Republic of Ireland V France - Monday, 27th March 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

He was definitely tired. He put in a hell of a shift. I don't feel he was exhausted. But these things aren't black and white. One mans tired and another mans exhausted might be the same thing. Unless we're talking about Stephen Roche in La Plagne these things are clearly points on a spectrum

But I'll say thing again in case anyone missed it.

Running on fumes or not, he's demonstrated he has a poachers instinct and we needed a goal. IMHO we needed to get him more support, not hook him.

Yes, he was tired, but that doesn't automatically mean he should have come off. When the ball was being fired in to the box in the last 10 minutes he was our best chance to bundle something over the line.

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Ah stop will ya! If you are on fumes, the first thing to go is your ability to be where you need to be at the time you need to be there and, not far behind that, is your brain letting you know where you need to try to get to. With all respect, that is just a bad take.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

I think with all the talk of playing a different style, it's worth noting that our biggest threat against France came from set pieces. Some Kenny fans like to dismiss it as a dinosaur tactic but is it worth having Duffy on the bench for the last 10 minutes? It was made for him last night.

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We played some really attractive stuff to get to the point where we had corners and free kicks in dangerous areas. The way Kenny used Ogbene was brilliant too. Mixed it up between good passing and balls into the channels.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

-------------------- Bazunu --------------------
----------- Collins - Egan - XXXX ---------
Coleman ---- Cullen ---- Molumby ---- XXXX
-------- Ogbene ------------------ XXXX ------
------------------- Ferguson --------------------

Moving things on a little, are we all more or less agreed that this is the basis of our team for the foreseeable future?

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Pretty close. Though I think that Kenny takes more of a game by game approach to things as we saw last night when it comes to deploying his personnel. Regarding your team there, id say the following:

Bazunu guaranteed starter for the foreseeable future.
I think the back three of Collins, Egan and O'Shea picks itself now. They were all excellent last night.
I think it is likely a toss up between Doherty and Coleman at RWB especially if O'Dowda is our new, long-term LWB. These wide positions are a problem area for us, need to try and bring more options through.
Cullen and Molumby - check.
Ferguson - check (Idah an effective deputy i think after last night - I was pleasantly surprised by what he showed - demonstrated the Portugal game wasnt a one off).
I think it is going to be a toss up between Ogbene and Obafemi with Obafemi getting the nod in most games. Ogbene when we're likely to have less of the ball and as an impact sub.
Knight and Smallbone are probably in close competition and, again, i'd say its on a horses for courses basis.-

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

There was a great 4 v 3 break around 60 mins where he had Ferg, Knight and Molumby all in support and he should have rolled the ball.in front of Evan. It was an excellent opportunity from where we were.

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Ya Evan pointed to him, to play it across the box into the middle, Ogbene took the easy option. He should have gone another couple of yards using his pace to make that ball in front of Ferguson easier to make its target(between penalty spot and 6 yard box). Ferguson had about 2-3 metres on anyone and a big open space to run into. It was very disappointing. I guess that Ogbene isnt quite at that level. If that was France it was a goal, into Giroud. Ferguson needs good supply like Giroud does for France to be effective. That was fairly apparent last night, thats where his strength is and his running showed it throughout last night.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Its a pity that we must default to discrediting the opposition every time we compete at this level. France played as well as they were allowed to play.

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France played as well as they needed to play.

Some individual points I picked up on. Dont have time to elaborate for now:
France are real athletes. Fine specimens of men!
Coleman, saddens me he really should have been at a champions league club for the majority of his career. Great game.
Can Ogbene be the next Coleman, slow steady rise into a top class player.
Why were our set-pieces so bad given we focused solely on scoring from set-pieces? That training ground move was so bad and so easily read.
A game of 1 half and 2 quarters.
Yesterday showed we dont need to have all the possession, or keep ball for the sake of keeping ball. This was an entertaining game that focused on the important things, until it didnt and we conceded.
Can players like Molumby, knight and Ogbene deliver these performances when its not Tier 1 teams. Are they big game charlies?
Collins looks great when he has support around him and he doesnt have to do a man marking job.
France toyed with us for 20 mins where we were chasing shadows. They also identified to press high after about 20 mins and we werent capable of playing out - no bad thing we played great intelligent balls over the top and hoofed it under pressure in the first 45.
Ogbene was much better when the shackles were off and he was given the freedom to get forward.
Ferguson hopefully learns from this type of game whats required of him in an Irish Jersey and not just a Brighton jersey.
Idah held the ball up better when he came on I thought but I still don't see anything extra from him - ball for mccleans chance aside.
Cullen will find it much tougher in the PL, I thought he generally did well, but he was not able to dictate our own play like he normally did - not focusing out of possession.
Kenny for me got the first 45 spot on. He still wouldnt say it was wrong to play the ball around the box, against lost possession and a worldie. Thats 20 in 24/5 now. And many are correlated to our losing possession.
Was it just me or did Kenny sound a lot better post match? Perhaps all the frustration felt by most of us lead to his inability to articulate himself. He needs to balance his emotions.
Thought our subs were generally very good, france had settled for 1 goal and get home, but they all made impacts of different kinds that got us on the front foot and driving forward.
Loved Collins and Molumby driving on the crowd. It was class. But is that something that soothes with experience and age? I feel so but I hope not.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

