grounds for International Retirement at age 25.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Otherwise, given the circumstances I think this team is as good as it could be.
I would perhaps have argued to recall Lawrence, he seems in good form out in Greece and would have been ideal for this type of match.
I probably missed this earlier in the thread but who will be captain for Ireland tomorrow?
o'shea
Would agree with many here, I would have liked to have seen Wilson start. Considering our injuries, it is not a bad team and gives the likes of McCarthy and Coleman an opportunity to prove themselves against one of the best teams in the world. C'mon Ireland!
Boateng starting for the Germans. I thought he was really poor against Italy in the Euros (choked)and hopefully continues like that tomorrow. They still have a top drawer team even with their injury list. We have to hope they don't click as a unit. And under no circumstances can we go behind early or really at all.
I get the thinking behind Cox, I would even have been intrigued when it was first mooted for him to be an extra midfielder without the ball, moving into an attacking role when we have the ball. 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 or what have you. But there is only so many times where it doesn't work before you really start to get exasperated. We'll see tomorrow.
Much as I admire Seamus Coleman I fear for him in this game.
Despite all his promise I don't believe he has developed into a top defender. His attributes in an attacking sense won't be permitted so I see him as being on a hiding to nothing tomorrow night.
I would love nothing more than for him to prove me wrong obviously.
I wasn't convinced on the evidence of his last game for Everton at full back. I worry he might give away a peno as he has a tendecy to lunge in when it is not necessary. But he has some excellent qualities and I'm HOPING that his speed and especially distribution (possibly the reason Trapatonni chose him) will win out tomorrow. O'Shea has the most important job tomorrow in organising our defense. We cant start off flat footed like we did at the Euro's. O'Shea has to get on Ward's case from the off and stop him being pulled out of position.Quote:
Originally Posted by dong
I take your overall point and Long's proven himself at this level - but really? Long was pretty good as I recall, but that game was notable for featuring two sides who didn't appear to bother with any kind of defending. End-to-end kick and rush, chances and goals galore - it was probably the oddest Ireland friendly I've ever seen, more street kickabout than typical international.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Entertaining as it was, it wasn't the kind of game to enhance reputations.
I think this is a bit simplistic. You're right, it doesn't matter when the Germans find out, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will adapt to our tactics. Trap was right to be open about the 433/451 (he won't play a 442 no matter what he says), and for a side like Ireland, who have to set up to spoil the superior opposition's plans, it doesn't matter that the formation is known in advance because Germany aren't planning to counter our formation, they're planning to play their own game regardless of how we're set up. They will play the same way in any case, but we can definitely shut them down with the right game plan, and in a lot of ways international football is suited to teams like Ireland who can nullify the opposition's strengths.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
We played two up top against Kazakhstan, this is completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Wow, I knew he was stocky but I didn't know his thighs were that thick. That would indeed cause a problem for any defence, if only for making the surface more slippery.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
You're going to feel so silly when this is exactly what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
Playing in a 442, incidentally, alongside a striker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
3 ex-League of Ireland players starting with 3 more on the bench. Doyle probably would have started if fit, and McClean also failed a fitness test. That's as good an endorsement of the league as we've had in yonks, yet still there'll not even be such thing as a half-time announcement encouraging fans to get out and see their local clubs on Saturday.
Just about to head to bed and the excitement is truly building now. No idea what to expect...
http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.c...ith-rosary.jpg
Sweet Jesus, just give them strength!
It is going to be an interesting game. While were are up against it to even manage a draw, a result would give Ireland the shot in the arm, confidence wise, that it needs. If we lose, the post mortem will include criticism, I am sure, of Trap's failure to play the likes of Coleman and McCarthy more regularly in friendlies.
One positive that hopefully that will emerge from the game are that some of the fringe players play well and give Trap a selection headache for the next phase of qualifying. Coleman's inclusion, while possibly risky, could turn out to be a master stroke if he plays at his best. I envy you lot who get to watch it, for some stupid reason, no one is showing it over here ( which is very surprising), we get I think, Croatia/ Macedonia instead! Great!
Although I realize that we shouldn't take friendlies too seriously in terms of reading much into the results, Long tore a couple of wily defenders the proverbial new one that night. He was excellent, a stand-out. If you play well, you play well in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Can you think of any other stand-out individual performances since Roy left (the second time!) that would rival Longs? (granted you didn't rate it as highly as I did). Richard Dunne away to Russia is a gimme.
That's fair enough, don't want to take away from friendlies in general - just that game in particular was a bit of a weird one.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
They'd be thin enough on the ground right enough, but Roy left a high standard. Possibles: Andrews in Paris '09. Robbie against Italy in Bari, when he dropped deep. Robbie away to Macedonia last year scoring both goals (not an amazing performance but two goals nonetheless). I'm certain Shay's had a few big games in that time, bit of a gimme as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I think it's fair to say Shane could be one of our most influential players - if he was picked.
I can sort of understand the logic of leaving him until late, but it depends on the opposition defence being fatigued or complacent - by no means a certainty.