Oh Tricky.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
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Oh Tricky.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Kevin Moron?
Glenn Whelan is a bang average midfield stopper and nothing more.
Is it ok that i say that on this forum?
Don't flatter yourself Crumbo, you might be the Donald Trump of the ladies thread, but Yard Of Pace dictates the controversy levels around here pal.
Is what I say about Whelan controversial? I feel like the fella who was trying to convince people the world isn't flat and you won't fall off the edge if you ever reached it......a bit like a Glenn Whelan pass sailing aimlessly over the sideline for an opposition throw.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
The points in your case against Whelan are not controversial but have been over-egged and round here folks like their eggs sunny side up when the occasion calls for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
Stoke currently 1-0, Arnautovic 45', in the league cup semi final v Liverpool.
Whelan and Walther playing.
Also Whelan is the Stoke captain, which says something, ie he is captain. :p
Whelan's been rock solid again. There was one instance in the second half where he moved across expecting Firmino to cut in but he shot to the near post, but other than that done everything right.
If Glenn was a 24 y/o uncapped or fringe player what would people here be saying about him?
At 24 Glenn was a pup, he's a late bloomer. Glenn is doing very well, he is assured and effective in most everything he is involved with. In this game Liverpool are a team stripped of most everything that one use to associate with Liverpool, emasculated might be an apt description.
Scored his penalty in the shootout, as did Walters, but the hoofers in their team let them down.
We would be saying he is a 24 y/o uncapped or fringe player, who has great potential to be a top class player and captain, of course some would be saying he was immobile, only passes backwards and can't tackle.
The debate continues to this day :p
Missed the penalties, I assume Walters scored.(he got first) I Will have a youtube at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIaiv4tsUZQ
It was a shame really as an Everton v Stoke final would have been a bit of a win-win. It'll probably end up being Liverpool v Man City I suppose.
Stoke were by far the better side as well, especially in the second half, but seemed to settle for what they had once Arnautovic went off with about twenty minutes left. He was having a brilliant second half. I was thinking they'd need to win it in normal/extra time as Liverpool have a freakishly good record in shoot-outs, and with Bojan, Arnautovic and Adam the players that had been replaced they were down three guys you'd be fairly confident would score their penalties, not that things are ever that straightforward.
Klopp said that Stoke reverted to their old style, Butland to Crouch all night, I really don't know what game he was watching. They went direct at times for sure, but whatever decent football was produced on the night, it was by the Potters. The were electric for the first twenty minutes of the second half and had something like 60% possession at half time, hardly reflective of a team that had resorted to hoofing.
Whelan really came into his own in the second half once the game was stretched as Stoke drove forward. Despite having a couple of his YOP described passes thrown in, he was instrumental in restricting Liverpool to... well to pretty much nothing!
Walters was a constant menace also, he could have easily got on the scoresheet as he had at least four chances, two in each half that I can remember. To be fair, three of the four were barely half chances with the best one in the first half where he pulled his shot wide when through on Mignolet from a tight angle. He telegraphed two shots that Sakho blocked in the second half when maybe he could have been a bit more clever and faked the shots to work a better position, as Sakho had was totally exposed having lunged in front of him. How does that guy get on the French team by the way?
As unlucky as they probably were on the night, I suppose Stoke can't have many complaints overall. Their goal was clearly offside and they totally underperformed in the first leg, that's where the tie was lost in hindsight.
He was very bad last night especially in the first half.he got dispossessed too easily on 3 occasions and a couple of misplaced passes when he actually tried to go forward or sideways. I now realise its an inability under pressure, nothing more nothing less. As usual always going for the easy lass straight back to defence, on one ocassuon if he turned to his left there was space in the middle and a possible counter.he just goes for the simple pass back to the defender....the defender then hoofs it. Defenders look for an out ball, tbey expect the midfielder to turn and move the ball forward not send it back again especially if players around, more often than not this leads to a defender just hoofing it forward - which is what we see so often with Glenn and Ireland
I agree with a lot of that, but he'll never be a 'turn and use it' type of midfield playmaker. There's no point in us even considering that at this stage, we just know we're not going to get it. I'm surprised it's only now you're realising this Paul, that it's an inability under pressure, what else would it be?
I thought he had very little to do in the first half, seeing as he job is making it difficult for the opponents once the reach the attacking third mainly. Liverpool were obliging enough to make it difficult for themselves, and Stoke weren't pouring bodies forward at this stage anyway. The second half was completely different, especially the first twenty minutes where I though he got through an awful lot of good work, closing down, interceptions, tackles, etc. All the stuff he gets paid for I suppose.
Me also, I had never realised that our age old historical inability to play the ball out was due to the ill effects of the opposition pressing us high up, along with our lack of technical ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Now that I have been made aware, it's certainly a revelation, almost a liberating revelation that has set me free from the bondage of ignorance, just to realise now how opposition teams could come to lansdowne rd, press us high up the pitch and we would end up hoofing or coughing up the ball. The penny had never dropped that our CM and back 4 x might lack the technical wherewithal.
