Jamie O'Hara

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07/03/2010, 4:14 PM
elroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapAPony

But sure all England are likely to do is give him one cap so that he can't play for us and then discard him.

Doubt it, they havent really done in the past so would be surprised if they started now. They have some many options for midfield, realistically O'H isnt an option for a competitive game any time soon, unless perhaps used as a left sided MF.
07/03/2010, 5:11 PM
Irish_Praha

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapAPony

Steve Bruce.

I think he only played for the England B team, maybe that was enough to tie you down back then?
Also he didn't declare for ireland as it would have affected his chances at Man UTD because of the 3 foreginer rule in Europe back then. If that was more important to him than playing for Ireland then we were probably better off without him. He would of had stiff competition with McGrath and Moran at the time aswell.
07/03/2010, 5:37 PM
Colbert Report

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish_Praha

I think he only played for the England B team, maybe that was enough to tie you down back then?
Also he didn't declare for ireland as it would have affected his chances at Man UTD because of the 3 foreginer rule in Europe back then. If that was more important to him than playing for Ireland then we were probably better off without him. He would of had stiff competition with McGrath and Moran at the time aswell.

Kevin Moran and David O'Leary were well past it by the time Bruce was in his prime. We were well covered there though with McGrath, Babb, and Alan Kernaghan!
07/03/2010, 5:59 PM
Irish_Praha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Kevin Moran and David O'Leary were well past it by the time Bruce was in his prime. We were well covered there though with McGrath, Babb, and Alan Kernaghan!

We are going a bit off topic here but O'Leary and Moran are only 2 and 4 years older than Bruce respectivly so when he was at the age where he should be deciding his "nationality" they would have both been still very active. He would have been a handy player to of had in his early 30's though, when the other two were past it as you say.
07/03/2010, 9:24 PM
Bungle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

I say let him wait and see. I don't think we should be so sensitive about him preferring England. He has feelings for both countries, that's indisputable, so let him take his time and decide. It's a big decision. With England he'd have the chance to play in major finals regularly. With us maybe never. But I do think if he opts for us he'll give full committment and will be a big asset.

Spot on. It seems to me that Jamie is very proud of his Irish roots but obviously declaring for us is not the easiest decision as he would have grown up wanting to play for them and lets face it they're a much bigger footballing nation that nearly always graces tournaments. He's a very talented young lad who if he declared for England would probably win a few caps, especially given the troubles at left back/left mid for England and the ageing of Gerrard and Lampard in the centre i.e places up for grabs. Both of my boys were born in London; one of them supports us, the other supports England but is very proud of his Irish roots. My lad who supports England above any other team would give 100% for the green shirt if he declared for us, much like Jamie would I'm sure.
08/03/2010, 8:38 AM
Deckydee

His stock has gone down in my humble opinion. We should not pursue this player.

The difference with all aforementioned players (Townsend, etc) is that they did not choose for England first and then choose for Ireland. They didn’t go on television and say ,well I hope Bobby Robson picks me and if he doesn’t , I will pop over to Jack.

I guess its like this, how would you like it if a nice girl asked your friend out and he said no. Then she came over and asked you out and said the only reason she did it was because your friend turned her down and you were her second choice. In theory she never would have dated you if your friend said yes. It is a silly comparison but that’s exactly what is going on here.

Basically Jamie is saying that:

‘I hope England pick me, if they don’t, I will choose Ireland’
‘I don’t want to play for Ireland really but if Im desperate.........'
‘Ireland are second choice for me’

Do you want someone playing for Ireland who felt we were his second choice? Do you???

I was willing to cut O’Hara some slack but not anymore
08/03/2010, 11:29 AM
Yard of Pace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckydee

His stock has gone down in my humble opinion. We should not pursue this player.

The difference with all aforementioned players (Townsend, etc) is that they did not choose for England first and then choose for Ireland. They didn’t go on television and say ,well I hope Bobby Robson picks me and if he doesn’t , I will pop over to Jack.

I guess its like this, how would you like it if a nice girl asked your friend out and he said no. Then she came over and asked you out and said the only reason she did it was because your friend turned her down and you were her second choice. In theory she never would have dated you if your friend said yes. It is a silly comparison but that’s exactly what is going on here.

Basically Jamie is saying that:

‘I hope England pick me, if they don’t, I will choose Ireland’
‘I don’t want to play for Ireland really but if Im desperate.........'
‘Ireland are second choice for me’

Do you want someone playing for Ireland who felt we were his second choice? Do you???

