Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Tue, 14 November 2017 World Cup 2018 Play Off 2nd Leg

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Originally Posted by gastric

As Riff Raff said , I too am in 50s and I have never experienced such a disaster. This felt even worse than Henry's handball. I have mentioned on here somewhere that we may need to experience short term failure to ensure long term progress. Here's hoping that the FAI start to look at a strategic plan rather than just hoping it will just happen

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I felt livid after the Henry thing. I just feel frustrated and a bit sad today. I’m glad there was no feeling of “so near yet so far”. I watched the last hour of that game with very little tension as I felt the game was up. We showed nothing at home to Austria, Wales and Serbia to suggest that we had anything other than a bit more huff and puff to try and turn things around. We were also brutal at home to Georgia too, let’s not forget.

I’ve been sceptical about O’Neill from very early on. I think he wasted his first year. His enormous squad announcements are daft. There is no visible strategy or philosophy other than be tight and nick a goal. I have had to reconsider though when results like Vienna and Cardiff came along but even still I was highly sceptical of all the ex-players singing his praises in the press. All the October articles ran along the lines of “he doesn’t talk about the game or tactics. He just motivates you and and makes you feel tall.” That never washed with me. I want more from a manager at this level and on that size of a salary.

The evidence is clear: we have a style that picks up points on the road but that allows our opponents to do the same to us at home. Plan B is chaos.

As for the FAI, I don’t know. We always complain. Yet October was a super month for the underage sides. All of them, even the U21s for a change. And as Kingdom says, the basics of appropriate pitches and goals all appear to be in place and I think the national underage leagues with the LOI clubs holding the balance of power now is a good thing.

O'Neill's luck finally ran out. If you play primitive hoofball stuff like that you'll get found out sooner or later. At least football won tonight - passing, ball control, possession and movement - they way it should be played. The World Cup will be much improved by us not being there. As Dunphy said, nobody plays like Ireland anymore. We've been suffering this rubbish for years, first Trappatoni, now the current incumbent. It's killing us. I gave up going to games years ago. We need a new manager and we need to start playing proper football.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I have had to reconsider though when results like Vienna and Cardiff came along but even still I was highly sceptical of all the ex-players singing his praises in the press. All the October articles ran along the lines of “he doesn’t talk about the game or tactics. He just motivates you and and makes you feel tall.” That never washed with me. I want more from a manager at this level and on that size of a salary.

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There is a monetary value to motivation - not many can motivate the best out of others. But yes agree, we should be getting more for our money but maybe that in itself is the problem. The large salary makes the manager overtly cautious and negative in his approach because it emphasises the getting of results. That or O'Neill subsconsciously knows he is out of his depth for the salary he is getting.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

If he just stood at the post instead of kicking the ball into the net who knows how this conversation would be going. I can't for the life of me figure out why his body is positioned the way it is. The worst goal we've ever conceded.

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Agreed, well, up until Ward teed it up for Eriksen.

The trouble is under MON, we don't really have a tactical identity. Or successful (and even semi-successful) teams in the past had a definable tactical identity. Under Jack we did play a direct game with long balls, but also with a target man who was good in the air (e.g. Quinn, Aldridge to an extent) we had dynamic combative midfielders (Townsend) who could mop-up the middle of the park. Under Mick we tended to use a build with full attacking backs (Kelly, Carr, Harte) and had a bit more possession with quality passers in central midfield (Kinsella, Holland). Under Trap we were a very well drilled defence who usually didn't ship many goals (except against the very top sides at Euro 2012 and afterwards), the idea was even with limited players we could keep games tight, stay in them (e.g. Moscow) and perhaps nick something late on (or in a second leg a la Paris).

Under MON we don't really have any identity at all, we play aimless long balls when fielding strikers who haven't a chance of winning anything in the air; we alternate between a "flair" midfield devoid of ball winners one game, to one that is overloaded with ball winners (and has no incision) the next. As others have said it's telling that his ex-players keep saying stuff like "MON doesn't do tactics" and the most depressing thing about the whole campaign was the interview with the Danish manager (on Sky)at the end where he said he couldn't believe how tactically naïve we were compared to our well-drilled performance at the weekend. He was asked about how good Eriksen was and he said (whilst almost apologetically chuckling) something along the lines of "he rarely gets this much space". He even said "say thanks for the open tactics" at the end - I don't think he meant it as an intentional dig at us, he was just so shocked/perplexed at our naivety.

Brady and Hendrick were awful and have been all year. Brady’s deliveries have been generally brutal.

I think the criticism of Christie is a bit harsh. The rebound off the post was a bit jammy the way it went off his trailing leg. I didn’t notice whether he could have recovered quicker after the Ward breakaway. He got forward better than most of our players. I still think it’s a real shame that Doherty and Cunningham have been overlooked for so long but I think Ward’s errors were far more telling.

