Derry City applying for Grant Aid

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

So, even though they pay taxes to "Stormont" and "Stormont" alone, they are not eligible to receive grants/funding/whatever you want to call it from "Stormont"?!

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Every other NI football club pays its taxes to Stormont. They also play in the IL. DCFC do not.

As I said elsewhere, lots of companies are registered in ROI, but transact part, even all, of their business in NI. They pay VAT, Income Tax, Nat.Insurance on that business to Stormont (Whitehall, actually), just like NI-registered companies.

How many times do I have to repeat, no-one is forcing DCFC to play in the LOI, just as nobody is forcing them to play their home games in a Stadium in NI?

If they were a Registered Charity, for example, then they would have a case for being tax exempt. But once more, it is DCFC who chooose to be a commercial concern.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Every other NI football club pays its taxes to Stormont. They also play in the IL. DCFC do not.

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That is so far from the issue.

We were forced out of the league. We joined another league. Now the bigots who forced us out want us back. We say NO.

We still pay our dues. We are entitled to Grant Aid. End of.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If they were a Registered Charity, for example, then they would have a case for being tax exempt. But once more, it is DCFC who chooose to be a commercial concern.

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What on earth are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Back to your Shams analogy: how would ROI taxpayers feel if they 50% funded SRFC (along with SDCC), Shams built a shiny new stadium and went off and played in a League in another jurisdiction?

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I'm a roye taxpayer and I'd be over the moon. But Derry are already well-established in a league in another jurisdiction at the point of applying for this funding so the analogy is crap. It isn't the smash-and-grab that the scenario above would be.

Derry City F.C. isn't just about the ninety minutes of football they play in FAI competitions once or twice a week, anyway; it's completely barmy to suggest that the club should not be eligible to apply for a grant from Stormont for the intangible benefit of so many people who live and pay taxes in that jurisdiction ... but that they would be if those ninety minutes of football were played in the IFA league.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

This paragraph destroys any other valid argument you have put forward.

Why should we be entitled to IFA funding? We are a member but do not participate in any IFA senior soccer, and do not contribute much money to the IFA bar our small membership fees.

However, we do contribute to Stormont. Why should we get money from a body we don't contribute to, but not from one which we pay our taxes to?

Since when has being a member of the IL been a pre-requisite to recieving grants? Should the GAA teams all join up as well?

Your argument is a mess.

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As I also said elesewhere, I would in principle accept a combination of FAI and Stormont funding as an alternative to IFA and Dublin funding.

However, if DCFC were also able to receive Dublin funding as well, thewn that would give them an unfair advantage over every other club on the island, including e.g. in the Setanta Cup.

And since we can not reasonably prevent Dublin from funding DCFC should they choose to, then the only way to close this loophole is by making membership of the IL a pre-requisite for receiving Stormont funding.

That way, DCFC would continue to be in a privileged position over all other Irish clubs over which League they play in, but not also the privilege of being eligible for double funding.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

but not also the privilege of being eligible for double funding.

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Gone undertand it is not double funding. Thats the part you are having the most difficulty with. It's 1 third funding from one body, 1 third funding from another, and 1 third commercial borrowings.

Here's an FAQ http://www.datafilehost.com/download.php?file=10d05297

Maybe you can inform yourself a bit.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

...I most certainly am not from Belfast. Or were you making further groundless assumptions about me from my Avatar?
Now that would be ironic, don't you think? :rolleyes:

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You could easily prevent such assumptions being made if you so wished. Or at least not act the innocent when somebody looks at your Glentoran avatar over your latest post concerning the IFA, finds your 'Location' left blank, and thinks you're from Belfast. This is a forum where people spend all day giving out yards about shams who don't support their local club, after all.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

We were forced out of the league. We joined another league. Now the bigots who forced us out want us back. We say NO.

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That is utterly illogical. Why would the former bigots who forced you out now want you back, when that would only mean their own share of the "Stormont Cake" would have to be reduced in order to allow DCFC their slice? Not to mention the fact that the almighty DCFC would indoubtedly win every trophy and deprive someone else of a place in Europe, Setanta etc...

I'm sorry, Pol, but by your posts you betray a sense of grievance and bitterness which is firmly rooted in the 1970's.
Which is your right, I suppose, if it didn't also cause you to insult people who are trying to live in the 21st Century and who are actually well-disposed and sympathetic towards the team you support.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I'm sorry, Pol, but by your posts you betray a sense of grievance and bitterness which is firmly rooted in the 1970's.
Which is your right, I suppose, if it didn't also cause you to insult people who are trying to live in the 21st Century and who are actually well-disposed and sympathetic towards the team you support.

