And the Denmark game was behind closed doors.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
After the away defeat to Denmark they threw their hat at the last qualification series. They will improve big time from that. I'd be surprised if either Wales or Austria won there.
I honestly don't see how that shambles of a defence, which crumbled under any sort of pressure, will hold out against both Austria and Wales. And look at how many great chances they spurned at the other end.
I know they've a few young players coming through, and maybe we got them at a good time before they're really bedded in and confident (like the keeper last night), but still. Serbia weren't great at all.
Fair enough and they weren't great - but Kolarov and Matic will add a lot to that team and as a young team I'd expect them to improve - its not guaranteed tbf, and Austria go there in October so we will see!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
So when was the last time we had a good away performance? The play off in France I think and I am hard pressed to think of another over the past 10 years. We have had many good results but performances where we get the ball down and play: I am scratching my head to think of another. We do what we do. We scrap and that has got us through many a sticky game but it doesn't always work and we still await that magic away win against a rival in a group. I am not sure why people are surprised.
I am delighted with the 2-2 result. I don't see Murphy being even remotely on a par with Waters. The former's ball control and pace are far in excess of the robust but limited Murphy. It's great that he scored and the knock on to Long was excellent but he is at best an average player. A fit Walters is streets ahead of him. Quinn is now the new Messi after his cameo appearance. The truth is Serbia did an Ireland when they went ahead and paid the price by falling back. I don't think it had anything to do with the advent of Quinn.
When we were 0-1 ahead, I asked my mate whether he would take a draw. We both agreed we would. Perhaps that mentality is also in the Irish team. I don't agree with MON that we deserved the draw but in life you don't always get what you deserve.
Some harsh criticism for JOSH on the goal. Very difficult night for defenders at both ends. He didn't let his man turn and get a shot on goal but Coleman was sucked in thinking that the opponent was getting away from JOSH and then the ball broke to Coleman's man. The back 4 were under huge pressure all night and I thought they coped well.
The penalty - when I saw it live I said peno. I think there was contact but they probably would have scored later anyway with the way the game was going.
Randolph motm ! At least two major gaffs that almost resulted in goals.
Gutted we didn't win a match that was there for the taking. We should have learned from the game against Italy and the first half against France that we can frighten teams if we go at them but we reverted to type last night, decided we couldn't compete up the pitch and sat back. Fortune favours the brave but with a few exceptions, our squad isn't brave enough and that's what needs to be addressed by the management team. Had we attacked them I believe we would have won by a couple of goals but as it was, we could easily have had something similar to the 5-2 hiding Cyprus gave us. I didn't think Whelan was a bad as some people say but we do need someone like Artur to drive us forward rather than a defensive midfielder whose job is to sit in front of the defense.
I know conditions last night had a big effect on the game but I cant think of a more jittery goalkeeping performance than Randolphs in any Ireland game. McClean also had his poorest game in the shirt. Hendrick, Brady and Ward were the only ones to come away with any credit for me.
One other disappointing aspect was the bench actually. O'Kane, O'Dowda, Pearce and McCarthy (who was injured) were left out. And obviously Arter and Christie didn't come off the bench. So still no sense of bringing newer players into the fold. I still don't think the players coming through are up to the standard of those in even recent campaigns, but I'm not sure how we're going to build a new team without giving guys game time. Last night must have been one of the oldest teams to have represented us? I make it an average age of 29.1, and 29.5 by the end.
All in all, I think the point is almost the only positive we can take out of last night's match.
Well if we are just looking at the last several games, Walters was arguably the worst player on the pitch against Sweden, granted he was unfit and shouldn't have been playing, and Murphy was one of our better players against Italy and France. He came off the bench last night, and along with Quinn, done more in 15 minutes than arguably anyone else did - except maybe Hendrick. He performed a thankless task in Bosnia due to the tactics and you can't really be too hard on him - unless you are blinkered. His hold up play was one of the main reasons we came away with a result against Germany in Dublin.
His goal for us has been coming. He has done everything but score, unlucky several times.
You can look at the performances when Walters + Long play in Scotland and when Walters + Murphy play against Scotland in Dublin, and then look at the performances when Murphy + Long played in the Euros and the 15 minutes tonight and IDK how anyone could think Walters would be a better option at this stage.
I am completely at a loss as to what he has offered for large parts of the last 12 months yet he seems to be guaranteed his place.