I was willing to cut O’Hara some slack but not anymore

Eh, we're not a hormonal teenager, we're a football team representing Ireland. O'Hara considers himself English AND Irish. If we were his first choice he'd need his head examined. We've been to one World Cup since 1994. We narrowly beat San Marino and were trashed by Cyprus. We played some of the worst football matches I've ever seen in the last qualifying series. Stop being so precious and accept it. If he didn't feel Irish he wouldn't even consider playing for us. But he does. If he decides to come then we should accept him with open arms. We're not pursuing him now, we invited him, he can make his mind up later.
08/03/2010, 12:24 PM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Just watched an interview with O Hara on Soccer Saturday on Sky. Said hes honoured to be linked with us but is going to wait until after the World Cup to make a decision because alot of the England players are in the later part of their career and he would like to think hes good enough to be considered as part of the new generation. Said he definately wants to play international football and because he has already played for England that would be his first preference.
First time Ive heard him interviewed and comes across as a decent fella

Hmm... More power to him... It's like getting turned down be a bird you don't really fancy in the first place though.

Him Sean Davis, Scott Parker and Joey Barton can compare their cap haul in 20 years.
08/03/2010, 4:01 PM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckydee

I guess its like this, how would you like it if a nice girl asked your friend out and he said no. Then she came over and asked you out and said the only reason she did it was because your friend turned her down and you were her second choice. In theory she never would have dated you if your friend said yes. It is a silly comparison but that’s exactly what is going on here

I wouldn't mind as long as I got the ride. The ride in this case is a metaphor for Euro 2012 Qualification!!
08/03/2010, 4:36 PM
Serb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckydee

I guess its like this, how would you like it if a nice girl asked your friend out and he said no. Then she came over and asked you out and said the only reason she did it was because your friend turned her down and you were her second choice. In theory she never would have dated you if your friend said yes. It is a silly comparison but that’s exactly what is going on here.

I don't think this metaphor is quite accurate. He has been picked by England at underage level, and much like what has happened with James McCarthy, he wants to repay the faith shown to him by making himself available for the senior team. Sounds like he's going to wait and see what midfielders retire after the World Cup (I don't think any of them are old enough to retire really apart from Beckham) and weigh up his chances of getting into the squad. Maybe he thinks there's a chance he might get selected as cover for the vacant left-back spot?

It's not ideal anyway, but I can understand where he's coming from.
08/03/2010, 6:45 PM
Bungle

I loved lads like Townsend and Aldo but if they had been asked to play for England they would've jumped at the chance. I even seem to remember Razor saying that he would've loved to have played for Scotland if asked. The fact is that back then they weren't asked by the equivalent programme (Saint and Greavsie or football focus) about what their intentions of international football were because neither would've have been close to the English team before they declared for us.
Andy went on to being a top class player who would have won many caps for England and Aldo went on to being one of the best goalscorers in Europe but they wouldn't have been close to Robson's radar at the time when they decided to throw in their lot with us.
I respect Jamie's honesty if anything and good luck to him if he declares for them. If he declares for us, then we have one hell of a committed player.
08/03/2010, 10:56 PM
Yard of Pace

Charles N'Zogbia who's been doing great things at left-midfield for Wigan all season is now eligible for England. The lads on Football Weekly were speculating on a potential call-up.
I'd really enjoy the idea of a Frenchman declaring for England, and in turn helping to prompt an Englishman to declare for Ireland! Well, not really, but it'd be an interesting one.
08/03/2010, 11:08 PM
tetsujin1979

Capello has already said he won't call up Almunia, who also qualifies under residency, so he's unlikely to call up N'Zogbia
08/03/2010, 11:11 PM
Charlie Darwin

But Almunia is worse than all of the keepers in and around the England squad.
08/03/2010, 11:15 PM
ArdeeBhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungle

I even seem to remember Razor saying that he would've loved to have played for Scotland if asked. The fact is that back then they weren't asked by the equivalent programme (Saint and Greavsie or football focus) about what their intentions of international football were because neither would've have been close to the English team before they declared for us.

Know 3 lads who were with him at school in North London, who said he always wanted to play for Ireland when he pitched up at their place as a 12 year old. They claim the sometimes overt hostility towards people of Irish roots at the time was a contributory factor. And he was far from the best player in the school....
Met Ray'o last year, who laughed when I asked that question. Though to be fair we're talking nearly 40 years ago!
08/03/2010, 11:18 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

But Almunia is worse than all of the keepers in and around the England squad.

