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Rising the crowd and the players at that time was probably a poor decision on his part. What you want after going down to 10 men after an incident like that is calm and focus. Pumping up the adrenaline whilst a man down seemed the wrong thing to be doing entirely. Works well if you've just conceded a dubious goal but they really needed to try take it beyond the 70-75th minute without conceding.
It wasn't special in one sense that Madrid didn't look like champions. I think we already knew that Man U were far away from being champions material.Quote:
Originally Posted by KK77
Many years later, my pride levels still grow about how we (and supernatural forces) handled the Dutch in 2001 with 10 men in that crunch game.
The red card last night was a game changer, Madrid already on the offensive grew in effect, Modric was on the pitch growing in influence and Man U couldn't adjust fast enough.
Chelsea weren't champions material at any stage last year either, until about 80% of the way into the penalty shoot-out!
Red card was definitely a game changer but I've rarely seen a team just down to 10 men be affected so badly and so quickly. United still had 3 or 4 great chances to score and with their track record had they scored one goal even as late as 90 minutes (there were 5 added on) anything could have happened. Rooney's was gilt-edged.
Modric's goal was superb.
Who'd want to be a referee? Ferdinand's reaction of clapping in to the face of the ref at the end was pathetic. I wonder how Ferdinand would feel IF he made a mistake and someone did that to him? Referees have to make judgement calls all the time and being human, they get a lot wrong but most correct. For instance, last night Wednesday scored against Watford. The ball crossed the line and it was stopped when it was over the line by a hand of a Watford player. Goal or peno? Neither given. Wednesday manager rants. The team may be relegated because of this but while we have humans refereeing games this will happen. Personally I think Nani saw the Real player at the last second but decided to leave the foot in. I can understand why the red was given and it is a very brave decision. I can also understand why 85% of refs wouldn't give a red. The commentators said it should be a yellow? Surely it should be nothing or a red? If it was a ball coming over his head and he didn't see the Real player as they say, then why a yellow? It was either an accident or deliberate.
Delighted to see Ferguson unable to bully the foreign officials like he does the English officials.
Game changing ? WHo knows? There was still a long way to go in the game and we have no idea how it would have turned out. I would have been very surprised if Madrid didn't score even against 11. Mind you up until then United had been reasonably comfortable. I didn't see Keane on the ITV Panel but I understand he might still bear a grudge (shock horror) against Fergie from his comments.
We don't have crystal balls, that's why most would say/good guess/ probably/ that the red card was a game changer.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I agree with the rest of Owls Fans' post though.
I always say to those (like Radio 5 Live this morning - though I didn't talk to my radio) who say that these decisions are becoming increasingly crucial to get right by video replays etc. because there's so much money at stake, that they've got it the wrong way around. I see it as being that there shouldn't be so much money at stake on something that so obviously hinges on human beings being right.
Anyway, had it gone the other way there'd be little fuss I reckon. "You win some & lose some / they all even out" and other such nonsense. It was tough on United as I was very impressed by them but sh1t happens.
Ferdinand's clapping in the ref's face? I'm not condoning it but I've seen worse (and from him!) and in fairness he did shake hands with all 3 officials shortly afterwards.
Ferdinand's exaggerated shaking of hands with the officials had the appearance of adding overt sarcasm to his previous insult. I thought the officials acted with dignity throughout that episode. Maybe Ferdinand was apologetic but it didn't look it.
I don't want to sound like a broken record but exaggerated hand-related gestures are classic Robbie Keane behaviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
A blind spot refereeing example from last night?
http://i.minus.com/iJ6XysLT7IFnG.gif
What I found strange is that the ref didn't book Ferdinand when he was applauding sarcastically. The match had ended but the ref still has power to issue cards.
Y'know I haven't heard one MU supporter gurning about the ref getting that wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Their high expectations I understand but their increasingly wearisome sense of entitlement -from management to players to supporters makes seeing anyone dick them chucklesome.
...and RK was right -the ref had every right to send Nani off.
Didn't notice that, but you may well be right. Maybe I was still dizzy from my cartwheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I can't open it. What incident was that?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
61minutes
Inswinging corner by Modric, Higuain header. Clearance made by Rafael off the line.
Rafael jumped up to make the block, the ball was blocked from crossing the line by his outstretched hand. Goalie was beaten.
The ball went out for another corner.
If the ref saw it, penalty for sure and red card for Rafael?
Yep, I remember that. His arm prevented a certain goal but doesn't there need to be intent? It's one of those where the mandatory red rule is an ass. I'd have called it as a penalty but no card. It wasn't a cynical handball of the line. It reminded me of Harry Kewell(?) in last world cup. Ball hit him on the arm preventing a goal, but he also got sent off when he knew next to nothing about it. A goal and a man down for an unintentional block was too much. Sometimes I just think that even if an accidental handball is so clearly handball it should be penalised by a free / penno, but without an additional punishment.
I noticed that while watching yesterday and cannot believe how much the commentators (of whom Naill Quinn was one) just flat out ignored it while the replay was happening. I actually thought i had imagined it they said so little. Bizarre. Should have been a penalty regardless of intent. No card.
Does anyone else feel the same as me with regards to the "well we should have had a penalty" argument. Im not denying that stonewallers are denied regularly but I think any team that has ever played a game can say the same thing and so it just doesnt mean anything to me when arguing about who should/could have won...
By the way, with regards to Owlsfans post about referees, i agree that people shouldnt be castigated over human errors but there should be transparency around poor decisions i.e. referees should own up after the fact when they make bad calls during games. This is unfortunately all too rare and i think that is why there is sometimes a level of frustration with referees that mutates into something needlessly ugly and agressive.
That's why I put the ? I'm not aware of what the standard/default ref reaction is. For sure it wasn't a Suarez type cast iron, dual offence, penalty + red card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'd agree that a ref should have to see the intent before he adds a red card to the penalty decision.
It's extremely poor technique from Rafael. I have a photostack somewhere of my 7 year old clearing a ball in a similar scenario (well ...minus the 70,000 spectators and against Geraldines not Real Madrid) . He actually got a header on it and then the ball hit his raised arm as it cleared. Ref pointed straight to the spot. I told him if your arms are up you don't deserve and won't get the benefit of a doubt. If that's good enough for a kid it's good enough for a numpty on 90 grand a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Forster has been as bad in these two games as he was good in the Barca games. Joe Hart has nothing to fear.
Every Celtic player is two yards slower than his counterpart. Juventus haven't had to play well in either game, and haven't played well.
I wonder why Nani spent so much time on the floor after the incident pretending to be injured unless he suspected some harsh punishment was coming.