Even when he is playing wide, he never gets any crosses in, and when he does, they never beat the first man, his link-up play is average, he has no pace, he is a fundamental part of our long ball strategy yet he creates more fouls than he does win the ball - just look at last night.
He usually does a good covering job for the full backs but he didn't even do that last night.
We can't even do anything on the counter attack when he's on the ball because he slows things down to a snails pace.
If we want to be a more progressive team we have to start doing better than Walters and Whelan. I just let out a groan whenever I see his name in the team sheet because I know what the football is going to be like.
IDK how anyone could possibly think Walters is better for the long ball tactics or for the link-up play after last night.
But I'm not surprised.
He has got a lot of credit in the bank. God forbid any striker put in the performances he has been lately and continue to get selected.
I have no complaints with the penalty at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
No way Randolph MOTM. That was his worst game yet for us, but in fairness his late save was very important.
Two goals against Bosnia at home and MOTM against Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
I don't agree that it is baffling it's the ebb and flow of most every away game we have against this type of opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Serbia thought they could hold onto their lead, they sat back, we had space, we weren't being closed down with the same intensity, we could bring the ball out of defense, we looked good, set pieces are us, we scored, then they woke up again and pressed for the winner.
.
It's obvious we don't have hardworking football artists like Modric but this "we don't have the players" is total nonsense, total bull, that's saying we don't have players to pass and receive the ball and we don't have the players to press high up the pitch.
What we don't have is a team who are coached to play football with better tactics, better retention, how to hold a high line and still defend.
Couldn't agree more with this. Hamburg, despite the prestige associated with their name, are relegation fodder in Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
And Bayern Munich winning virtually every game for the last few seasons doesn't say a lot for the general strength of the league.
Randolph won MOTM tonight too, and he had a poor game IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Walters was the best player on the pitch that night against Germany.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Agreed. One of our most consistent performers in Euro qualifying too.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
In fairness, with Robbie Keane retired, TOWK has to turn his blinkered vitriol on someone else.
That's at least 5 of us who feel that way. That being the case among Ireland fans it must at least have been one of those ones that is given as often as not. If it had been Ivanovic on Shane Long we would all have been screaming for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Walters is the first name on the teamsheet and with good reason. He was by far and away our best player last campaign.
was he touched before he started falling over? don't think he was so no pen in my bookQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Thought it was dive and I'd think the same if it was one of our players, even if I would be completely chuffed if we got a peno off the back of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
My take at the time was the Serbian was hitting the floor as soon as Walters came into his proximity. Walters might have brushed his back but he was bringing his hands up, there was no decisive contact that would send a player down and the only contact of consequence came when the Serbian's right leg struck Walters' leg - when he was halfway to the ground.
We could argue that Walters was looking a bit clumsy, was rushing in late but he still has to actually foul the guy.
A decent result but one of the worst performances that I have seen from us.
There is a real mental block with us. We got the early goal and were terrible until we went 2-1 down. We then had a spell where we were the better team until we got the equaliser. After that, we returned to type rather than think about going for the win, our mindset at 2-2 was the solid draw. That could cost us. A good away draw is the type of result that gets you to an expanded euros, but a world cup qualification is a different animal. We need to take 10-12 points from Austria, Wales and Serbia by my reckoning to get first. We need to focus on that because there will be better teams than those three in a playoff - a look at some of the other groups means that you are going to get 2-3 really top nations in a playoff.
The good news is that we have on paper a decent team, even if we were appalling last night. We have guts in abundance and we are never out of a game. MON needs to find a place for Arter and/or Wes. Wes was needed when we were 1-0 up to get us on the ball and give us the option of a go-to man in midfield. Arter looks like he might be a better long-term candidate throughout the campaign.
The bad news is that there is a mindset in our team that doesn't seem to truly believe that they can go to places like Belgrade or Vienna and win. I am also concerned long-term that while there is a decent enough chance that MON could get us to World Cup, he could leave an almighty job for his successor - we can talk all we like that it is his job to play the best team and it is a world cup campaign after all, but there are quite a few young lads that could be in or around the squad, even if they are not starting. O'Dowda is a welcome exception. For example, what do we have to gain by the likes of McShane being in the squad.
I saw a bit of the Georgia-Austria game and Georgia looked very dangerous. They deserved at least a draw. I thought Austria were very poor but it's a good result for them. I'd fear Georgia more than Austria from what I saw. Hopefully, they will be well out of the running, by the time we play in Tiblisi.