6 points from two games with Bulgaria drawing with Italy will be enough to top the group as well though:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
6 points from two games with Bulgaria drawing with Italy will be enough to top the group as well though:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
exactly - draw the best result.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Fair enough, but if Bulgaria beat Italy and we know that all we really have do is the same, and if we don't beat Italy at home then maybe Trappatoni's selection is just not good enough for WC 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
F(uk this scraping through competitions
A Bulgaria win puts us under massive pressure against Italy. If both us and Bulgaria get 20 points I see it as very likely their GD would be better than ours, so even a draw against Italy would not be a good result in Croker.
An Italy win over Bulgaria takes away our chance of winning the group but gives us bail out option of second place.
So basically you're saying that you'd prefer us to be in a position where failure to beat Italy will result in elimination? sorry but this makes no sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
Souness did the other night, I can see both sides, I can see what he brings but he also frustrates me greatly, in the flesh and on tv.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
There are quite a few midfielders in the world that manage to defend and pass in the same match.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I don't watch enough English football to be able to say whether Andrews or Whelan are individually underperforming, but as a unit they aren't doing what a midfield should do and neither of them can grasp the game by the neck. You say its tactics, but even Trapp conceded in the post match interview that the passing wasn't what it should be.
I clearly referred to the second half when I mentioned Whelan and AndrewsQuote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
so I did not get your reference to them nullifying our attack play in a second half context.
Ireland dominated the second half. Andrews and Whelan nullified most of the attacking threat coming through CM.
Trap said he blasted the team at ht also he was referring to the first half play when he mentioned anxiety, fear and passing ability.
'tis a game of 2 halves.
Everyone knew this was going to be tight. We got the result in the end. Not making excuses but its a very difficult place to go to. Poor crowd, very humid conditions, etc... The world champions also recently scrapped a 2-1 win in Cyprus aswell so I am delighted with the result and performance.
Whelan and Andrews were equally poor in both halves IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Not sure we had a better combination available for selection, but they are the reason we are forced to play it long.
I don't have much time for Souness generally but on Saturday night I don't think he questioned Robbie's effort. What he did say was that Robbie should try to hold onto the ball rather than trying to flick it on (the hollywood stuff he called it). I can understand that opinion but it certainly didn't reflect on Robbie's effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by razor
Trap would argue that playing it safe and long in the 2nd half was a successful tactic in that game, against that team. The result proves the method. A player like Andy Reid would likely have been swallowed up by the constant closing down. I doubt if any other team in the last 5 years visiting Cyprus enjoyed such dominance in the 2nd half.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
According to the game plan, Whelan and Andrews did their job well in the second half.
About the only I threw a curse against Whelan was when he wasted a ball in injury time, giving them one more fling.
That's my recollection too. No criticism of effort at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
He made a very good interception in injury time, making a left footed volleyed clearance into touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I watched the match on the Setanta pay-per-view and the picture quality was actually pretty good. The benefit of this system is I've been able to watch the game several times now.
I cannot get over how much time on the ball the Cypriots had. Chirilambidas was able to receive the ball hold it and turn 45 degrees in either direction and decide to where he wanted to spray a pass. Whelan and Andrews were unable to keep the ball for more than a split second before either passing sideways or ballooning the ball forward through the air.
I was terribly alarmed at this when watching the live stream, but watching it again, I don't think we will be that bad in the next fixtures. The Cypriots clearly knew the limitations of the pitch on which they were playing; I think the heavily sanded pitch with its divots made passing the ball with any real pace harder for us than it did for them. As a consequence of our slower passes the Cypriot midfielders had more time to close down our players particularly Whelan and Andrews who do not have the first touch of some of the classy midfielders who fulfill the same role in the world's top sides.
Our run-in for this group is at home. Therefore (although you never know with Croker) the pitch should only be a positive factor. I missed the Montenegro game entirely and I have not seen them play since it was Serbia and Montenegro so I cannot comment on their style, but the Italian team does not close down as much as Cyprus.
Italy's performance in Georgia was poor enough and I think Trapattoni will be prepared better to face Italy than any other sides.
