Roy Keane

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20/05/2009, 10:28 AM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

What everyone seems to forget is that we only needed a draw for that game to more or less ensure we qualified instead of the Dutch from what I remember so its a stretch to say we were blessed. The Dutch never looked like they were going to win that game at any stage though granted they had a few chances to grab an equaliser.

I'd have to suggest you were at a different game to everyone else that day if that's your honest opinion.

They had more chances to go in front then to grab an equaliser, they lost their shape once they went one behind.
20/05/2009, 10:31 AM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

I'd have to suggest you were at a different game to everyone else that day if that's your honest opinion.

They had more chances to go in front then to grab an equaliser, they lost their shape once they went one behind.

They should have had a clear penalty near the end when Dunne fouled Van Nistelrooy. Kluivert and Overmars had a couple of chances in the first half. Nothing too dangerous from my recollection.
20/05/2009, 10:32 AM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

I'd have to suggest you were at a different game to everyone else that day if that's your honest opinion.

They had more chances to go in front then to grab an equaliser, they lost their shape once they went one behind.

we had other chances too and shay only had to make one or two decent saves. they created a few chances ok but their finishing was poor
20/05/2009, 10:35 AM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

What everyone seems to forget is that we only needed a draw for that game to more or less ensure we qualified instead of the Dutch from what I remember so its a stretch to say we were blessed. The Dutch never looked like they were going to win that game at any stage though granted they had a few chances to grab an equaliser.

The final table (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA_-_Group_2) ) looked like this

Code:

Rank Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 Portugal 10 7 3 0 33 7 26 24 2 Ireland 10 7 3 0 23 5 18 24 3 Netherlands 10 6 2 2 30 9 21 20 4 Estonia 10 2 2 6 10 26 -16 8 5 Cyprus 10 2 2 6 13 31 -18 8 6 Andorra 10 0 0 10 5 36 -31 0

If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.
If the Dutch had won, then we would have finished third, because we would have been level with the Dutch following the last games, but lost out in the head to head record

actually kudos to whoever added in the appearance stats for the four teams on that page, lot of work went into that
20/05/2009, 10:54 AM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

They should have had a clear penalty near the end when Dunne fouled Van Nistelrooy. Kluivert and Overmars had a couple of chances in the first half. Nothing too dangerous from my recollection.

That penalty shout was about 5 minutes before we scored. They had 3 great chances in the first 15 minutes and another 3 in the first 10 minutes of the second half.
20/05/2009, 11:07 AM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.

if it had ended in a draw we would have finished on 22 pts and the dutch on 21pts. we went into that game knowing a pt would be enough (assuming cyprus were beaten by us a few weeks later)
20/05/2009, 11:17 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The final table (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA_-_Group_2) ) looked like this

Code:

Rank Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 Portugal 10 7 3 0 33 7 26 24 2 Ireland 10 7 3 0 23 5 18 24 3 Netherlands 10 6 2 2 30 9 21 20 4 Estonia 10 2 2 6 10 26 -16 8 5 Cyprus 10 2 2 6 13 31 -18 8 6 Andorra 10 0 0 10 5 36 -31 0

If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.
If the Dutch had won, then we would have finished third, because we would have been level with the Dutch following the last games, but lost out in the head to head record

actually kudos to whoever added in the appearance stats for the four teams on that page, lot of work went into that

Going along with that, surely finishing, they would have been 21 points and we would have been 22, or heading into the last games 18 and 19 respectively?!
20/05/2009, 12:47 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

if it had ended in a draw we would have finished on 22 pts and the dutch on 21pts. we went into that game knowing a pt would be enough (assuming cyprus were beaten by us a few weeks later)

True. It was still a great win.
20/05/2009, 12:48 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbyrne

if it had ended in a draw we would have finished on 22 pts and the dutch on 21pts. we went into that game knowing a pt would be enough (assuming cyprus were beaten by us a few weeks later)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Going along with that, surely finishing, they would have been 21 points and we would have been 22, or heading into the last games 18 and 19 respectively?!

yeah, so if the Dutch drew against Andorra, a draw would have done against Cyprus, and if they beat Andorra, we would have had to beat Cyprus.

BTW, this all has nothing to do with Roy Keane being appointed Ipswich manager, so feel free to delete posts, or lock or whatever
20/05/2009, 12:53 PM
jbyrne

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

BTW, this all has nothing to do with Roy Keane being appointed Ipswich manager

really? :rolleyes:
20/05/2009, 1:44 PM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

The large guy in the blue shirt at the front had no doubts it was on the way in.

