League Cup 2019

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You can't lunge in two-footed and studs

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I think your making the challenge sound worse than it was. I'm aware that dangerous challenges can receive yellows regardless of contact. IMO this was not one of those challenges.

When I saw it first, I didn't think dangerous, I thought it was a cynical challenge/professional foul to prevent a counter attack. If McGrath stays on his feet, and launches a counter attack, it is quite likely that the ref waves play on and does not book Gillespie.

Regardless of whether it was a yellow card or not, because we could go around the houses on that one, would you not agree that McGrath dived to the ground without contact?

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

No one is arguing about it being a yellow EXCEPT YOU 😳
Card was justified for the challenge IMO.
Fair dues to Dundalk, would have probably preferred Derry to win (just for novelty) but Dundalk have that knack of getting the result.

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You don't think McGrath dived?

There was no contact alright.

But the ref's decision was still right, because the challenge was potentially dangerous. So there's no "going round the houses on that one"; it was a clear yellow, regardless of whether McGrath went to ground or not.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

There was no contact alright.

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Did McGrath dive?

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Regardless of whether it was a yellow card or not, because we could go around the houses on that one

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You have already said that no one is arguing about it being a yellow card! Two yellows equals a red. Its fairly simple.

The player is responsible for his own actions. You seem to be the only one wanting to cast blame elsewhere

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

You have already said that no one is arguing about it being a yellow card! Two yellows equals a red. Its fairly simple.

The player is responsible for his own actions. You seem to be the only one wanting to cast blame elsewhere

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Did McGrath dive though?

Umpteenth time asking this simple yes/no question that no one wants to answer.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Did McGrath dive?

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Probably did. I don't care in this instance though.

Do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

Because in no way am I making the challenge sound worse than it was, like you suggest.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

You have already said that no one is arguing about it being a yellow card! Two yellows equals a red. Its fairly simple.

The player is responsible for his own actions. You seem to be the only one wanting to cast blame elsewhere

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BTW, when I said no one was arguing the yellow, that is not the same as saying there is no argument. I outlined an argument to stu above. But I've no interest in arguing if it was a yellow or not.

I'm more interested in if people think McGrath dived? Yet everyone is dodging/deflecting/talking about something else like a bunch of spinning politicians. It really is a simple question.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Probably did.

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Finally. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

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I don't care in this instance though.

You really should.

Because it's by far the bigger issue. Otherwise, you're just getting lost in some anti-Dundalk rant and ignoring what really matters.

So I'll ask you again - because whether you care or not is irrelevant - do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

(Ironic of you not to answer a direct question seeing as that's exactly what you're giving out about others doing...)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You really should.

Because it's by far the bigger issue. Otherwise, you're just getting lost in some anti-Dundalk rant and ignoring what really matters.

So I'll ask you again - because whether you care or not is irrelevant - do you agree it was a sending off regardless of whether McGrath dived or just lost his balance trying not to pick up an injury?

(Ironic of you not to answer a direct question seeing as that's exactly what you're giving out about others doing...)

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How about the fact that I already answered you at the top of this page. 🙄

And I will add to my post above that McGrath could have hurdled the challenge without diving.

Hurdling a challenge like that doesn't make it not a yellow.

Lunging in like that is a dangerous tackle, and the reason it's an automatic yellow is to avoid player injury. Had he hurdled the tackle, the ref would have been perfectly entitled to give a free anyway and send yer man off.

So your analysis is wrong.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Hurdling a challenge like that doesn't make it not a yellow.

Lunging in like that is a dangerous tackle, and the reason it's an automatic yellow is to avoid player injury. Had he hurdled the tackle, the ref would have been perfectly entitled to give a free anyway and send yer man off.

So your analysis is wrong.

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Do you think that if he had hurdled the challenge, got the ball and created a chance that the ref would have 100% come back and branded a yellow card? Because there are plenty of incidents where refs don't go back and book the player.

My only argument really is that McGrath dived to ensure the yellow card? Would you not agree with that?