On a more serious note, did you see Glenn shipping that ugly tackle and didn't make the slightest bit of fuss over it, just got up and back into position, his 2nd half performance was excellent.
motm according to the man from the bbc (website) :)Quote:
How does that guy (Sahko) get on the French team by the way?
I've seen him praised elsewhere as well! People love their dramatic last ditch stuff. He made some good blocks, no doubt. He's a total ball watcher, clumsy and unbelievably awkward in possession*. He was poor for (at least) two of Norwich's goals at the weekend and had a horror show in the 3-0 defeat to Watford a few weeks ago, that's just some of the obvious stuff I remember. I have been wondering for a long time why Koscielny and Varane isn't France's preferred partnership but they did ship four goals to Belgium when paired in a friendly. I don't know what their other options are.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
*There are some 'successful passes %' stats that contradict this also, but I know what I see!
Yeah I noticed that with Whelan and the tackle, not like 'Big Jon' crying about his torn sock :p
If Sakho was Irish we'd love him. A defender in the Richard Dunne mould of being caught out for pace and positioning but saving the day with a desperate lunge.
Aren't all lunges rather desperate Charlie? Who plans a lunge? It's implied.
Roy Keane planned one or two to my recollection.
Exceptions Charlie exceptions my dear Charlie.
Delorean I know its an inability. Charlie and the boys would have had ye believe it was traps game plan so for 6 years it was ingrained in his psyche, perhaps that he might not be able rid himself of such things. He is just generally very uncomfortable. He improved the last 30 mins which is fair alright but I felt that Stoke were in control around then and I wouldn't have put that down to our dean Glenn.
Walters I thought played well yesterday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
John Stones has been getting some criticism for trying to be a bit to clever for Everton, maybe he should have hoofed it up the pitch rather then passing back to his keeper,
there is a fine line in these things, sometime it is better to err on the side of caution.
I think in the case of Stones his back pass was anticipated which is why it got intercepted, I think Glenn's back passes and be anticipated too
when you play top teams, didn't it happen v Italy or Spain?
It is not good to be too predictable however you play.
Think we've all been guilty of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Paul never goes for the easy lass. Prospective lasses are vigorously vetted by all of YBIG before an approach is made. Unfortunately said lass has been gone several hours by then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Mind you one or two might be classed as premeditated assaults.
Yeah, Trap wasn't responsible for Whelan's limitations but he could definitely be blamed for not attempting to compensate for them, bar the very early days when Steven Reid looked the part.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Fantastic ;);)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Class.an odd Croatian lass ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Some numbers from Whelan's 300 appearances at Stoke: http://www.stokecityfc.com/news/arti...0-3008314.aspx
I know our management team can hardly be characterized as flexible and imaginative, but is it worth trying Whelan at centre-back? This is a real problem area for us looking at Euro's. Clark - short of game time, Keogh - a disaster waiting to happen, Duffy - untried at this level, Wilson - injured and out of favour at Stoke. Whelan's defensive qualities and positioning sense could make him a decent option, whereas his lack of mobility and limited passing options as a midfield player could actually be a benefit. It would create an opportunity for a McCarthy / Arter central midfield combo which would give us a lot more energy and tempo as well.
For those of us who have been following Ireland for more years than we care to remember there is an interesting precedent. Before the emergence of Lawrenson, Moran, McGrath et al we had a similar dearth of reliable centre back options. Not sure whether it was Giles or Hand who converted Mick Martin into a centre back, and he proved to be a reasonably effective performer.
Whelan's only obvious weakness (apart from not having played there) is lack of height, but this may not be the most relevant consideration against most of our likely opponents.
No, just no.
Did Klopp's Lucas experiment give you this idea Third Policeman? Lucas did play well enough there in fairness even if it way only ever going to be short-term. Clark's alleged lack of game time isn't a concern though, he's played plenty of football this season despite not always being first choice. Keogh scares me too but overall we still have enough options to work with and, more importantly, been defending well enough up until now to avoid doing something as radical as you've suggested. I do like the idea of having more energy in midfield but McCarthy, Hendrick and Hoolahan have provided more of that anyway as the qualification campaign progressed. Daley Blind has played there effectively for Manchester United also but at least he had plenty of experience in a back four and has top class technique and composure on the ball, I don't think anybody could argue the same for our Glenn.
Mascherano is another that made that move and worked out...
cough cough Roy Keane cough cough...
Hi PaulQuote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
You know, I have thought and said a lot of things watching GW in green over the years and uttered several two word phrases at his efforts. Never have the words center half been among those though.
Ireland's Paul Warhurst?
(Nah, just worst)
He is actually not as small as he looks.
Anyhow quite an achievement for Glenn he is basically our highest rank player in terms of league position of the club apart form Long who is not so regular a starter,
And Glenn is captain.
He has taken a lot of flak in his time but much of that has turned to compliments.
I guess his biography might be go something like Alan Partridges "Bouncing Back" with every chapter ending "Needless to say I had the last laugh".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxZ5AKDvyfU
Steve Coogan who incidently is eligible to play for Ireland although he has scuppered his chances somewhat by not playing in the qualifiers, and at 5' 9.5 he is well short of a solution to the centre back issue.
Paul Warhurst of Wednesday fame (I use the word lightly) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace