I don't think there are any glaring admissions in squad selection, so it really is a case of trying things and arriving at a system that maximises the resources at our disposal.
That might not be very good at all, but it's as good as this cohort of players are going to be.
Nobody's happy to see it continue. Most of us are resigned that we don't have any better players in that position. My view has long been that we should be packing the centre of midfield with additional players to deal with the weakness. I actually thought that's what we were doing tonight when I saw the line up. Sadly it wasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
We'll go nowhere with any midfield two that any of Hallgrimsson, McCarthy or O'Shea want to select, I know that much. Because we just don't have the quality of midfielders to play a midfield two, full stop.
I think leaving Molumby out of squad is strange.
But other than that, we don’t really have many options in midfield.
Still though….. Armenia ffs
Back at Euro 2012 I wanted to see Duff moved into a diamond midfield. He could pass the ball, he could hold on to the ball and he could read the game. He was not a natural midfielder at all but then neither was Dwight Yorke until Beenhakker stuck him in midfield for Trinidad. Luckily Trap found Paul Green though so all was grand.
Hungary drawing 2-2 with Portugal, with 33% possession at home.. with 1/3 of the passes Portugal have
You don't need to have the ball all the time, or make hundreds of passes
Just be effective when you have it
I see Norway beating Moldova 11-1 tonight.
**** me, we're so far off Norway it's mental
Stick a hape of lads in midfield, like anyone that doesn't have good midfielders would do !
A very good Belgium team of the 1980's played with 1 forward ( Jan Ceulmans ) and plenty of everything else behind him.
Plenty of teams have done this down the years ( many Italian teams for example, actually Italy may have done it, even when they had good midfielders ) ) . It's what you do if don't have good midfielders. It's not rocket science.
Norway had a Rangers player signed from L1 score a hattrick.... we'd have been too busy arguing about the standard of league he plays in to enjoy it
Actually hes got 4
Ah yes, the oft maligned 1-8-1 formation. F*ck it shur, lets give it a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Its not what I asked, im getting at the level of performance, trying to understand any issue in attitude, if a (supposedly poorer) team set up with familiarity with formation etc could they have been better? Would centre halves have let a bog standard through ball split them. Even in a back to the wall scenario would they have looked so unprepared, like they hadnt bothered in training. Im trying to get my head around what happened. SK it was all a bit experimental, trying to play in a way where there wasnt players capable of doing so, this is a tad more rudimentary and they shouldnt be out of their depth with HHs style. Its a curiosity on opinion not a leading question on championing Shamrock Rovers. Ridiculous as a suggestion but not so much as asking opinion on whether people think that SRFC or Shels even would have been as poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
6 or 7 in the Armenia squad play for a domestic side that Lincoln Red Imps beat in Europe, Uratu have a few and dont have a European pedigree really, 1 or 2 each from a few of other domestic clubs. LoI ranked higher for what its worth. So not asking if a domestic Irsh club would win against an international side Im questioning performance and attitude and preperation. Hypothetical stuff even if seen as pointess in a humour me way:D
Is there an argument for progressing underage teams to senior especially as soon as a campaign is over, getting the acclimatised to the senior setup, tactics and formation and develop a club team like mentality. With exceptions and augmented with some senior players. Preferable to trawling for granny rule players maybe. Could it help with the limited contact hours over time with the narrow international windows avalable to try and get older players working in a cohesive manner. For all the time the current senio players have had together they looked tonight like a first game together.
Well 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 , I am not totally out of control !Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I remember Tommy Coyne ( John Aldridge would have done it as well , some of the time anyway ) running the legs off himself for Jack Charlton, and as I assume Big Jack was playing with a back 4, then that must have been 5 in midfield, and if when needs must, Jack Charlton is willing to play with 5 in midfield, then maybe some other Irish managers that are not doing too well, should give it a try? !
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
USA ‘94 we had a 5 man midfield with Sheridan, Keane and Townsend in the middle.
The players we have now wouldn’t be fit to lace the boots of any of them.
English league domestiques - love it!Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
When I was young in the 80s Norway were really average/ poor international team, think they would have had amateurs playing (could be remembering wrong) and then with the help of oil money turned their domestic league professional, huge investment in youth structures and seemed to improve hugely in 90s. Also had a very direct style.
Unfortunately Ireland is where it is, we can change managers, discuss players, tactics but we are drifting down nations rankings.
And then to make matters worse the international team is needed to get funds for Irish football. Vicious circle. Unless government gives money and it’s used well can’t see improvements.
We have the football we deserve thanks to FAI and government who don’t really care about the game.
Also I do think our squad should beat Armenia, that’s on HH and squad but having divine right to beat them I wouldn’t agree. Before the Hungary match all I heard was 6 points at worst 4 referring to Hungary. No mention of Armenia. Most countries in Europe are improving, sadly I don’t think we are.
Coyne wasnt a consistant prolific goalscorer at particularly high levels either but he did what was wanted of him, run the line, hold the ball up and close on everything. I dont think there was an Irish player of that era that worked so hard and so under appreciated for it. David Kelly got more credit for less. People werent too happy he sarted v Italy in 94 and Aldridge on very late. I suppose he was a defensive striker. But yeah while I hated the way Charlton and Mick went to 5 in midfield even when in control with 4, to try and bank a result (backfired a few times like Holland away 2001), I think tonight, with hindsight, that it could have been a possible option. Squeeze up, crowd midfield, 4 still behind to cover turnover of possession, set up like we had no pace with a flat 5 in midfield and strong mobile targetman that brings midfielders in to play, knock it down, or feeds a wide player and tears into the middle to cause mayhem for a cross. Old could be the new new. Dont concede, difficult to beat, nick a goal, spoil after - what I though HH was all about!?Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Absolute mystery to me why when we had Kinsella, Holland and Keane we had to drop one of Kinsella or Holland. The three of them in the centre of the park and any opposition midfield is dead on arrival.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Sheridan wasn't a super-star , he could pass the ball very well, if given the time and space and he certainly wasn't known for doing a lot of, running / chasing / harry-ing. Was Townsend a super-star, ok he was a good bit better than what we have now. Could Finn Azaz do a job as the midfielder behind the forward. He is a decent passer. He would need, one / maybe two, midfielders that would make themselves available for attacking passes and of course, the one forward would have to be dangerous enough to probably keep two defenders worried / busy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
It's not as if, playing our not so great midfielders in small numbers is working out for us !
i think collins needs to be dropped at least for the next game. he's far too casual and comfortable and making loads of mistakes. scales i suppose to come in, it probably won't change the results but the last couple of performances have been unacceptable from a captain.
when Phillips was brought on i really did start to wonder about HH. he is just not up to it, league two or LOI level. nothing wrong with that either by the way, he can have a decent career as a professional footballer.
I think I'd actually move O'Brien to CB and bring Doherty in RB or Ebosele maybe. Although what has O'Shea done to warrant his place either?Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
Maybe Scales and O'Brien as our CB pairing
And yet they would've put in a better performance than the Irish team tonight. Rovers might have lost that game due to an error or two. They wouldn't have looked like they had no idea how to even approach the game. Armenia are a really, really poor international side. We made them look levels above anything they ever look, while fielding players that play at a higher level than they do. On the same night, Rovers captain looks like he cemented his place at the WC by beating Cameroon. Interesting side story.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The main questions after tonight are:
1. Can we afford a manager who can make this team competitive?
2. How do we stop this from becoming the norm? Id argue we need investment at home. Some might say we need a different approach. At this stage our options are......limited.
People brushing off the importance of the domestic development of players, or claiming that they lack in terms of technical ability, are ignoring the large transfer fees being paid for our academy players, which is a recognition that an awful lot is being done with very little. See Shamrock Rovers performance at the Hale Cup, which was the catalyst for Ozhianvunas record deal. He's not a clear standout from that group btw.
Support local football folks. It may be the only option on the table. It's going to be a long road.