I couldn't get the song "My mamma always told me there'd be days like this" out of my head for weeks after this game. Whenever I hear it, I immediately recall that game.

Up there with Mackay's goal against Bulgaria, Houghton's double against England and Italy and Robbie's against Germany.

pity Mcateer turned out to be such a horrible, spiteful little b astard
20/05/2009, 2:00 PM
Stuttgart88

In what way?

OwlsFan, I still can't get Alphaville's "Big in Japan" out of my head when thinking about that game. About the only decent & appropriate thing to ever come out of the PA system at a home international.
20/05/2009, 2:25 PM
geysir

No memories of 'crying in the streets in the rain' songs?
20/05/2009, 3:09 PM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

pity Mcateer turned out to be such a horrible, spiteful little b astard

When did that happen? I must've missed that meeting......

Nothing to do with him daring to outsmart RK on the verbals front surely??
20/05/2009, 3:21 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

pity Mcateer turned out to be such a horrible, spiteful little b astard

never got that impression of Macca, quite the opposite in fact
20/05/2009, 4:27 PM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The final table (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA_-_Group_2) ) looked like this

Code:

Rank Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts 1 Portugal 10 7 3 0 33 7 26 24 2 Ireland 10 7 3 0 23 5 18 24 3 Netherlands 10 6 2 2 30 9 21 20 4 Estonia 10 2 2 6 10 26 -16 8 5 Cyprus 10 2 2 6 13 31 -18 8 6 Andorra 10 0 0 10 5 36 -31 0

If the home game against Holland had finished level, then we would have had to equal their result against Andorra at home to Cyprus in the final game to be sure of second spot.
If the Dutch had won, then we would have finished third, because we would have been level with the Dutch following the last games, but lost out in the head to head record

To only concede 5 goals in 10 games was amazing but the sweetest of all was to beat and finish ahead of the Dutch and knock them out. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Remember Gelsenkirchen !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

pity Mcateer turned out to be such a horrible, spiteful little b astard

On what basis do you say that?
20/05/2009, 4:30 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

No memories of 'crying in the streets in the rain' songs?

No comprende senor
20/05/2009, 6:33 PM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

They should have had a clear penalty near the end when Dunne fouled Van Nistelrooy. Kluivert and Overmars had a couple of chances in the first half. Nothing too dangerous from my recollection.

thats shocking really how u could totally call that game wrong:eek:

holland were all over us, we were dead lucky
20/05/2009, 7:19 PM
Stuttgart88

It was Given's foul on Van Nistelrooy, although all Given really did was stand his ground while Van N just ran straight through him. 9 times out of 10 though it'd have been a peno and a straight red.

For all the talk of Keane's early tackle we really should have been behind after only a few minutes, a Kelly error letting in Kluivert for a 1-on-1 that he comfortably beat Given with only for the ball to roll slowly past the post.

Late on Van N headed the ball narrowly past the post with Given rooted to the spot.

That's about all I can remember of the game, apart from McAteer's goal and Kelly having a general nightmare and his red card. Hasselbaink oplaying wide right at the end too - I think Van Gaal lost the plot a bit, though I think the gods favoured us for once. That whole campaign, at least after Amsterdam, was one where we got a bit more than we deserved I think, even the play off draw was kind.
20/05/2009, 8:29 PM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

No comprende senor

People associate a song with the good times, some associate a song with the bad times, some do both.

The Dutch did a bit of talking before that game didn't they?
Was that the one where one of the Dutch players talked about riling Keane up?
20/05/2009, 9:04 PM
paul_oshea

which player?
21/05/2009, 9:35 AM
DeLorean

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It was Given's foul on Van Nistelrooy, although all Given really did was stand his ground while Van N just ran straight through him. 9 times out of 10 though it'd have been a peno and a straight red.

For all the talk of Keane's early tackle we really should have been behind after only a few minutes, a Kelly error letting in Kluivert for a 1-on-1 that he comfortably beat Given with only for the ball to roll slowly past the post.

Late on Van N headed the ball narrowly past the post with Given rooted to the spot.

That's about all I can remember of the game, apart from McAteer's goal and Kelly having a general nightmare and his red card. Hasselbaink oplaying wide right at the end too - I think Van Gaal lost the plot a bit, though I think the gods favoured us for once. That whole campaign, at least after Amsterdam, was one where we got a bit more than we deserved I think, even the play off draw was kind.

Zenden had the best chance I thought early on. He was through with Given well out of his goal and the ball was bouncing lovely to just lift it over him but he didn't get anywhere near enough elevation on it. He was a shocking player I always thought anyway.
21/05/2009, 9:40 AM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennocelt

thats shocking really how u could totally call that game wrong:eek:

holland were all over us, we were dead lucky

Don't remember it like that. Can't remember the Dutch forcing Given into making what I would consider was a tough save. Once we scored I don't remember ever thinking they were going to come back and win.

