Still laughing thinking of all the Liverpool and Manchester City fans around Ireland who'll have to put their tickets up on Ebay.
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Still laughing thinking of all the Liverpool and Manchester City fans around Ireland who'll have to put their tickets up on Ebay.
That would be my experience as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Even watching rugby games in the pub, if the team lose most people have forgotten about it half an hour later and are just getting stuck into the pints.
I don't think I've ever seen someone get angry over Ireland losing a game of rugby and I know plenty of people that played the game in school.
To illustrate the point I think the rugby team only got around 10,000 or so at their homecoming in town after the grand slam.
If Ireland did well in a world cup or european championships or Dublin won an All-Ireland, you wouldn't be able to move in town.
Sure Cork had something like 50,000 at their homecoming last year.
I like watching rugby and I want to see the team win, but I don't feel particularly passionate about it.
After the 'Hand of Henry' game in Paris I was fit to be tied.
I'd be the same after losing a big football game in Croke Park.
Rugby just doesn't do it for me.
Probably because I never actually played it.
I love watching rugby but I'd swap ten grand slams for an appearance at Euro 2012 or the next world cup
Just a funny story, this is probably the best place for it.
One of my old school mates who I hang out with over here grew up just off Templeville Road, on the Terenure / Templeogue border, and only 2 miles from Tallaght. He's a big rugby fan, really passionate about it. He won a JCT winners medal, in 1982 I think it was.
He went to see Ireland A vs South Africa's second string at Tallaght Stadium last year. I asked him what he thought of it.
He said "Good. I didn't really know what to expect as I hadn't been there before".
I said "where, Rovers?"
He said "No, Tallaght".
Ollie Campbell admitted he had to ask his parents about the name of the big stadium on the northside and what it was used for. He was a teenager at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
And he used to love playing against england, oh wait that might be ginger mcloughlin actually.
Interesting article in the weekend's Irish Times, that brings up the issue of poor crowds at the Ireland soccer matches, as well as rugby's leap in popularity:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...293646626.html
I don't think it's a fair article, in fact in places I think it's a little bitter, but one thing it does raise & is worth considering, is that the currency of Irish national football is being severely watered down & discredited by the antics of players like Stephen Ireland or Jermaine Pennant. It's a fair point in my view. The FAI should be doing more to fight the negative press that's surely eroding how the national team is viewed both on the inside and out.
It's a poor article. The implication seems to be that rugby has replaced soccer in the hearts of the general public when it's more complicated than that. The FAI is coming down from the highs of the 90s and early 00s and crowds were always going to decrease, especially as they've dithered over ticket pricing. Rugby is probably over its peak too but that came more recently. It's going to decline in popularity too, especially if the Irish team and provinces aren't competing as much.
Reduce the prices and people will go to the games.
Just back from Croke Park where I'm told the attendance was over 35,000 on a truly horrible night (I'm f*ckin soaked).
€13 a pop and plenty of kids & families there.
I realise prices that low might not be feasible for the FAI but there has to be some recognition of the current economic woes.
Will it though, im not so sure, i think they are at at the level now where the provinces will always be there and there abouts, and if they dont produce the players they will just buy them in. Just look at thomond park for the munster leinster game this evening. Its magners league, but they have built up this rivalry now, it was always there, but because of the popularity of rugby and the success of both clubs everyone is talking about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I do really fear for soccer and young lads coming through if this continues which i reckon it will. We drastically need to qualify for a tournament, 2 tournaments in a row would go a long long way to that.
I wouldn't count on rugby going away. I don't know if you watched the Munster / Leinster match, but Thomand Park was hopping; the atmosphere was amazing (speaking as an Ulsterman btw) and really puts the soccer crowds further in the shade. For a sport dismissed in this thread as being supported by women & accountants, Thomand was buzzing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The so-called golden era of Rugby is over, but the crowds are staying put & the IRFU have built solid foundations for the provinces to continue being attractive for investment & competitive on the pitch. Amid the misery of our times, it's good to see homegrown franchises reaching out and becoming world-class. As I said before, the key has been building things up from community level. Local lads done good.