For years I’ve been saying that central midfield just doesn’t do what central midfield is supposed to do. Theirs got between our lines regularly. We never did to theirs. Sisto(?) would frequently carry the ball and attack space. He wanted it, always. Ours ran away from it. We are afraid to develop play through the middle. We can work the ball wide reasonably well but often too slow.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

This team are tightrope walkers and not necessarily good ones - when they make it all the way to the other side, they look heroic. When they fall off, they look idiotic.

So many feelings on tonight but for some reason I can't stop thinking about those half-time subs and our consistent inability to implement any kind of plan B.

No-one may like plan A but we can surely all agree that it basically comes down to not conceding and nicking a goal.

Against Wales at home, we needed a plan B. Didn't have it.

Against Serbia at home, we need a plan B. Didn't have it.

Before tonight, it wouldn't have taken a genius to work out there was a realistic chance we would go in at half-time one goal behind and needing two. So O'Neill responds by taking off two workhorse, combative midfielders for two passers who can't tackle butter.

Now, I appreciate the gamble inherent in this move. But how can we move from one tactical extreme (compact shape, defensive mentality, physical intensity) to another (passers, players looking for space, possession and interplay)? How does that make sense? Who was going to win the ball for us to play with it? Hendrick, who looked gassed after 30 minutes? Brady playing (please for the last time ever) in deep central midfield?

I almost think O'Neill saw us own the ball for 10 minutes before half-time and thought Denmark would sit back and let us have it...

I don't buy the game was over after 45 minutes, although we had dug ourselves a nice comfy hole. I just wish we had an idea of how to respond to the foreseeable situation we found ourselves in.

Was a bit surprised with the first 45, just expected us to wrap up and wait for the second half to go for a goal. Instead it was more like Serbia - thrash and metal, physicality, bite, pressure. At least we went for it, but, as ever, needed so much more composure. The problem with revving these players up is they're all the more likely to overheat.

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True, there was no plan B but there was no good plan A. The game plan was doomed to fail before a ball was kicked, no plan B could have salvaged that mess. We just happened to score a goal but we were shapeless with players having random strange roles. Denmark thrived in that chaos, the space and created chance after chance, our players ended up making mistake after mistake. Then O'Neill completely self destructs and sabotages the team in order to save the team.

Blame is the wrong word for Christie. It's more a case of him lacking positional awareness - this part of his game is not up to international standard. And there are plenty of examples of that last night. He looks good going forward, had a great run at the start of the second half, but on the back-foot and dealing with 60 yard cross field balls .....

The warning signs with Christie have been there for awhile though. Thinking back to the Belarus game in Cork.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

O'Neill's luck finally ran out. If you play primitive hoofball stuff like that you'll get found out sooner or later. At least football won tonight - passing, ball control, possession and movement - they way it should be played. The World Cup will be much improved by us not being there. As Dunphy said, nobody plays like Ireland anymore. We've been suffering this rubbish for years, first Trappatoni, now the current incumbent. It's killing us. I gave up going to games years ago. We need a new manager and we need to start playing proper football.

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Once you start quoting Dunphy and state you stopped going to support your country years ago, you lose all credibility. Apparently your team has not only to entertain you, play "proper football" and be successful before you start supporting them! Go and follow the mega rich clubs then like Manchester City and Barcelona. Those of us who follow and support Ireland will continue to do so no matter what as much of the crowd did at the end of the game. All I ever demand of a team I support is 100% from the players and no one can deny that this team has given that.

Of our relative comparisons, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, none is going to the World Cup and two didn't even get to play-offs. Scotland has tried to play "proper football" for years - where have they got with that? We made a play-off as the 4th seed in the group !! That is some achievement. We broke an almost 30 year hoodoo not once but twice in winning away at Austria and Cardiff. I was at both and they will stay in my memory for the rest of my life.

Last night was a disaster but had nothing to do with the style of play. Basic defensive errors and one was in fact caused by Ward attempting to play "proper football" and lost possession instead of playing it down the line. With a bit of luck we might have been 2 up before the Danes scored.

I was surprised by the introduction of McGeady and the removal of Meyler and Arter and it did smack a bit of panic but MON took a gamble and it failed. We had a great Euros under MON and a failed play off. For us, I think that is success. The manner of defeat is shocking but I'd prefer that to an Henry type situation.

It will be hard for MON to come back from this because we have seen it with managers before, once on a slippery slope, it's hard to stop sliding downwards. The first 4 games of the next campaign will be crucial. Poor results like Trap and McCarthy, and he'll go but for the moment I will continue to support him and the team.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

If he just stood at the post instead of kicking the ball into the net who knows how this conversation would be going. I can't for the life of me figure out why his body is positioned the way it is. The worst goal we've ever conceded.

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Did the ball not rebound off the post and then went in off the back of Christie's leg?
There was a long string of culpability for that goal starting with defending the short corner, myself I though Meyler was caught cold, no anticipation and made a powder puff challenge.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Did the ball not rebound off the post and then went in off the back of Christie's leg?
There was a long string of culpability for that goal starting with defending the short corner, myself I though Meyler was caught cold, no anticipation and made a powder puff challenge.

