Debate - Future of Youth Development in Irish Football

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The clubs that will adapt are the ones who decide to offer players something after the age of 16, after the likelihood of selling them to England for a few grand is gone. A lot of them will never have even imagined there'd ever be a reason to do such a thing.

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There is an underlying assumption though that the LOI clubs will somehow discover functionality in this academy structure adventure and to a degree higher than the established Leinster amateur clubs For instance years ago in Switzerland, their FA had to forcibly impose licensed coaches to fill out the all the age groups in the professional clubs and paid for it with a few zillion francs (unclaimed nazi gold). It's just a fixation with most clubs in the top leagues (no matter what country) to gamble 99.9% of resources on the success of the senior team.

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Originally Posted by geysir

There is an underlying assumption though that the LOI clubs will somehow discover functionality in this academy structure adventure and to a degree higher than the established Leinster amateur clubs For instance years ago in Switzerland, their FA had to forcibly impose licensed coaches to fill out the all the age groups in the professional clubs and paid for it with a few zillion francs (unclaimed nazi gold). It's just a fixation with most clubs in the top leagues (no matter what country) to gamble 99.9% of resources on the success of the senior team.

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Well you're only really talking about the Dublin clubs as many of the LOI clubs aren't in areas with strong schoolboy teams, and of the ones that are Galway is already teasing out that relationship. Cabinteely came from schoolboy football so obviously they've got the leg-work done, Rovers have spent the last few years completely redoing the underage structure, and Pats, Shels and UCD have shown they can at least identify players over 16 and develop them to a better level, so they at least have the capability to do it down the age groups.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Well you're only really talking about the Dublin clubs as many of the LOI clubs aren't in areas with strong schoolboy teams, and of the ones that are Galway is already teasing out that relationship. Cabinteely came from schoolboy football so obviously they've got the leg-work done, Rovers have spent the last few years completely redoing the underage structure, and Pats, Shels and UCD have shown they can at least identify players over 16 and develop them to a better level, so they at least have the capability to do it down the age groups.

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We were only talking about the Dublin amateur clubs and their alleged imminent demise because of the LOI clubs developing their underage academies and leagues. My point here was more about, can the LOI clubs do so much better than the existing established amateur clubs in Dublin, that the amateur clubs will struggle to exist in the near future. I don't think so. The LOI clubs may do a better job eventually but even if they do, I just can't foresee a club like Wayside Celtic folding.
I'd expect improved coaching of young kids from the age of 8 onwards will result in increase in quantity and quality. It's a positive development that will benefit all of football.

Well I don't accept the premise that the DDSL clubs will struggle to exist either, but it will certainly lessen their power and their access to all the best players.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...-now-1.2558918

very good article, poo poo's a lot of the other article with Dokter Dokter.

Gb has a future in journalism! Be good to get someone like him involved coaching the coaches, given he has experienced both setups(Ireland and England, professional and well Amateur).

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Gb has a future in journalism!

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He has a future in book writing if the length of that bad boy is anything to go by! I must take a proper look later.

It seems a pretty confused article to be honest. Uses a lot of words to basically say very little. Not surprised Paul O'Shea think it's great.

What did you make of the LOI idea Charlie?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

What did you make of the LOI idea Charlie?

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Barrett's? It's nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Barrett's? It's nonsense.

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What's nonsense? he makes a lot of very good points from my reading.

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Originally Posted by hoops1

What's nonsense? he makes a lot of very good points from my reading.

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He wants a salary cap of €400 a week (pushing players to England where, coincidentally, he's an agent who specialises in getting LOI players trials) and reduce Dublin to three teams (one more than Louth). And he bangs on for about 15 paragraphs about how it shouldn't be all about winning but it's should still be a lot about winning, then he moans about players not having enough technical development, then says we shouldn't be adopting formations that help overcome technical deficiencies, then spends the rest of it talking about 'heart.' He has a couple of decent points that hundreds of other people with an ounce of common sense have come up with before, and a load of self-serving waffle that should bring him a few new clients.

I thought it was a bit waffly as well to be honest, he could have cut in half and it would have still dragged on. And the LOI stuff just seemed bizarre.

Barrett was on Newstalk while ago discussing his article, I only heard the first couple of minutes but I presume it'll be on their podcast for anybody that's interested (not Charlie I take it :)) .

The impression i got from the Ruud was that he had a good overview of the Irish football culture, knows in general what's needed to develop football coaching etc and has come up with a way to move forward with respect to the existing structures in ireland. It's not perfect but there is momentum.


Graham asks
"how can these clubs maintain academies while running a first team in a professional league?"

The answer is, not as Graham asserts to cut the senior team costs, seeing as LOI clubs are already operating at well below the norm standards of finance. Rather the coaching fees can be shared between the FAI, the club and the parents. The kid becomes a club member and pays a membership fee which covers a good part of the coaching.

Kids are paying fees already of up to 380 Euro. That’s the rate for two clubs I know of. I know one other where its dearer. You won't get any more out of the kids or parents.
The coaches at these clubs are volunteers and The kids have to buy their own tracksuits

Eur380 pa is about right for training with licensed coaches who get paid, but off the scale for coaches who don't get paid.

Join Wayside Celtic, Eur 230 pa including Wayside tracksuit, shorts & socks along with new gear bag with boot compartment :)

Ha, 70 pound membership for senior team here in Gaelic, shorts, socks, tracksuit, gear bag and training top!

The coach runs his own gyms as well. WTF is 380 for volunteer coaches.....do they get food after training or something? :D

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

He has a future in book writing if the length of that bad boy is anything to go by! I must take a proper look later.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It seems a pretty confused article to be honest. Uses a lot of words to basically say very little. Not surprised Paul O'Shea think it's great.

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Just got round to reading that now. Dire stuff - not an ounce of coherence anywhere in it. It's like something generated by an app (or a room of chimps with a typewriter). And don't get me started on one sentence paragraphs... It's like the sub-editors thought 'ah sod it, i couldn't be bothered reading this let alone editing it.'

Ruud Dokter has been given a new five-year deal by the FAI.

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Originally Posted by The Examiner

Meanwhile FAI High Performance Director, Ruud Dokter, has been given a new five-year contract.

The extension means the Dutchman, who joined the association in 2013 from the Dutch FA, will continue his work on the Player Development and Emerging Talent programmes as well as other initiatives until 2020.

“It is important for me to say that in the two and a half years I’ve been here I feel that so much has been accomplished and I didn’t hesitate for a second to renew my contract with the FAI,” he said.

“There are many challenges ahead and we are focused on continuing to make improvements to the development of players.

“We’ve achieved much already including rolling out the first two recommendations of the FAI Player Development Plan, improving the Emerging Talent Programme structures, and the completion of the FAI Women’s Strategic Plan 2015-18.

“I see many opportunities. I’m looking forward to the coming years with the FAI."

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West Ham (former) porn barons to pump money into Irish football via an academy at Shamrock Rovers?

Discuss...