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And in your posts you don't betray any sense what so ever. The issue is still relevant. Particularly when you keep stating we should rejoin the IL in order to be able to access the grants that we are entitled to access, due to the locality we operate in.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Gone undertand it is not double funding. Thats the part you are having the most difficulty with. It's 1 third funding from one body, 1 third funding from another, and 1 third commercial borrowings.

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Then let Dublin pay DCFC 2/3 and DCFC come up with the remaining 1/3 themselves.

Alternatively, let DCFC rejoin the IL and require Stormont to fund them 2/3.

What I cannot accept is that IL clubs be deprived of funding as a consequence of money going from what is already a pitiful budget to a club which chooses not to play in the IL.

Or would people in ROI be quite so happy to see £5m of their taxes cross the border if DCFC were not also hoping to see Stormont match it?

Would they be happy to see all £10m come from Dublin?

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Here's an FAQ http://www.datafilehost.com/download.php?file=10d05297

Maybe you can inform yourself a bit.

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Thank you for the patronising sarcasm. I suppose I should be grateful it's an advance from the outright abuse which you have formerly employed towards me...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Thank you for the patronising sarcasm. I suppose I should be grateful it's an advance from the outright abuse which you have formerly employed towards me...:rolleyes:

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Where have I outright abused you?

And to be honest, you seem to know very little about the whole proposal. Everything you come out with strikes me as someone who has heard someone else maybe getting a bit of money, and has decided to rant about it, without really ever informing himself (or herself) beyond a BBC report.

I'm providing you with more information.

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Originally Posted by Erstwhile Bóz

You could easily prevent such assumptions being made if you so wished. Or at least not act the innocent when somebody looks at your Glentoran avatar over your latest post concerning the IFA, finds your 'Location' left blank, and thinks you're from Belfast. This is a forum where people spend all day giving out yards about shams who don't support their local club, after all.

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I'm not "acting the innocent". I'm a Glentoran fan, from the years when I lived in Belfast, even though I am originally from somewhere else and subsequently live somewhere else* again.

Kristic accused me (offensively, I might add) of making stereotyped and bigoted assumptions about a place (Derry), on the basis of what was actually a slip by me (Bogside, instead of e.g. Cityside or Brandywell).
He then went on to make a false assumption of his own, based on my avatar - a case of "The biter bit", I think.


* - Ealing, in case yo've not guessed.

I work for an international company that has its HQ in belfast. we draw in profits from locations as far flung as fiji, islamabad, and barbados. the company pays taxes to the UK exchequer, and as such are entitled to government funding with regard to staff training, and also whatever tax/vat exemptions are available. why shouldnt they be if they operate in the uk? same situation with derry city fc. they operate both at home (in northern ireland) and technically abroad (republic of ireland). as such they are entitled to request funding from stormont. note that they do not apply to the ifa.

secondly, how does DCFC, under the guise of BPT, gain an upper hand over ALL other clubs on the island if they secure double funding? the money is to be used to build a new stadium. hardly an unfair advantage to let fans, both home and away, watch football in something other than a joke with a roof over half of it. if the club intended to use the money to fund full time football, that would be different issue, but such an accusation/insinuation would be a dangerous road to go down. dcfc aren't like other clubs. we dont have a sugar daddy. we dont have the option of selling off our ground and starting anew with megabucks from a promised sell to a property developer. all we have is our fans and our club, the way its always been and the way it will always be. i would advocate applying to the dalai lama if i thought it would get more money to improve local stadia, no matter what club it is. frankly, any fan of local football, north or south, is experiencing severe sour grapes if they oppose any attempt by any club to improve the local game in any way, be it building a new stadium or getting more sellers for match day programs.

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Derry want £5m from NI Executive
Brandywell
Derry City say the current Brandywell is not fit for purpose

Sinn Fein and DUP Assembly members are to join Derry City football club to ask the Executive to help fund a new stadium.

They are to ask for £5m to turn the Brandywell ground into a facility with capacity for 8,000 people.

The Irish government will also be asked for £5m, and the club will provide the remaining £5m.

"It's going to bring regeneration to the whole Brandywell area," said Sinn Féin MLA Raymond McCartney.

"We all know this is one of the most socially deprived areas not just in Derry, but the whole north of Ireland," he said.

"This is about a 21st century sports stadium, and a regeneration plan," said Mr McCartney.

DUP MLA William Hay has also given his support.

"This is a project not only for sport, but for regenerating that whole area," he said.

Derry City chairman Pat McDaid said the current stadium was an "embarrassment".

Mr McDaid and other Derry officials will hold discussions about the issues with representatives of the Northern Ireland Exectuive on Monday.

"It would be a regeneration for the whole of Brandywell which is a seriously deprived area," he said.