The other thing is a return of Steven Reid and Stephen Finnan could genuinely change our side for the better. I am not holding my breath on both of them being available, but either one offers a new dimension to the team.
I am on the record on this site as not being Finnan's biggest fan, but my admiration for him even at 33 years of age has grown in his absence. Finnan is probably the best crosser of the ball this team has available. If our central midfielders are told to play conservatively a full back with great defensive pedigree, a classy touch and a good cross could be the difference in a tight game.
Steven Reid's contribution has been outlined enough times. He has a Rolls-Royce engine, determination, bite and he grabs games by the b@lls.
Dare to dream the futures green..
Souness was right and he wasn't commenting on effort just on decision making. And he was right. Not just holding the ball up, but on a couple of occasions Robbie could have ran more with the ball instead of lookng for incisive passes when the target was surrounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
Souness nailed it also when looking at John O’Shea’s performance i.e. when playing with Man U, he’s got Scholes or Carrick etc. showing for the ball in midfield, whereas Ireland don’t have anyone showing to take the ball and move it forward so O’Shea hoofs the ball up the pitch. Well, we do have someone who would show and move the ball forward…Andy Reid.
Someone else made the point that an attacking midfielder would be a danger Trappatoni wants to avoid, perhaps he was right, but I don’t think so. Anyway, at this stage it really is too late to find out.
I still refuse to believe these long balls weren't down to tactics. The midfielders push up when the defenders have the ball because that's what they're told to do. We've seen a completely different side to Whelan and Andrews in Italy. The vast majority of passes in that game were between Dunne, O'Shea, Whelan and Andrews while McShane didn't misplace a single pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
Whatever Trap says it's tactics pure and simple.
Agree with this but my fear is that John O'Shea was hoofing the ball up the pitch because he was told to rather than because the midfield didn't want it. I suspect this would still be the case if Andy Reid was on the pitch. In Jack's time we had Ronnie Whelan and Liam Brady who would happily have taken the ball off the full-backs or the centre-halves but they were told to hit it into the channels. Mark Lawrenson had a good piece in today's paper explaining how the approach then was more effective than the long-balls we saw on Saturday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
I agree Robbie's decision making isn't always the best but my point was that his effort cannot be questioned.
Did anybody notice the complete absence of Hamilton's curse?
The poor man's absolute predictive assuredness has taken a hammering over recent years and reduced him to the level of a mere mortal fan during a game, living under the fear that anything bad can happen anytime.
As soon as play restarted after the goal I shouted at the telly for George to say nothing!Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I think George was actually bringing Beglin's euphoria down a peg or two after we scored.
we met him out in sofia they were on the table beside us drinking and we got the usual pictures and stuff, but anyway we were blaming him for saying the usual and he said statistically 95% of irelands defeats have been down to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
He realised that a few years ago he said and has stopped it. Was awful funny him telling us because he almost believed it himself :D
Nipped out of the Electric Picnic to watch the match in a boozer in Stradbally so had to miss Brian Wilson to see it. Delighted with the result but we were poor on the night, no two ways about it, nearly wished I'd stayed in the gig!
Two points, if we're going to persist in playing long balls then we really need a tall striker up front who can win and hold onto the ball to get the midfield involved, otherwise we just concede possession as we did on Saturday. Now, I'm not suggesting for a second that Folan is a better player then Dole or Keane but the tactics on Saturday don't suit their game.
Secondly, if we're going to play the percentages and look for throw in etc in the final third then Rory Delap should be at least in the squad, he's a decent player and could definitely be useful based on teh tactics I saw on Sat.
A draw on Wednesday would be so good and set us up for a cracking finale, fingers crossed!!
Is that your new nickname for Liam Miller?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Well that gave me a good laugh :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Touche!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Doyle was terrific at it though, first half at least. There must have been 3 defenders on him whenever he had the ball and he always seemed to manage to get it to an Irish player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Lads, does anyone know where there's any highlights of the Cyprus game online? Haven't been able to find anything other then this which is pretty useless: http://www.footytube.com/video/cyprus-1-ireland-2-21917
Cheers
We're not Holland, or Spain, or England. We don't have the resources, nor the strength in the rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Of course, it's a long drawn out process, of course it won't be pretty, but we're competitive. 2 years ago, we were out of contention for second with 3 games to go, which should put it into perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loscherland
http://www.alivetorrents.com/torrent...dtvxvid-tiggzz
Go to the above site, you have to sign up on the site mentioned there
http://www.thebox.bz/signup.php
I went there and signed up and got the torrent from there, then you can
choose you own highlights!