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Yep - if he is standing on the line with his back to goal like he should be then its never an issue. In fact if there was no-one on the post at all it probably would have been cleared. A colossal error.

Bloody heck, didn't realise we were that bad. We made Denmark look like Brazil of the 70's. Surely there isn't that big a gap between us for 11 v 11. The tactics for me were shocking. It seemed like they were all psyched up to go out and run themselves into the ground, and I think that is what they did for the first 20 minutes. Where was the composure, ball retention? proper build up play? The only chances we made were on the break or set pieces. We were the home team and after a good away result I was really hoping for a more adventurous lineup. Either Houllihan behind the front man or two up top with Long giving at least some real pace. The one area where I thought the Danes looked most suspect was in defence, but we made it easy for them. This isn't hindsight, as I said I was really hoping for a more adventurous lineup and approach, not a team just racing around everywhere trying to block as if it was american football or some other game. I do think we have some decent players, Hendricks, Brady (probably at left back), Hogan, Long (when confident), O Dowda looks good, McClean can do a job, Cunningham is worth a shout and we definitely need to give some of the younger lads a try now.

Can't be watching that type of football, I don't mind negative football at times, but that was just shocking, headless chickens everywhere, and I lay more of the blame for that on the management than the players. Something has to change for sure. The sooner Christy Hughton becomes available and can be persuaded to come on board, the better.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Yep - if he is standing on the line with his back to goal like he should be then its never an issue. In fact if there was no-one on the post at all it probably would have been cleared. A colossal error.

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Are we talking about the same incident? The first Danish goal? if it is then you need to look at it again.
Christie wasn't on the post, he was in the middle of the goal, had made an effort at full stretch to stop the ball, the ball rebounded off the post, hit his outstretched leg into the net. Zero culpability. Meyler was the nr 1 culprit.

Was it not Arter who was nutmegged easily? Meyler was covering Eriksen out wide? But I wouldn't fault Christie. Randolph was correctly drawn to the front post one the Dane broke into our box. It'd have been daft for Christie not to move in a bit.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Meyler was the nr 1 culprit.

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No he wasn't. And neither was Christie. Hendrick was asleep.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

No he wasn't. And neither was Christie. Hendrick was asleep.

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When you think about how bad everything and everyone was last night, management and players, all this arguing over individuals to blame seems a bit irrelevant.

I kept mentioning to the boy during the first half, how frustrating it was watching every player point the finger and give out to some one else, again childish and for me just shows up individuals with no confidence or real courage.

You need to point out when something is amiss, otherwise how do we improve? Granted mid-game things can get heated and become less than diplomatic or encouraging.

With the goal from the corner, it wasn't was a piece of superior skill that scored the goal. It was down to a failure of duty/ lapse in concentration. It happens but frustrating in such a game.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Once you start quoting Dunphy and state you stopped going to support your country years ago, you lose all credibility. Apparently your team has not only to entertain you, play "proper football" and be successful before you start supporting them! Go and follow the mega rich clubs then like Manchester City and Barcelona. Those of us who follow and support Ireland will continue to do so no matter what as much of the crowd did at the end of the game. All I ever demand of a team I support is 100% from the players and no one can deny that this team has given that.

Of our relative comparisons, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, none is going to the World Cup and two didn't even get to play-offs. Scotland has tried to play "proper football" for years - where have they got with that? We made a play-off as the 4th seed in the group !! That is some achievement. We broke an almost 30 year hoodoo not once but twice in winning away at Austria and Cardiff. I was at both and they will stay in my memory for the rest of my life.

Last night was a disaster but had nothing to do with the style of play. Basic defensive errors and one was in fact caused by Ward attempting to play "proper football" and lost possession instead of playing it down the line. With a bit of luck we might have been 2 up before the Danes scored.

I was surprised by the introduction of McGeady and the removal of Meyler and Arter and it did smack a bit of panic but MON took a gamble and it failed. We had a great Euros under MON and a failed play off. For us, I think that is success. The manner of defeat is shocking but I'd prefer that to an Henry type situation.

It will be hard for MON to come back from this because we have seen it with managers before, once on a slippery slope, it's hard to stop sliding downwards. The first 4 games of the next campaign will be crucial. Poor results like Trap and McCarthy, and he'll go but for the moment I will continue to support him and the team.

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With all due respect Owls Fan, your attitude is exactly what is wrong with the game in Ireland and exactly what gotus to last night's performance. One hundred percent is the least we expect from the players, but would it kill the players or manager to stop hoofing the ball game in and game out or to string two passes together. Many years ago Soren Lerby said he wasn't interested in playing in England because he didn't want to watch the ball fly over his head for 90 minutes every Saturday. That was 25 plus years ago. Now between Danish and Irish football, which one do you think has progressed better over the years?

When the game plan is to invite the opposition on to you but keep it tight and hope to nick a goal, and you then fail to keep it tight, you are in for a long hard game.

Allowing a two on one from a corner smacks of woeful organisation .

Pretty sure there were some close calls of this in the first leg as well .

A team that is going to play ultra defensive cannot be allowing these or nearly ones either .