Ratings Anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
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Ratings Anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
The Collective: Twelve of the 15 involved in Georgia (Darren Randolph, Aiden McGeady and Roy Keane apart) were time thieves. That is they stole two hours of their lives we'll never get back. For those of us who were utterly shocked by how bad England could be against Iceland, this was way way worse. If we play like that for the remainder of the campaign, we are as sure as manure not going to Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
The Manager: The 64K question about Martin O'Neill is this - what were his instructions to his players before they took the field in Tblisi? And what were his instructions to his players before they played Austria in Dublin?
If the answer is that he told them to play hoof ball for 90 minutes (160 minutes to be exact, until Hoolahan came on at the Aviva) then he should hand in his resignation on Monday morning.
And if he didn't tell them that - if he gave them some other variation of a hoof ball game, then why on God's green earth, having witnessed the muck of the first 45 minutes in Georgia, did he not say to his players "Look lads we need to play differently".
He saw it the same as we did, and he was happy to let it continue.
Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane played in teams that passed other teams to death. How did their team get to play such 'alien' football?
The Players.
Darren Randolph (7): Blameless for the goal and his kicking was superb. But therein perhaps lies a window into Ireland's tactics for yesterday's game. Every time Randolph was called upon to kick the ball out, he didn't look to play it short. He chose the long high ball every time. Instructed to do this beforehand perhaps?
Cyrus Christie (4): As bad as anyone else at the back in that he hoofed it all day. Was not helped by a midfield who showed their backsides to our defenders instead of coming looking for the short ball. Abiding memory of Christie's performance will be in the 94th minute, with a mass of green shirts waiting in the box for his cross, he decided to try to beat the last man and ran the ball out of play. Very unintelligent.
Shane Duffy (5): Great goal, and almost bagged a second. But hoofed it all day long. Could he not see that such a tactic resulted in the ball coming back at him as soon as it left his boot?
Ciaran Clark (4): Carbon copy of Duffy
Stephen Ward (4): Carbon copy of above two
Glenn Whelan (10): Great player. Came short all day long. Built numerous moves from midfield. Played better than Pirlo ever did. Set up at least 15 chances with his brilliant diagonal and reverse passes. Will be surprised if he is not snapped up by Barca or Real Madrid in the January transfer window.
Harry Arter (4): Newcomer to the scene and capable of a whole mountain more than he displayed in Georgia. Question is why did he not come short for passes from his defenders. Why did he not demand more from his midfield colleagues? Why......because it is very likely that he was instructed to watch the ball fly over his head and then try to pick up the pieces.
Remaining Players
Robbie Brady (4): A midfielder missing in action. As culpable as anyone.
John Walters (3): The lumberjack forward that we all love. His time (ie the type of forward that he is) had come and gone 30 years ago, yet we still persist with tried and failed methods.
Ah but sure who else do we have? It's the age old question. The answer is we do have others who are playing at a much lower level but who will hold the ball up. Don't get me wrong, John has scored us some crucial goals over the years and always gives 110 per cent, but I would be prepared to go as far down the ranks as Graham Burke of Rovers, and I'm not a big LOI fan) in order to change our method of getting the ball to our front men and making it stick.
Shane Long (3): Tried. But if the focus of our attacking game was on him winning the ball in the air and causing the Georgian defence problems, he failed miserably. Had a great chance to make it 2-0 - a more cushioned volley would have done it, but failed. Such are the margins of good goalscorers and average ones. Ultimately he is as one dimensional a player as John Walters. He'll nick you a goal every ten games but won't do much more.
James McClean (4): Tried, perhaps more than most. But was lost in a tide of white shirts coming incessantly towards the Irish goal. Missed a glorious chance to make it 2-0 shortly after the opener.
Aiden McGeady (6): Held the ball and ran at the opposition. Wow what a concept? He changed the game in our favor somewhat after coming on. Had a bad miss at the end although the ball would not sit up for him. Imagine (Mr O'Neill) what sort of an impact McGeady would have had had he started?
Daryl Murphy (N/A): Not applicable in that he shouldn't be in the team. He is more of Walters and Long only with less ability.
They were as luck as they'll ever be. No team, not even Andorra or San Marino would ever gift them that much possession. If they did their manager would risk being fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
The team were sent out poorly prepared with a negative game plan and ended up a shambles in the first half, as worse as our worse evers.
The 2nd half taken on its own was okay, the longer we endured the the more the Georgians energy faded, as Ger quipped, all that running around with the ball took its toll on the skilful Georgians.
The one point is okay (seeing as the Georgians are known to come good in september), it's the performance and tactics that don't bode well for le crunch game v Serbia.
I kinda expect a recovery though.
You're on the ball here and you also qualify your post with a nod towards the conversion rate. So what you have done there is make a balanced post underpinned by actual knowledge of the actual circumstances in our underage sides. On the other hand, the wafer-think knowledge of the 42 writer saw him refer to that one statistic regarding Irish-born players and little else. Torturous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
Have we produced some terrific talent though? I mean - where are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
If you go back a couple of years, Dan Cleary and Alex O'Hanlon both scored for Liverpool in the UEFA Youth League; Cleary went on to make the bench in a Europa League tie. Now they're at Solihull Moors and St Pat's. Fiacre Kelleher (5 years at Celtic) is at Solihull too.