Was out of town and just watched the game there.
Very stressful stuff watching that, but I'm glad we got the job done (THANK YOU ROBBIE).
My analysis:
Given-6- Not much to do, not at fault for the goal.
O'Shea-6- Poor distribution, but lacked support from midfield.
Dunne-6-Probably his worst game this campaign. Looked very nervous near the end when he conceded a silly free kick in a dangerous position.
St. Ledger-6- Didn't look as confident as usual, which was understandable given the magnitude of the game and his lack of experience.
Kilbane-5- Not a full-back, let's try someone else there, ANYONE. Love the man, but we need to explore other options more thoroughly.
Duff-7-Won free kicks and eased pressure, and hit a fantastic cross for the winner.
Whelan-6-Great volley didn't make up for losing the midfield battle.
Andrews-6-I feel he can offer more than he did this match.
Hunt-6-Full of energy, but careless in possession.
Keane-7- Had very little to work with, but scored a very important goal with his only clear cut chance in the match. He really has put goals away at crucial points in this campaign.
Doyle-7-Scored a very important goal with an instinctive, clinical finish, and worked hard all match.
Subs:
McGeady-7- Nearly managed to break past the Cyprus fullback on a counter-attack, but just couldn't. Did well when he came on to push Cyprus back a little bit and free up space for the midfield to push forward.
Folan-7- Made his presence known and won every ball sent his way in the air. If we're going to play long-ball, we may as well start him instead of Doyle.
It's easy for anybody to see that we're having trouble at left-full, and central-midfield. You could even say that right-full is a problem as O'Shea doesn't really offer enough on the ball for a modern full-back (he really is a centre-half, despite the fact that he plays mostly as a right-full for club and country).
I always think of the full-backs as very important figures in terms of keeping possession and dictating play. When you've got one or two very good fullbacks it can really improve your ability to control a game. As it stands, we have a left-winger and a centre-half in our fullback slots, neither of whom can pick out a pass.
This isn't to excuse the central midfielders from showing for the ball, but is it possible that Whelan and Andrews show for the ball, but Kilbane and O'Shea are simply incapable (or scared) to make a pass into that area of the pitch?
Kilbane, for all his heart and passion, has never been a composed player in possession, and O'Shea is usually the worst technical player Man United sends out each match (great athlete and a good tackler, but a very average passer).
When you have four players in Whelan, Andrews, Kilbane, and O'Shea who aren't able, or willing, to try and keep the ball on the deck and play it amongst themselves, long-ball is inevitable.
I'm not against long-ball as a tactic per-se (not my first choice), but if we are going down that road, there's no point in playing two small strikers in Keane and Doyle.
Anybody got any pictures from the game? Or what was the Craic like in the towns?
I'm surprised people say Doyle isn't suited to the long ball. I think he wins more than his fair share of high balls and is class at holding the ball up.
I think Doyle is really strong in the air, but Folan offers a different outlet. Doyle wins flick-ons for people to run onto, Folan gets in between the CBs and knocks the ball back.
In either case it's futile as there's nobody coming through to collect the knock downs. It's just a recipe for losing possession.
Souness on explaining why he'd have given the MOTM to Doyler over Robbie did sayQuote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
Quote:
"Doyle was more industrious... put his body on the line more than Robbie did tonight."
"Robbies got great ability, I don't think he uses it all the time.
I think he could give so much more to the cause"
Doyle was definitely motm for me. He was at the top of his game imo unlike most of the rest.
Though out of the front 2, we were fortunate the manager decided to take Doyle off and not Keane.
trap wouldnt take keano off and rightly so. doyle had a good game but robbie is always likely to get a goal anytime given the chance. doyle isnt as prolific. id never take robbie off anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
bumping thread