Republic of Ireland V Portugal - Thurs, 11th November 2021 - 2022 World Cup Qualifier

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

to say portugal were only half interested is such nonsense.

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It isn't nonsense though.

Whether we drew with them 0-0 or they beat us 10-0 made no difference to them, so they went with the approach of resting players on yellow cards and playing quite conservatively and expending relatively little effort. In the case of Bruno Fernandes, he might as well not have even been on the pitch.

And for what, 80 minutes, it worked out fine for them. Only after Pepe's red card did we really put them under sustained pressure, and even then, that didn't lead to any real chances.

Now, even taking all that into account, we can still be positive about the performance and result, because even a weakened Portugal side trying to see out a game are a cut above us so we did well and can celebrate a solid team performance with some good individual showings, but it makes no sense to ignore how Portugal approached this game.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

It isn't nonsense though.
In the case of Bruno Fernandes, he might as well not have even been on the pitch.

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never plays well with ronaldo

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Originally Posted by osarusan

It isn't nonsense though.

Whether we drew with them 0-0 or they beat us 10-0 made no difference to them, so they went with the approach of resting players on yellow cards and playing quite conservatively and expending relatively little effort. In the case of Bruno Fernandes, he might as well not have even been on the pitch.

And for what, 80 minutes, it worked out fine for them. Only after Pepe's red card did we really put them under sustained pressure, and even then, that didn't lead to any real chances.

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we had a few half chances in the first half and forced a number of corners.
id agree they were a bit more conservative in their approach than i expected but that's not the same as half interested

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Portugal did seem poor and disinterested last night but that sort of language suggests it's a one-off but they were pretty poor in Faro too for the most part.

The context is important - it felt like a weird game for sure - but a really solid showing against one of the world's best teams is absolutely fine by me.

The most encouraging part imo is how much more assured we seem at the back, hopefully it's a proper trend but it does feel like we're tightening up in a way that will be extremely important next campaign (especially since, as ever, we're not going to score loads and loads of goals).

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Yeah, the Faro game was weird too. I'm not sure how good their manager is - yet he won the Euros with them, so he can't be that bad. But there's still a sense he's not getting the best out of the squad, and I think it was mentioned before the away game that he was under pressure.

I don't fully agree with you on the defensive aspect though. We were assured - but I think we've always been fairly assured there under Kenny. It's where our best and most experienced players are - Coleman, Doherty, Egan, a revitalised Duffy. Even when we didn't score for seven games in a row at the start of the Kenny reign, we only conceded six goals, and three of those were in a friendly in England that we shouldn't have arranged. In fact, the only times we've conceded more than once under Kenny have been away to England, away to Serbia, and away to Portugal.

Up front continues to be our weakness though, and in that regard the main disappointment for me from the game was that after seven goals last month, we didn't really test the keeper once even with Portugal not really too bothered. A couple of goals on Sunday (probably from Idah now I've reverse jinxed him!) will end the campaign nicely though and give us something to look forward to for the Nations League.

But "Absolutely fine by me" is a nice way of describing the performance last night actually. It's certainly a point I wasn't expecting, I think it's clear the players will play for Kenny (which was maybe a concern when he was appointed) and it was a more entertaining 0-0 than some of the 0-0s I've seen under previous managers. Those are all good things.

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Originally Posted by Stav

Interesting approach as if they ,had won last night they were in the driving seat on Sunday. Ireland are improving and hopefully that continues in Luxembourg.

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No - even if they had won last night, they would still need NOT to lose to Serbia. A draw or a win put them in the same position for Sunday. So they were obviously settling for a draw.
RTE described it as en 'entertaining game'. What???
From what I've seen so far, would be very surprised if Idah or Ogbene score more than ten goals in their Ireland careers. We have huge problems up front.
If Kenny wins against Luxembourg, I expect it will save his job - if the FAI meets to decide his future before next year. I think there has been some progress - admittedly from a dismal start.

My key take away points from last night are
We were very good last night, they have world class lads we don't and we deserved to win
Kenny deserves a lot of credit for something we haven't discussed much recently and that's dismissing the myth that Matt and Seamus cant be on the pitch at the same time
The ref was correct in disallowing our goal, the footage from behind the goal shows Will Keane impede the keeper
If we play at this level over the next 2 years we are going to Germany ( thats a big if of course)

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

we deserved to win

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Really?