But anyway...
The reason why I posted the Irish Times article because to me it raised an interesting point. When you think of all the articles that have been printed about the Irish soccer team in the last 12 months, they have nearly all been inherently negative. Stephen Ireland, Jermaine Pennant, even the James McCarthy saga have all (in my mind) served to portray the sphere of Irish international soccer with an air of the soap opera. There must be more talk wasted on the latest fecking drama than on the football. Is this some sort of legacy of Saipan - that the Ireland team can't survive as a public entity without a persistent crisis?
I'm not trying to suggest there's one simple reason why fans are staying away, but when you consistently open the newspapers and read of the Ireland team treated as some kind of bloody melodrama, or worse - a budget England team - even a long time fan like myself is slow to care when the team actually gets a chance to run onto the pitch.
Good post Amaccan.
One thing that bothers me however is that the McCarthy thing was totally baseless. I mean the media were just blatantly making **** up. So thats going to be a losing battle if it all depends on negativity coming out of lies. You would think it would sway things in the OTHER direction once proven to be malicious BS as was the case when the Red Rover came into the game last week.
Also is there not room for both Rugby and Football? Fecks sake, Ireland is'nt that small.
If I can watch 4 or 5 different sports at the same time on say a Sunday afternoon, believe me anyone can enjoy two at seperate times..... Why the Stigma of liking both sports? Why do people have to choose? Paul whats your opinion about that?
I do not get the whole rivalry thing. Also DeJa vu this conversation almost happened to an exact "T" on here a few months ago. Don't have time to look it up and quote it but it almost seems like the whole Rugby/Football problem is caused by people wanting to say the same things over and over about the Rugby/Football problem.
Lastly OBVIOUSLY when you start to win consistently or in a fun way people watch. Not directed at anyone on here but Duh. Doesn't matter what sport it is...Winning brings people together. my Dad is the type who is more likely to be the next US President (Never) than ever in his 60 odd years watch a Rugby game and he asked me the other day if I knew IRL beat England. It just...when you win people who would not otherwise notice fill the ****ing seats!! In any sport Lads!
I don't think the 'currency' of the national team should be dictated by bad press associated with said players. The author makes the point about Charlton and the glory days, but the same kind of granny-ruling was going on then too, but we got to major tournaments, so it was fine...Quote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
What a ridiculous thing to say. Trapattoni did appear on the Late Late Show and showed dignity. It's unfair to compare him to Charlton in this light, considering that English is not his mother tongue (not that English was necessarily Charlton's either). Trapattoni is an entertaining, animated character. He's well-respected internationally. I don't blame him for Rugby's recent upsurge in popularity. It's too late for me to rant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Watterson
You've been had. I haven't paid 50 at all since Lansdowne reopened.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Nor should it. Any Ireland fan should want to go to any home game, be it Andorra or Argentina. Winning the game is the point of going, not based on who is trying to beat us.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Women in this country enjoy rugby more imo, as it's much more people-friendly. Few women have the desire or the patience to go to every game and have them and their possessions searched, have their drink bottles confiscated, or the bottle tops removed if bought in the stadium, forced to sit in a segregated area, put up with the choice language from those around them, and/or herded in like cattle after the game. They want to mingle with strangers and fans of the opposition, sit where they like whenever they want, come and go from the stadium when it suits them. Now foreign girls will put up with it in countries where rugby doesn't exist and football is the No. 1 sport, but not as many will here. Rugby gives them greater freedom to do as they please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinxy;
As regards rugger's "popularity", it's a temporary thing. Only a few weeks ago, the Irish egg-chasers were playing badly, losing games, getting a lashing in the press, and struggling to get big crowds for friendlies. Then they beat England, and are apparantly world cup "contenders" again. A poor WC for them, and a qualification for Poland and Ukraine for us, will see the proper order restored again.