France played as well as they needed to play.

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Deschamps said exactly that, "we did what we needed to do, we got 6 points". I do think though he thought Ireland would roll over once the first went in. France just want to get through these games without any injuries.

That said we played well. France probably didnt need to hit 5th gear but we were still very good at what we had to do.

A couple of additional comments...

1. The ball from Cullen just before there goal. There was a chance for him to play a simple ball around the corner of a French player for Doherty to run onto into space. I saw it in real time (easy sitting on the couch) but it would have been a fairly high percentage pass. Not sure if Doherty would have made a shout or not. Instead Cullen seemed to panic a wee bit and rolled it to Knight who had also stepped up a bit early. Very unfortunate and could equally have been us breaking away.

2. Paul - i thought Kenny was awful again in front of the camera last night to be honest. He gets so nervous and has a hard time formulating his thoughts and articulating them. I love the man but I feel uncomfortable watching him at times. You might remember but it was one of my biggest fears when he was announced as the future manager because it goes back to his Bohs days. That sort of nervous energy/manner is something that i thought would see him crucified by the media and fans (and to be fair, they haven't).

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

France played as well as they needed to play.

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They only "needed" to beat the Netherlands 1-0 as well on Friday. Instead of sitting back against far superior opposition to us they went for the throat and could have won by any score. But their footballing perspective changed magically last night and only did the necessary against us, despite acknowledging after the game that Maginan's save was worth a goal. I find that analysis overly negative tbh. We did a good job on them and restricted a team who skittled a lot better teams than us 7-1, 4-0 etc. over the past few years to 2 or 3 long range efforts. In my opinion that is more down to our tactics than any other factor.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

All credit to John O'Shea obviously ;)

In the cold light of day it does feel like a point dropped. To concede from what was really the only mistake all night and to have their keeper pull off an absolute world class save was really cruel. Not sure anyone can argue the approach was wrong in any way. I thought we kept the ball really well in the first 10 minutes, then after that we had to sit back and be compact and we did struggle to get our for a lot of the first half.

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That was because France figured out if they press us high up we dont have the ability to play the ball around. We hit some balls over the top, one or two misplaced ones though( actually 3/4 from Coleman his only blight), to counter this and it was mostly effective. That's what made the goal so disappointing.

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In replays it does look like maybe Collins put it in the one place he had a chance to save it, but it was a powerful header and the keeper had no right getting such a strong hand to it.

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I felt that at the time, but didnt want to comment until I'd seen it again on TV. If there were enough power and not across his head, he went for accuracy over power instead of a hybrid approach, that was a goal. A world class save but as Roy Keane says "that's his job". World class keepers will make World class saves. But I do feel nitpicking when saying that, hopefully he recognises that himself though.

Agreed on the last paragraph I dont feel anyone had a bad game.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

-------------------- Bazunu --------------------
----------- Collins - Egan - XXXX ---------
Coleman ---- Cullen ---- Molumby ---- XXXX
-------- Ogbene ------------------ XXXX ------
------------------- Ferguson --------------------

Moving things on a little, are we all more or less agreed that this is the basis of our team for the foreseeable future?

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I don't think there's a need to pigeon-hole it; it'll move around a bit game-by-game. Three months between games means things will change, especially with a young squad.