He said the club has "a very strong case".

"We've already held meetings with the various bodies north and south and we're hopeful of securing the funding for a much-needed stadium in the second city of Northern Ireland," he said.

"This money would serve a dual purpose. It would provide a stadium for the football club which is long overdue and also provide a new way forward for the people of the Brandywell," he said.

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From BBC news. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/n...nd/7370744.stm

Support flooding in from Durkan, the local DUP and Sinn Féin. Also a UUP member said he'd support it yesterday in Stormont.

Good news folks.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

Where have I outright abused you?

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Post #4 - "Whinger"
Post #13 - "Bloody Fenians"
Although #13 later apologised for, still not enough to prevent you from:
Post #13 - "A problem with Derry"
Post # 28 - A "WUM" and "anti-Derry"
Post # 37 - "Know nothing"
Post # 64 - "Bile"
Post # 78 - "Open your eyes"
Post # 81 - "Blind" and a "Muppet"

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

And to be honest, you seem to know very little about the whole proposal. Everything you come out with strikes me as someone who has heard someone else maybe getting a bit of money, and has decided to rant about it, without really ever informing himself (or herself) beyond a BBC report.

I'm providing you with more information.

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You had already provided that information (Post #44), with DCFC Steve likewise providing info (#83). I didn't require to be reminded again, thanks very much. I have never qustioned the substance of the application, rather the principle whereby DCFC should be uniquely privileged to receive double-funding, inc. money from Stormont funds which must inevitably deprive NI clubs who are still playing in the IL.

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Originally Posted by shantykelly

secondly, how does DCFC, under the guise of BPT, gain an upper hand over ALL other clubs on the island if they secure double funding? the money is to be used to build a new stadium. hardly an unfair advantage to let fans, both home and away, watch football in something other than a joke with a roof over half of it.

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You can't be serious. Derry are looking for 10 million to help build new facilities. You can't see how that gives them an advantage over other clubs who don't get 10 million quid to build facilities?

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Originally Posted by shantykelly

dcfc aren't like other clubs. we dont have a sugar daddy. we dont have the option of selling off our ground and starting anew with megabucks from a promised sell to a property developer.

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Despite what you light like to believe, this situation is by no means unique to Derry City.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I'm not "acting the innocent". I'm a Glentoran fan, from the years when I lived in Belfast, even though I am originally from somewhere else and subsequently live somewhere else* again.

Kristic accused me (offensively, I might add) of making stereotyped and bigoted assumptions about a place (Derry), on the basis of what was actually a slip by me (Bogside, instead of e.g. Cityside or Brandywell).
He then went on to make a false assumption of his own, based on my avatar - a case of "The biter bit", I think.


* - Ealing, in case yo've not guessed.

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Why was your 'Slip' the Bogside??

Why not Foyle Springs, Culmore or Carnhill??

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Post #4 - "Whinger"
Post #13 - "Bloody Fenians"
Although #13 later apologised for, still not enough to prevent you from:
Post #13 - "A problem with Derry"
Post # 28 - A "WUM" and "anti-Derry"
Post # 37 - "Know nothing"
Post # 64 - "Bile"
Post # 78 - "Open your eyes"
Post # 81 - "Blind" and a "Muppet"

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Is any of that outright abuse? Apart from the 'bloody fenians' one, which, as you say I apologised for.

If you think saying you are a wind up merchant or anti-derry, or asking you to open your eyes, is abuse then you have very thin skin (or is that abuse too? Apologies in advance xx).

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

You had already provided that information (Post #44), with DCFC Steve likewise providing info (#83). I didn't require to be reminded again, thanks very much. I have never qustioned the substance of the application, rather the principle whereby DCFC should be uniquely privileged to receive double-funding, inc. money from Stormont funds which must inevitably deprive NI clubs who are still playing in the IL.

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You have ignored it. Look at the cross community support the club has recieved in recent days, and the comments made on the regeneration of the area. The NI exec would be getting millions of pounds of value for contributing £5 million to a £15 million scheme.

And it's NOT double funding. It is 2/3rds funding, from two different sources.

I'd just like to say shame on SRFC fans voting 'No' on this poll. Think of the support you got from all teams during the TD affair.

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

I'd just like to say shame on SRFC fans voting 'No' on this poll. Think of the support you got from all teams during the TD affair.

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Shame on them because they genuinely believe that for whatever reason, Derry are not entitled to this money?

They are two different issues. If you supported Rovers regarding Tallaght, you did so because you thought they were in the right. If they voted against you regarding this issue, they did so because they think you are wrong. To try and say you are owed a favour for supporting them, or that "we should all stick together even if I think it's wrong" is childish in the extreme.