As regards our crowds, even in the current climate, there is a market for entertainment in this country, and people are prepared to pay for it if the price is right, be it football, other sports, theatres, concerts, cinemas, nightclubs etc. Yes, the style of football isn't going to make your eyes water, but it's not supposed to. Everything our team does on the pitch now, is geared towards qualifying for Euro 2012. As long as we do that, nobody will care how entertaining it was.
Another reason why it's so important to qualify for the euros is the concentrated exposure the public gets to the team in a tournament setting.
We haven't had that in ages.
I'm actually not that concerned by rugby's rise and the likelihood that it will stay up there, to varying degrees. There's room for the 3 big sports in Ireland to co-exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
Charlie D is bsolutely right when he says the situation is more complicated. It's a very nuanced situation.
The media coverage is certainly a factor. The consistent focus on Stephen Ireland when most regular Irish football team observers had put the whole issue to bed was representative of the press not really focusing on the right things. Most of us here had identified that central midfield was too soft, and that a ball winner rather than a wispish attacking midfielder was what was required. The James McCarthy hysteria was a further example. In The Indo's case I actually think there is a very real attempt to undermine the FAI & the national team.
One big factor that rugby has in its favour is that Irish journalists write about the main team's games because they're played in Ireland. Our international footballers play in England, so the Irish papers buy syndicated English press articles covering the EPL games. You could pick up an Irish paper on Monday and not have a rashers that Shane Long is in the form of his life. There's a feel-good among many of us at the moment because of Long, Walters, Duff, Wilson, Duffy etc.. It'd be nice to think that there's be a quarter page article in the main papers on Monday along these lines, but I'm not holding my breath. Rooney & Giggs will get far more coverage I expect.
Crowds have been up and down before in football, even since the game's profile increased massively under Jack. You have to earn the right to a meaningful game against a big team in the football. The rugby calendar and small number of teams means that there are big rugby games all the time, though hacks like Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times is of the belief that international rugby's stock is diminishing because of the frequency of games between the same teams.
The wealth generated by the big football leagues has pushed the profile and status of international football down. FIFA is quite keen to take on the clubs and they have my full support.
Sport in Europe exhibits a "pyramidal" structure. I think it's fair to say that the top of the pyramid in Irish rugby is in a far healthier state than that of Irish football, but that the bottom of the Irish football pyramid is far healthier than in rugby, and probably even the middle. 6,000 clubs in 96 leagues. Highest number of volunteers. Highest number of participants. Even the point about the pyramid is evidence of the "more complicated" nature of the argument.
Bob Casey had an article in the IT not so long ago talking about the drop in adult playing numbers in rugby.
You have to bear in mind that in general the media coverage of rugby in this country is a massive love-in which feeds the view that rugby is this juggernaut that is constantly gathering momentum.
In reality, I can't remember the last time I saw a kid walking around with a rugby ball under his arm.
I see plenty of kids carrying hurleys and footballs (soccer and gaelic) though around Dublin.
Even the massively hyped schools rugby scene paints a misleading picture.
Huge numbers of those kids stop playing altogether once they leave school.
Did any of the articles on the Munster - Leinster game mention that Leinster returned almost 4,000 tickets from their allocation?
Much more balanced view from Eamon Sweeney
If we qualify for Euro 2012 football will blow rugby out of the news for at least 6 months.
As long as young fellas (& girls) are still playing football and trying to be the next Duffer, Keano or Seamus Coleman then we'll be ok.