James is 39, and will probably retire soon, Green is injury prone, and Joe Hart doesn't have the experience yet.
They could do worse than Almunia.
09/03/2010, 3:02 AM
Charlie Darwin

Green's been injured less than Almunia over the past couple of years. They could do worse than Almunia, but I don't think he's as good an option as Robinson, Green, Hart or even Foster, who's average enough too. Fair enough, he's better than Carson, but so is everyone else.
09/03/2010, 9:20 AM
Yard of Pace

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Capello has already said he won't call up Almunia, who also qualifies under residency, so he's unlikely to call up N'Zogbia

Is Capello staying on after the World Cup? I'd fancy the inevitable England World Cup media/WAG circus to make him decide being England manager isn't all that much fun.

(Sorry, didn't wish to turn this thread into a discussion about England!)
09/03/2010, 11:00 AM
Bungle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Know 3 lads who were with him at school in North London, who said he always wanted to play for Ireland when he pitched up at their place as a 12 year old. They claim the sometimes overt hostility towards people of Irish roots at the time was a contributory factor. And he was far from the best player in the school....
Met Ray'o last year, who laughed when I asked that question. Though to be fair we're talking nearly 40 years ago!

Andy's gone up in my estimation even further if that's true! What an absolute legend:cool:
09/03/2010, 3:46 PM
paul_oshea

is he not on about ray houghton there bungle?!
10/03/2010, 10:50 AM
Deckydee

Just found this - Im as fast as the RTE website somtimes :o

http://www.tribune.ie/sport/article/...-new-recruits/

Interesting:

Trapattoni has set a deadline for the Tottenham player
10/03/2010, 11:10 AM
geysir

"Trapattoni has set a deadline for the Tottenham player"

Makes total sense imo but there is nothing in the article to to even remotely support the notion that Trap has set a deadline.
And certainly if there is a deadline, it has not been imparted to OHara
10/03/2010, 11:57 AM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

"Trapattoni has set a deadline for the Tottenham player"

Makes total sense imo but there is nothing in the article to to even remotely support the notion that Trap has set a deadline.
And certainly if there is a deadline, it has not been imparted to OHara

True. Trapp has laid it all out for him in so many words though.

He tries to keep his options open and plays the humble card citing his honour of represent either, then totally negates it by his other comments re: waiting til after the world cup and thinking he's good enouigh based on current form. Not the brightest bulb in the box really. The less said easiest mended should be the stance of somone in his situation, even if it is what he truly feels.
10/03/2010, 12:01 PM
Deckydee

Message to Mod: - Could we start a poll on this?
10/03/2010, 1:53 PM
ArdeeBhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungle

Andy's gone up in my estimation even further if that's true! What an absolute legend:cool:

Houghton was who I meant. Another mate played against Townsend in the Cubs and said he was sh*t-hot. Scored 8 of his teams 11 goals.
11/03/2010, 8:08 PM
Bungle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Houghton was who I meant. Another mate played against Townsend in the Cubs and said he was sh*t-hot. Scored 8 of his teams 11 goals.

Alright sorry about that!well razor has gone up in my estimation so:cool:
12/03/2010, 1:32 PM
Adrock

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

Eh, we're not a hormonal teenager, we're a football team representing Ireland. O'Hara considers himself English AND Irish. If we were his first choice he'd need his head examined. We've been to one World Cup since 1994. We narrowly beat San Marino and were trashed by Cyprus. We played some of the worst football matches I've ever seen in the last qualifying series. Stop being so precious and accept it. If he didn't feel Irish he wouldn't even consider playing for us. But he does. If he decides to come then we should accept him with open arms. We're not pursuing him now, we invited him, he can make his mind up later.

How exactly can you 'feel :clover:Irish' if you've never lived here? I would assume he fancies playing for England because he happens to be English. He also may give consideration to playing for us as a second choice as we are his only alternative option that I am aware of for playing international football which any decent player aims to do. Its nothing to do with sentimental yearnings for the land of your ancestors - do you really think that's how footballers feel?
O'Hara just happens to be in that grey area of not being quite good enough to be sure of making the England squad but too good for immediately settling for option B. This explains the stance he is taking which is perfectly reasonable. Personally I think its a wonder we have become a competative international team recently for the first time probably ever, whilst only minimaly exploiting the granny rule and I think it would be quite sad to be going back up that alley again. We've proved we don't need to do it as so many folks assume so lets gain a bit more respect by qualifying for a tournament with an Irish team, not an English team please.
12/03/2010, 2:42 PM
third policeman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrock

How exactly can you 'feel :clover:Irish' if you've never lived here? . We've proved we don't need to do it as so many folks assume so lets gain a bit more respect by qualifying for a tournament with an Irish team, not an English team please.