Ogbene played very well yesterday in a pretty thankless role, but he was on the bench the second half of last year and people were happy with that. Against a team where we need to actively create more up front, does he start? Johnston would almost be the first name on my teamsheet against Gibraltar based on what I've seen of him so far, but I'm not sure if he'd get away with those jinking runs against Greece (just better defenders). This may well be Coleman's last campaign - does that constitute the "foreseeable future"? (And maybe it does) And we've always got to be flexible enough to allow for a Ferguson exploding onto the scene.

It reminded me of the qualifier v Germany, a tense raucous support, faced with disciplined aggressive defending the very talented Germans only had one or two shots on target, that game even had the spectacle of Wes recklessly giving the ball away in front of goal but it went unpunished, yet this time we are fated to get get nothing in the end. I have absolutely have no issues with fans getting excited for the future, but I'll wait and see how this performance is carried forward, when Greece are beaten home and away, see how we close down Greece trying to play ball out and be able to withstand and play around Greece pressure in our half. Then 3 points or 2 draws v Netherlands who won't be sh'itting themselves this time. This was probably the best time to play France at home after their sky kissing celebratory performance in Paris the other day, we have missed an opportunity.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I felt that at the time, but didnt want to comment until I'd seen it again on TV. If there were enough power and not across his head, he went for accuracy over power instead of a hybrid approach, that was a goal. A world class save but as Roy Keane says "that's his job". World class keepers will make World class saves. But I do feel nitpicking when saying that, hopefully he recognises that himself though.

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Someone yesterday mentioned that Collins could have gone back the other way with more power and I am not convinced that a) it was feasible and b) that Maignan wouldnt have saved that too (you can see from the photo his starting point was very central - he'd likely already started moving right when the photo was taken). I think Collins did pretty much everything right with that header and it was a moment of goalkeeping brilliance.

edit: maybe if he had gone the other way, Maignan would have blocked it and it could have fallen to Idah or Johnston... if and buts...

https://img.rasset.ie/001daa47-1440.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

France played as well as they needed to play.

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France usually play as well as they need to play to win away from home. They don't really blow teams away - in the last ten years, they've scored four goals away from home against Andorra, Moldova, and Belarus.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Someone yesterday mentioned that Collins could have gone back the other way with more power and I am not convinced that a) it was feasible and b) that Maignan wouldnt have saved that too (you can see from the photo his starting point was very central - he'd likely already started moving right when the photo was taken). I think Collins did pretty much everything right with that header and it was a moment of goalkeeping brilliance.

https://img.rasset.ie/001daa47-1440.jpg

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That's an amazing photo. Collins did everything you would tell a centre half to do in that situation - put the ball in to the hardest place for the keeper to reach it, the top corner. The save was world class, and considering how little he had to do in the game, he still made two saves right at the end of the game to preserve the win for France.

Its not top corner though. People need to stop saying its top corner. its upper right side past halfway between centre and right post but its not top corner.

The photo on rte shows how little mikey micky got to it but yet generated so much power. Egan was over exuberant as well, if he hadnt the ball would have come to our two players on the 18 yard line anyway.

Top corner

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Ah stop will ya! If you are on fumes, the first thing to go is your ability to be where you need to be at the time you need to be there and, not far behind that, is your brain letting you know where you need to try to get to. With all respect, that is just a bad take.

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With respect that's just not true. Just because you lack the energy to press from the front and chase after lost causes, doesn't mean you can't still play between the lines of the penalty area, offer a at set pieces and take a couple of steps to find a bit of space in the area when the opportunity comes along. We were coming up to the point of the game when we didn't really need his running anymore. Of the remaining 25 minutes there was always going to be 15 of them spent with us camped outside their penalty area.

On the Collins header, it was just an incredible save. The first save was good but you would expect him to make it. The one from Collins he has no right at all to keep out of the goal. Maignan was worth 2 points to France last night.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Top corner

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That's an angled photo in fairness. A more central angle shows it was maybe a yard or more inside the post -

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/400xn/p0fcbn9k.jpg

I don't think that takes away from either the quality of the header or the save. But it wasn't quite top corner.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's an angled photo in fairness. A more central angle shows it was maybe a yard or more inside the post -

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/400xn/p0fcbn9k.jpg

I don't think that takes away from either the quality of the header or the save. But it wasn't quite top corner.

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His right foot is 60% or more to the right along the goal line and he’s at full stretch. It might not have been in the absolute corner but had it gone in you’d say he scored into the top corner. Constant nitpicking here about everything is driving me nuts.

He's 28 until he's 29 - that's how it works.