Here's a random foot thread from a while back - an under-21s squad from 2013. These players should be starting to impose themselves on the senior team now. Shane Duffy is the only one who's been capped - and he's played fewer than 10 Premiership games. Matt Doherty at Wolves - you could make a case he should be in the squad, but even then, he's a second flight player. But mostly, they're now at Colchester, Woking, St Johnstone, the bench at Ross County, Bury.
None of that stacks up with the notion that we're producing "terrific", "outstanding" or "fabulous" players.
We have fewer players in the Premiership than ever before. The vast majority of the 21s squad - 10 of 13 with wiki articles - are English-born; nothing against 2G players - but clearly there's issues with the game here if there's so few Irish-born players coming through.
There's no point playing blind to this any more and thinking we're about to turn the corner.
Doing Martin's job for him on Tuesday:
The manager was once the best in these islands. What the hell has happened to him?
Here is a team and a game plan for you on Tuesday. If you have a better one please let us know (maybe you do?).
Team:
Randolph, Christie, Duffy, Ward, Brady, McGeady, Arter, Hoolahan, McClean, Walters, Horgan (an injury withdrawal should facilitate Maguire's call up. It would be nice to see him play alongside Walters)
Game Plan:
Three at the back with McGeady and Brady coming for passes from midfield to accept passes and build moves. Crucial that they do this and not isolate themselves on the wings. Allow McGeady and Brady to run through the middle at the Serbs. Harry Arter, sitting in front of the back three should be the outlet pass. Enter Hoolahan - around the center circle - who spreads the play to wingers McClean, Horgan. Run at the full backs and use Walters as a decoy (instead of hitting the high cross to the big man, pull it back to the edge of the area where hopefully Arter, Hoolahan will be arriving). It's a plan. And it's light years better than the plan on Saturday.
You make a good point Stu. But what is your answer to the problem. I'm speaking honestly, not being conceited. Do you believe that we should send our young lads to Holland, Belgium, Germany, Denmark instead of to the graveyard of English football.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If all those kids are so good at youth level, how do they become so bad? Something is thwarting their growth. It wouldn't happen at such an alarming rate in say Spain or Italy.
If they had a Glen McCauley or Troy Parrott on their hands, you can be sure they'd nurture him to the highest level.
They were as luck as they'll ever be. No team, not even Andorra or San Marino would ever gift them that much possession. If they did their manager would risk being fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
We need to grow a professional environment in Ireland. English clubs aren't interested in our players any more now that they can have any young player from around the world. We need to invest heavily in the LoI, spice it up so new clubs can/want to join, and take control of our youth development ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I think our players suffer hugely due to the lack of a professional option here. Professional development between, say, 18 and 22, is crucial I think, and if a player doesn't go to England, then they're going to lose out big time as a result. Yes, players like Andy Boyle, Conor Sammon, etc, show you can stay at home and go on to play internationally - but then Boyle is 26 and only starting to come through the ranks now, so we're way behind development-wise.
Interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Actually, I think I'll have to take that back - it does cross-reference some similar stats to Sadlier's article, but then it also quotes the article itself. Not as bad as I'd thought on a first glance.
Here is the Sadlier article for comparison.
Massive overreaction on here to an admittedly disappointing result. Talk of going completely new formations with 2 days preparation or dropping stalwarts on the evidence of 1 bad game. Crazy stuff.
It was bad but Georgia aren't as bad as their ranking would suggest. They are a particularly hard nut to crack at home as other sides equivalent to us have found in recent years.
We pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and throw the kitchen sink at Serbia on Tuesday. That is all that is required here.
Three bad games in this group actually, not one. And two of them weren't just bad, they ranked (at least Saturday's performance did) with the worst international displays of any team ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
There was so much that could have been done differently on Saturday. If the plan was to invite them on us, the plan should also have included players for a quick counter attack (ie McGeady and Horgan or McClean). With Walters in the team you are never going to spring a lightning counter attack are you? Shane Long started - as he should have done. But after 45 minutes it called for a change of attacking ideas - Sean Maguire maybe? I know he's brand new in upper tier football but he is the only viable option we have.
Martin O'Neil's Ireland are horribly unwatchable. It's like torture watching his side play.
American football is an option. People scoff at MLS, saying it is for has beens etc, but what they do not realize is there are tons of young lads who are coached properly in the US, by American and foreign coaches, and play to a very good standard. I have seen enough of MLS to say it, the top teams anyway, are better than most Championship teams. It would take a bit of a departure for our 14 and 15 year olds to want to go to America, but it would pay dividends in the long run. I have no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Top MLS teams are still quite poor IMO.
And when you talk about a 14/15 year old going to America, you're talking about uprooting a whole family and sending them to the far side of the world for a 1 in a million shot.
It really isn't a practical option - certainly not one we should be actively pursuing anyway.
Personally I thought Georgia were unlucky not to beat us in Cardiff - after we were the better team in the first half they were battering us for the last half hour. They seem to have a bit of a defensive problem and are not the best organised but are excellent at retaining possession, which lends itself in turn to being quite hard to beat simply because you can't get the ball off them.
I think it's quite possible we may drop points over there and three points would be a considerable achievement.