There is a wider football argument that, that is the way the game is gone. Players must go down to get the free. And we could argue the morals of whether that is right or wrong until the cows come home.

You can argue (and I think you are, without putting words in your mouth) that he has to dive in this instance and that is the way the game is. I may debate that point with you.

But for me, there is no question that I dived. You acknowledged it youself when you said above thet he "probably did". That is all I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Do you think that if he had hurdled the challenge, got the ball and created a chance that the ref would have 100% come back and branded a yellow card? Because there are plenty of incidents where refs don't go back and book the player.

My only argument really is that McGrath dived to ensure the yellow card? Would you not agree with that?

There is a wider football argument that, that is the way the game is gone. Players must go down to get the free. And we could argue the morals of whether that is right or wrong until the cows come home.

You can argue (and I think you are, without putting words in your mouth) that he has to dive in this instance and that is the way the game is. I may debate that point with you.

But for me, there is no question that I dived. You acknowledged it youself when you said above thet he "probably did". That is all I'm saying.

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Edit above: Replace "I dived" with "he dived".

The ref should have come back and booked him, yep.

And because (a) he wasn't really going to create a chance from inside his own half and (b) because it was a red card which was advantageous to Dundalk of itself, he probably would have stopped play there and then.

Because regardless of what you think, you simply can't lunge into tackles like that - two-footed and studs up. For the reasons why, see most of the 1980s. Gillespie's own reaction afterwards shows that.

I'm not arguing at all that he has to dive here (you really are putting words into my mouth). I'm simply saying it's a red (well, second yellow, which is different) whether or not McGrath dived.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The ref should have come back and booked him, yep.

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"Should" but refs often don't.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

And because (a) he wasn't really going to create a chance from inside his own half and (b) because it was a red card which was advantageous to Dundalk of itself, he probably would have stopped play there and then.

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"Probably would have stopped play there and then". That is very debatable. McGrath may very well have got into a very good position in a 3v3 or similar and in such a case the ref would have to leave play go on and see if a chance comes from it.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'm not arguing at all that he has to dive here (you really are putting words into my mouth). I'm simply saying it's a red (well, second yellow, which is different) whether or not McGrath dived.

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That's fine but you are going back to being obtuse about "whether he dived or not". For me it's a clear dive, whether he was right to do so or not.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

"Should" but refs often don't.

"Probably would have stopped play there and then". That is very debatable. McGrath may very well have got into a very good position in a 3v3 or similar and in such a case the ref would have to leave play go on and see if a chance comes from it.


That's fine but you are going back to being obtuse about "whether he dived or not". For me it's a clear dive, whether he was right to do so or not.

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Not sure what game you were watching, but it was a reckless, totally out of control challenge, that another ref may have given a straight red for. Did you want McGrath to stand there and take the walloping? Would you have gone 'Ah, yeah, he clocked him there alright, that's a booking, I suppose' ? You make it sound like Rivaldo vs Turkey at the WC '02. Whether McGrath dived, or decided to do ten handstands the length of the field,is all utterly irrelevant and fades away when a reckless lunging challenge is thrown into the mix. Intent 1 Dive 0. Correct and only call the ref could have made.

B..b..but he dived I tells ya! is not a valid argument.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

That's fine but you are going back to being obtuse about "whether he dived or not". For me it's a clear dive, whether he was right to do so or not.

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I'm not being remotely obtuse. It was a sending off whether or not McGrath dived. I'm not sure how you're reading my post tbh, but my comment is very clear I think.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

You don't think McGrath dived?

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Probably made more of it and yes Dundalk players do that.
Irrespective of what he did it was a rash tackle and there can be little complaint about the outcome.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Did McGrath dive though?

Umpteenth time asking this simple yes/no question that no one wants to answer.

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Dear oh dear, you really should have taken my advise and logged off.

Did he dive? Matter of opinion. Could well be argued that he jumped out of the way of a dangerous tackle. Is he obliged to stay on his feet? He in no way pretended to have been caught so no play acting. You aside the general consensus is McGrath didn't get him sent off and it was a second yellow