If you want to compare it to a performance where we were dead lucky as you call it then compare it to England in Stuttgart and how many times Bonner saved us.

Here's the match report anyway:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/archive...land_full.html
21/05/2009, 10:06 AM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

Don't remember it like that. Can't remember the Dutch forcing Given into making what I would consider was a tough save. Once we scored I don't remember ever thinking they were going to come back and win.

If you want to compare it to a performance where we were dead lucky as you call it then compare it to England in Stuttgart and how many times Bonner saved us.

Here's the match report anyway:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/archive...land_full.html

YI thats cos given didnt get anywhere near any of their attempts, i distinctly remember 3 where he was well beaten.
21/05/2009, 10:10 AM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

Don't remember it like that. Can't remember the Dutch forcing Given into making what I would consider was a tough save. Once we scored I don't remember ever thinking they were going to come back and win.

If you want to compare it to a performance where we were dead lucky as you call it then compare it to England in Stuttgart and how many times Bonner saved us.

Here's the match report anyway:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/archive...land_full.html

Did you read that report? Pretty much says we were well under the cosh which kind of undermines your argument. :confused:
21/05/2009, 10:41 AM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Did you read that report? Pretty much says we were well under the cosh which kind of undermines your argument. :confused:

Never said it didn't I just didn't consider us blessed as such especially as we only needed to draw that game. It was up to the Dutch to come at us all guns blazing.

I would consider us blessed against England in 88 who looked a much better team than us on that particular day though they quickly lost their confidence for the rest of their matches after their loss.
21/05/2009, 1:26 PM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

Don't remember it like that. Can't remember the Dutch forcing Given into making what I would consider was a tough save. Once we scored I don't remember ever thinking they were going to come back and win.

]

either you are very young, or are too old and the memory is going
or dare i say it havent a clue about football:eek:

I remember that game very well, the pure tension of it all, the stress of it and the very likely possibilty that any chance the Dutch went forward they were likey to score
I will never forget that tenison of that game - it sure wasnt a walk in the a park for us
21/05/2009, 1:39 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennocelt

or dare i say it havent a clue about football:eek:

I'd say it's a safe bet I have far more of a clue than yourself so I must be too old or maybe I was too drunk.
21/05/2009, 2:38 PM
paul_oshea

Thats a battle I was waiting to see for a while :D
21/05/2009, 3:30 PM
Den Perry

Keane..

rumour has it that Roy is interested in signing Mcshane...good God almighty
21/05/2009, 3:43 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

rumour has it that Roy is interested in signing Mcshane...good God almighty

The future of Ireland's central defence together at Ipswich - McShane and Bruce.
21/05/2009, 3:57 PM
geysir

Won't Ipswich be mentioned in connection with every Irish player available?
At least McShane is a proven performer at championship level

Roy is not the smartest when it comes to signings, any rumours that he wants Liam Miller?
21/05/2009, 4:39 PM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

No memories of 'crying in the streets in the rain' songs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

No comprende senor

Butch Moore - caused huge excitement when Ireland came 3rd or 4th in its first attempt in the Eurovision with "Walking the Streets in the Rain".
21/05/2009, 5:14 PM
geysir

That's it,
'nobody knows I am crying, because I�m walking in the streets in the rain'
21/05/2009, 5:33 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Zenden was a shocking player I always thought anyway.

Agreed, only ever got anywhere because he was Dutch I think, though what the Dutch themselves saw in him I'll never know.
21/05/2009, 5:34 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

'nobody knows I am crying, because I�m walking in the streets in the rain'

He can't be that Butch if he cries.
21/05/2009, 5:44 PM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

I'd say it's a safe bet I have far more of a clue than yourself so I must be too old or maybe I was too drunk.

the only prob with that is you seem to be the only one here with that view of the dutch game?
or maybe stay of the babysham:p
22/05/2009, 4:55 PM
Mr A

Roy Keane is a great man.

I've always said that.
24/05/2009, 3:21 PM
Colbert Report

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

rumour has it that Roy is interested in signing Mcshane...good God almighty

I think that McShane is a donkey but he'd make a decent Championship centre back.
25/05/2009, 10:36 AM
Mr A

Interesting comments from Niall Quinn yesterday when talking about Ricky Sbragia. Something along the lines of:

'Ricky stood up and was a man when other people walked away from the club'.

I hope he's not disparaging Roy there. As I said before, he's a great man.

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