The lack of numbers at games is easily fixed if prices are reduced further. The FAI have made a start and I'm pleased that they've stopped bundling tickets. It shows that they are listening to the paying public.
but snapped up in minutes by munster fans. think the returns were due to the 6N just being over, a big match next sat in the aviva and the probable need to stay overnight (and the expense involved) given the ko timeQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
i was interested to hear the €40 ticket cost to the munster v leinster match being described as "very reasonable" on setanta last week yet the FAI get abused for charging the same amount to an international
It's very reasonable for the average rugby fan.
the D4 rugby fan maybe but most munster fans are similar in means to the normal Irish football supporterQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinxy
What do they need an "allocation" for? It's rugger, and no segregation. They just need to buy a ticket and turn up.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Haha! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
They are yeah.
Sure they're all dockers and bin men.
Gimme a break.
The average fan of either sport in any part of the country is reasonably well off. The idea that rugby is the "common man's" sport in Munster is one of the more bizarre and successful aspects of the club's mythology.
do you regularly attend munster matches?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinxy
if not, you are not positioned to comment
based on what evidence exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Based on an absence of evidence. Rugby does have more of a spread of support across class boundaries in Limerick (not in Cork) than it traditionally has in Dublin, but with a few exceptions the people who play it are just as middle class as their Leinster counterparts. Rugby is not as democratic a sport as soccer - it requires an expensive diet and access to the right equipment and like all sports its support base reflects the make-up of its participants.
all to support a team???Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
there is a far more working class support for munster than there is for leinster. its a much more comparible crowd to that that follows the international football team
And schools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
You missed the end of the sentence. Most people don't randomly pick a sport to watch on TV. It's generally one they are involved in or were at a younger age. Contrary to popular opinion, the youth of Limerick tend to play soccer or GAA like the rest of the country. The image of working class kids kicking grubbers under burnt out cars is not reflected in real life.
Exactly. Rugby in Munster is based just as much around schools as it is in Leinster. It just happens that there are more non-fee-paying rugby schools in Limerick than there are in Dublin, Cork or Belfast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinxy
A fact endorsed by my mate who lives there. I think I mentioned it in an earlier post on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
My nephew is growing up across the road from Terenure College and very near Bushy Park. He plays GAA, soccer and rugby, and still finds time for tennis. I think his mates are the same. It's not as if kids play one or the other exclusively these days. Kids have great opportunity because of the work of clubs and volunteers.
Hope he's playing for Rangers? Haven't played there in years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
One of the stutts plays bogball why i never....ive seen it all now!
and your point is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Quite clearly described in his posts.
I think the whole cluxton incident brings home the point i made on the first incarnation of this type thread. GAA is the biggest sport in Ireland hands down. GAA heads don't like what they see as the "pussy" element in soccer, the feighning injury, the rolling around, the soft frees for fair shoulders(that used to be let go) etc etc. Its the neantherdal element of GAA/Aussie Rules/NFL/etc, the basic male huga huga instinct. The crossover from GAA to rugby has ten folded over the last decade as soccer was never seen as their "other" sport really, but rugby is as they can identify more with it. Hence why you see counties like tipperary for example gaining huge interest in the rugby over the last few years, or laois/offaly support and player population increasing also, they would have always had a small element of support but now it has increased dramatically. As long as GAA remains the biggest sport in the country, which it will, soccer has a real and present "threat" from rugby - from a playing point view but also attendance, for example at a certain age young players will have to crossover probably about the time when they would get noticed i.e. around 14/15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The biggest sport i nthe country for over a quarter of a century has been football. repeated surveys have proved that as has tv viewing figures albeit for the national team and not the league of Ireland. GAA is the biggest spectator sport in the country because most Irish people prefer to support Man Utd and Liverpool rather than Cork City or Shamrock Rovers.
Rugby is perceived as cool and marketed well for the "event junkie" but it is nowehere near the playing numbers of football or indeed GAA.
Which surveys and which viewing figures would those be Gspain?
You mean players registered is that right? Viewing figures being for big events like ireland losing out to france or beating holland? Apart from these over the course of 10 or so years, GAA averages far better figures than Soccer. Its a fact gspain no matter how many stats you come up with that the interest in GAA is far bigger than soccer. I prefer soccer btw, but I'm telling it as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain