I do sometimes wonder if Jack did more damage to Irish football in the long term than he did good.
It's not as if we were hopeless before he came along. There's a case to be me made that the 1982 team was one of the best Irish teams there ever was, but had to deal with extremely dodgy refereeing in favour of Belgium on multiple occasions.
How would Jack have gotten on if his Euro 88 or Italia 90 qualification group had France, Belgium and the Netherlands in it...
Aha, I see. I'm more referring to the average Irish fan whose knowledge of football comes entirely from TV. Those are the types who don't understand off the ball runs, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
All true. And to answer JByrne's point about players not being able to make even the simplest passes not being Mick's fault, this is also true. I have been saying for years that players who cannot do the basics are not the fault of the manager. Problem with Mick and indeed MON and Trap is that none of them were willing to do the hard work to change the mentally of the teamQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Had a conversation with my father about the Georgia game on Sunday and I was basically ranting about how bad McClean was. He was surprised and said he thought McClean worked hard. That to me summed up why McClean is in the team, its because he gives the impression that hes running himself into the ground and that is important in a managers eyes.... its also a complete crock of sh1t. You could take any fit young fella and tell him to run around for 90 minutes like a headless chicken and give the ball away everytime he gets it.
It was a similar argument when Fellaini was in the team at United, people would say he works hard and will get you a goal, but how many times do other opportunitys break down because he runs it out of play or his touch is so bad he gives ball back to opposition.
McClean is a symptom of everything thats wrong with Irish football attitudes especially with the casual fan. The problem is that when the manager agrees with the casual fan it becomes a problem. McClean gave the ball away so often in the last 2 games its incredible. How can you build an attack when you know that everytime it goes to certain player the attack will break down. That also sucks the life out of others around him. We have all played on teams at whatever level where you dont rate a guy on the team with you and you know he is problem.
McClean isnt the only problem of course but he does sum up at lot of them and he needs to be replaced against Denmark or we will be having the same conversation
He got away with it when he was younger because although he was running about like a headless chicken he could maintain his level of enthusiasm for 90 minutes and that often ended up producing something, particularly late in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Last night he was blowing out of his arse after 70 mins. An exhausted James McClean is no good to anyone.
The real tragedy is that a fresh McClean coming on with 20 minutes left might have offered a real threat. Particularly on that pitch.
I love James McClean and I love the way he plays. The guy gives the ball away far too often, but he's the most likely player to produce a bit of magic and make something happen. He'd be the first name on the team sheet for me every time if I was the manager.
There's been more of a swing back in the interest of Irish football fans in the fate of the Irish team recently, and I think a large part of it is guys becoming disenfrachised with the PL, for many reasons, and a lot of people are starting to look closer to home for their football kicks.
I think from being on this forum for the guts of 15 years, its easy to see that the vast majority of us are all vested in the performances of the National team above everything else, and it hurts to see us play so poorly, which is a mad thing to say when you consider some of the dross that's we've played before.
There are a lot of peculiarities about performances under this specific group of players over the last 4/5 years. We invest so much time trying to stop other teams from playing, and winning the ball back, but don't invest the same effort in keeping the ball. We look to offer little in attacking intent or threat when we have parity in a game, yet if we go behind we can put teams on the back foot at will. It is maddening. It could be said that we are in the worst position possible in that all of our attacking players, are guys who have someone else to do it for them at club level. We have no pivot so to speak. The pivot players that we do have are either in the 21s (or 19s), or are Jack Byrne (untested) or Didsy, who gets picked in a position to become the pivot weakens the overall structure of the team.
I've said a few times previously that as a National team, we are too slow to change; we are too slow to call players up and use them; too slow to drop someone who is either not playing well, or is playing in place of someone who is playing better.
Our Euro 88 group wasn't easy with three of the 24 Mexico 86 wc finalists Belgium (semi finalists), scotland and bulgaria in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
I'm honestly beginning to believe International level is a step up from permier league. We've had countless premier league players who just cant cut it at international level. Yet perform admirably in the premier league.
This team is clearly lacking in confidence though, I sensed it before the Georgia game, and certainly it was evident during the game. Micks substitution of browne said the same(which was ridiculous they were never ever going to score). ANd it negatively impacted the team. These lads dont believe themselves that they can beat Denmark at home.
Mick himself was very downbeat post match interview, when normally he always sees positives. Unfortunately Mick ceded to the public with his formation, but not with his selection. He got it wrong badly, like O'Neill before him, albeit O'Neill had it easier over the Sombre Sobering September fixtures.
i can't for the life of me understand why he started with a back 3 but with Stevens one of the 3 rather than wing back. Stevens for me has been a standout in the PL this year in that role, oozing confidence. I'd like to see Doherty and him as wing backs in Nov, or at least as attacking full backs with a narrower midfield. I can see a role for O'Dowda and/or Brady as each can come inside and off either wing.
Clark left side centre back with Duffy and Egan strikes me as a lovely blend. Stevens and Doherty as wing backs then.
Put a blanket over who plays midfield. I don't even want to venture a guess at that.
Didsy and Connolly up top. That would be a lovely partnership. Didsy has the control, awareness and the brain to be a great outlet beside Connolly.
That would look well.
I feel dosy for not knowing who Didsy is . Is he a new boy ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
McGoldrick.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
I'd like Long back myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
As I stated previously, I believe international football suits some more than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Case in point, McGoldrick has taken to it brilliantly from his first cap.
Robinson hasn’t at all.
Wouldn't complain about it either but it seems very odd he has picked Hogan ahead of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I've always liked Long, but to play him - or at least to start him - against Denmark would be a gamble. The stats from his game against Chelsea are not good:
Shots = 0; Key passes = 0; Offside = 1; Passes = 15; Pass accuracy = 47%. (Source: Whoscored)
I wonder if it's just a shift in mindset of some Irish fans, who maybe expect a bit more. Maybe it's also because Dunphy and Giles aren't always on TV anymore. I remember Kevin Doyle putting in loads of great shifts for Ireland but often his limitations were obvious, yet often he'd be lauded for his work ethic while Keane was similarly lambasted. And much of it was, I suspect, because Dunphy was on TV every international building up his running into the corners and conceding throw-ins to something approaching world class status.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
In his defence . Forwards passes in the attacking quarter of the field are going to be more intercept-able for a number of reasons . Or am I clutching at straws .Quote:
Originally Posted by Demesne Lad
47% passing accuracy from a Irish player? Have I died and gone to heaven?:rolleyes:
Sure he's in the dog days of his career, but his pace causes problems and that and can let someone else in. I'd have him over Collins, Hogan or Maguire all day every day. He's got the nous from a decent career at the top level. They don't, and are never likely to get the chance to play as much at that level.