So what are you saying here? We tell the likes of Kevin Kilbane, we dont want you because you are English.
12/03/2010, 2:48 PM
Yard of Pace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrock

How exactly can you 'feel :clover:Irish' if you've never lived here?

Apologies, I stopped reading after this line.
12/03/2010, 5:33 PM
Deckydee

Found this today - http://www.dangerhere.com/something-...hoice-ireland/
12/03/2010, 5:40 PM
Adrock

Quote:

Originally Posted by third policeman

So what are you saying here? We tell the likes of Kevin Kilbane, we dont want you because you are English.

Don't have a problem with an occasional individual like Kilbane who has Irish parents, grown up with an ambition to play for Ireland , as the story goes, being picked . If you've grown up representing England and made clear that's your country of choice or your only qualification is through one of yer grandpops then as a matter of national pride we shouldn't be looking to pick them.
There are very few players - only Finnan springs to mind - who can genuinely claim to be both Irish and English.
A squad with a couple of English born players with Irish parentage who have never chosen to represent England at any level is still an Irish squad. A squad with an actual majority of players who qualify on on the granny rule as it once was is just a national embarassment and we shouldn't be looking to return to them days. Its like cheating on an exam where you've copied your neighbours work; the results might look good next to your name but it'd feel a whole lot better if you'd got the marks using your own abilities.
12/03/2010, 6:29 PM
Yard of Pace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckydee

Found this today - http://www.dangerhere.com/something-...hoice-ireland/

Quote:

Do fans really care what the previous nationality of the players who score the goals is as long as qualify?

O'Hara's already said "I'm English AND Irish" so for me it's a non-issue.
13/03/2010, 12:02 AM
Colbert Report

I want Ireland to qualify for major tournaments as much as anyone but we should be doing it with players that want to play for us. I was born in Canada to Irish parents but I'd give my left ball to play a minute on the pitch for Ireland as I grew up there watching the great team of the early/mid nineties. I have no problem with players from other countries playing for us, but I do have a problem with selecting a guy who clearly would rather play for England. See you later Jamie O'Hara, good luck to you, no hard feelings but frankly I'd rather not have you in the team.
15/03/2010, 7:37 AM
rebelmusic

I think to be fair you're being a bit harsh. Too many people here would still accept back stephan ireland but would complain about o'hara who at least has uttered the words "i'm irish" in some form or another.

If he truly feels both english and irish, then he would be insane to have ireland as his first choice, be reasonable folks
15/03/2010, 9:08 AM
greendeiseboy

There are very few players - only Finnan springs to mind - who can genuinely claim to be both Irish and English.

Am I missing something here - Steve Finnan was born in Limerick!!
15/03/2010, 1:33 PM
Charlie Darwin

He grew up in England.
15/03/2010, 2:05 PM
greendeiseboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

He grew up in England.

Right, bear with me on this one - so the fact that he was born here, plays for us - just happened to be brought up there - makes him part English - Nah, dont get it
15/03/2010, 3:52 PM
Adrock

Quote:

Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Right, bear with me on this one - so the fact that he was born here, plays for us - just happened to be brought up there - makes him part English - Nah, dont get it

Nationality isn't just a racial issue. Where you 'happen to be brought up' is generally recognised as quite a significant criteria - perhaps the most important - in defining your national identity. Hence Patrick Viera being French and Senegalese, Ibrahimovic Swedish and Bosnian , Finnan Irish and English .....etc
15/03/2010, 4:05 PM
dr_peepee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

O'Hara's already said "I'm English AND Irish" so for me it's a non-issue.

I'd accept the ""I'm English AND Irish" thing from a youngfella torn between one or the other. Perfectly understandable

He's more or less said "I'll be Irish if the English don't want me" though. That's the difference. Think it, but have enough respect/sense not to say it, at the very least.
15/03/2010, 4:47 PM
Charlie Darwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Right, bear with me on this one - so the fact that he was born here, plays for us - just happened to be brought up there - makes him part English - Nah, dont get it

Kind of like that great English international Paul McGrath. I have no idea whether Finnan self-identifies as English, but he surely feels some affinity for the place.

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