Ronaldo had the three best chances of the match. His header and his curler both inches wide, and his shot which was blocked by Coleman (I think). On the basis of chances created - and how else to decide who deserved to win a fairly dull 0-0 draw? - Portugal came out on top for me.

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Originally Posted by liamoo11

Ogbene strange call. Kenny incapable of not making random selection. Can ogbene play inverted and come centrally? Find it strange idah doesn't play as a focal point for Robinson to play off. Are we hoping to be pinned in and looking to hit ogbene wide on the break ? If that's the plan it's fairly grim.

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I assumed Ogbene was a near certainty!

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ronaldo had the three best chances of the match.

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Not Enda Stevens? What about the Ogbene header in the first half? - which followed the blocked chance Hendrick had. If Stevens and Ogbene hit the target, which they should in those situations, their goalie needs a Buffon quality save to keep them out.

We didn't deserve to win, nor did Portugal - a draw was fair. I feel we lost forward momentum with the introduction of Hourihane and McClean which maybe explains our somewhat tepid finish to a game we were shading.

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Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

Very dull match. Was like a dour friendly. Portugal uninterested as was shown by their selection. They were resting before their important match against Serbia. Nothing really can be read into this performance based on that but I thought we were quite poor.

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It's a results business.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Not Enda Stevens? What about the Ogbene header in the first half? - which followed the blocked chance Hendrick had. If Stevens and Ogbene hit the target, which they should in those situations, their goalie needs a Buffon quality save to keep them out.

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Not really for me. I guess part of it is who's on the end of the chance. Give Ronaldo chances like we gave him and you expect a goal. Give them to Stevens or Ogbene, then...

I agree with you that a draw was fair. But I think to go down the rabbit hole of "who deserved to win?" (neither did, because neither scored), then I don't agree with diggs that we deserved to win. I thought on overall play, we were the more composed side for a lot of it, but Portugal carried more threat, almost entirely because they had Ronaldo up front and we didn't.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Really?

Ronaldo had the three best chances of the match. His header and his curler both inches wide, and his shot which was blocked by Coleman (I think). On the basis of chances created - and how else to decide who deserved to win a fairly dull 0-0 draw? - Portugal came out on top for me.

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we had the slightly better xG. I'm not a big fan of xG, but it can be an indicator of how creatively a team is playing.

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

Adam Idah is a strange one. Pukki is obviously a goalscorer but I find it very odd that Norwich have never tried them together.

This is one for those of us of a certain age, but with the right coaching I could see him turning out a lot like John Fashanu.

Obviously the game has changed and a lot of the things the crazy gang did would be impossible today, but big, strong, and awkward as hell are still qualities in a forward.

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Originally Posted by geysir

The ref wasn't crap, he made a poor decision re the foul on the goalie, but his other decisions were good and Pepe was good for his 2 yellows. And if you so condemn the ref, does that mean Kenny's team should won have that game? and in winning the game would you still be similarly critical of Kenny?

On Kenny, I'd say of those who attended the game, most would be okay with Kenny continuing in the role. It does say something when a top European team are rendered neutral by a distinctly average Irish team (by our standards) who offered an intelligent game plan. Offhand I can't think of any previous Irish manager who would have done better than Kenny in his preparation for this game.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

What bothers me about Brady is he says “we must at all costs wait until the friendlies before making a decision on his suitability” while (during the exact same discussion) having said “we can’t read anything into positive performances in friendlies”. That’s absurdly twisted logic….

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Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

That’s incorrect : he said we’ve approx 3 friendlies in March and 4 Nations cup games in June - and after that a decision should be made i.e. allows FAI more time/facts to help formulate a decision - made complete sense to me.

Personally just the fact alone that Kenny persists with giving McClean game time is enough to question whether he should get a new contract

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Originally Posted by osarusan

It isn't nonsense though.

Whether we drew with them 0-0 or they beat us 10-0 made no difference to them, so they went with the approach of resting players on yellow cards and playing quite conservatively and expending relatively little effort. In the case of Bruno Fernandes, he might as well not have even been on the pitch.

And for what, 80 minutes, it worked out fine for them. Only after Pepe's red card did we really put them under sustained pressure, and even then, that didn't lead to any real chances.

Now, even taking all that into account, we can still be positive about the performance and result, because even a weakened Portugal side trying to see out a game are a cut above us so we did well and can celebrate a solid team performance with some good individual showings, but it makes no sense to ignore how Portugal approached this game.

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Totally agreed

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

we had the slightly better xG. I'm not a big fan of xG, but it can be an indicator of how creatively a team is playing.

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I suppose what xG doesn't take into account is whether Ronaldo or Enda Stevens is the one having the shot :)

Also a bit unusual to exclude blocked shots? Ronaldo's effort in the first half would level things up; seems harsh to exclude it because it was stopped by Coleman rather than Bazunu/the post/the netting

Jeez, there’s some real negativity here. And it seems like it’s a results business until such time as we get a result and then it’s a performance business.

Anyway, my only ambition for last night was for Bazunu not to make a mistake :)

Overall anyone who can’t see the progress we’re making is just wilfully blind to it. That passage of play (referred to earlier by centre mid) on around 75 mins where we were hemmed in at our own corner flag, played a few brave but accurate passes and moments later used the full width of the pitch to fashion a great chance for Stevens was just incredible. Incredibly brave, incredibly accomplished.

The individual performances were mainly really good. Duffy is like a man possessed these days.

Sure there were some frustrating moments. Notably in the first half where despite having little of the ball we messed up some transitions that could have been very dangerous. I thought McGrath wasn’t used in a good position for a lot of the first half, he’d have been better used deeper. I was a bit nervous about the substitutions too.

A few candidates for MOTM but Cullen and Hendrick really stood out. Not so much for any specific passages of play or big moments but for how – and in a 2 man midfield – they showed “moral courage” to get on the ball all the time. Twice in a minute in the first half Cullen took short passes from Bazunu in very difficult positions and nonchalantly played it back or to a full back. This really set the tone in my opinion – it screamed “be brave” to everyone else.

I thought 6-12 months ago we were a side playing “modern” football by diktat. Now I think we’re doing it because we want to and because we believe we can. The players have obviously bought into it and I think it’s a huge leap forward for Irish football and we’ll benefit from it in years to come

I thought our “goal” was correctly disallowed btw. It wasn’t a particularly serious foul but it was just enough of an impediment to warrant a foul.

On to Luxembourg now. I’m really looking forward to it. I don’t have massive confidence we’ll win but I am now confident we’ll turn up with our A game and give it a right go. I just worry about whether we’ll get the goals.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

What bothers me about Brady is he says “we must at all costs wait until the friendlies before making a decision on his suitability” while (during the exact same discussion) having said “we can’t read anything into positive performances in friendlies”. That’s absurdly twisted logic….

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Do we even know who the friendlies are against?

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Originally Posted by brine3

recently we've pretty much reverted to our put 'em under pressure heroics.

I think the players have taken things into their own hands.

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I've seen the exact opposite. I've seen players showing for the ball and trying to develop play in a way I've never seen an Irish team do before. Seriously, what are you watching at all?

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

I didn't think the "scary" moments playing out were all that scary.

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It'll always be scary to me! But I appreciate it. It feels a bit like Russian Roulette to me sometimes - 1 in 6 times it might kill you. But the upside is that it creates space up the pitch once you beat the first press. I'm not sure it's a tactic for a bobbly pitch. I think Kingdom was at that ground last month and said the pitch was terrible.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Really?

Ronaldo had the three best chances of the match. His header and his curler both inches wide, and his shot which was blocked by Coleman (I think). On the basis of chances created - and how else to decide who deserved to win a fairly dull 0-0 draw? - Portugal came out on top for me.

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Yeah. I thought we were the more aggressive team. I thought we were more composed in possession. I thought we were more likely to score and I thought we were the better team. So yeah we deserved to win.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It'll always be scary to me! But I appreciate it. It feels a bit like Russian Roulette to me sometimes - 1 in 6 times it might kill you. But the upside is that it creates space up the pitch once you beat the first press. I'm not sure it's a tactic for a bobbly pitch. I think Kingdom was at that ground last month and said the pitch was terrible.

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I think that's the thing, it's scary to the extent we're not used to it, we've had nearly two decades of "we don't have the players" so the nerves set in, you could sense it in a few of the panicky gasps from the crowd (probably doesn't help the players!) but there was very few genuinely dangerous moments, it felt very controlled and methodical for the most part. Hopefully the more we get used to it and the more the methodology sinks in with the players, the less scared we'll all be.

If it's the same pitch the 21s played on it's a cabbage patch and we might well have to do revert to a bit of old school lump it to the big man!

Kingdom was in Dudelange. We won't be there on Sunday. Luxembourg have a new national stadium and I'm not sure if Sunday won't be its first game actually. But Dudelange isn't the national stadium anyway, no more than Belfield is the national stadium even though it's hosted 21s before