Republic of Ireland V Czech Republic - Wednesday, 29th February 2012 - Friendly

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Really disillusioned after last night. Either we were afraid of the ball or told not to look for it too keenly. The players showed no imagination or fluency and except for the first minute anything positive came more from force of will rather than anything fluent.

Last night the Swedes, the nation most devoted to 4-4-2 in history, went 4-3-3 and apparently comprehensively outplayed Croatia. Where's our imagination or flexibility?

Our full backs offer us nothing in attack, yet this position is one of the most critical in the modern game and, in my opinion, would be the key to converting this team from a laboured, static team of hoofers to a dynamic modern football team. Did O'Shea even once look to play a measured pass or did he always chip-pass a ball 30 yards up the touchline?

I'm all for being disciplined without the ball and for a while last night we pressed the ball harder than usual, but we just reverted to our customary "stand off" tactic before long. What we do with the ball is a huge disappointment.

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have to agree with this a lot. while trapps shape and system has got us so far you cant help feeling that if we even just pressed a little further up the pitch and allowed our full backs just a little more freedom to push on we would be a far more effective team. the first 5 mins and last 15 mins of last nights game would support this.

also, i just cant fathom why he insists on our wingers playing on their wrong foot. how many times did mcgeady and duff have to check back onto their stronger foot when they got themselves into decent crossing positions?

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

have to agree with this a lot. while trapps shape and system has got us so far you cant help feeling that if we even just pressed a little further up the pitch and allowed our full backs just a little more freedom to push on we would be a far more effective team. the first 5 mins and last 15 mins of last nights game would support this.

also, i just cant fathom why he insists on our wingers playing on their wrong foot. how many times did mcgeady and duff have to check back onto their stronger foot when they got themselves into decent crossing positions?

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Spot on. Plus when McGeady does beat his man on the outside he has this tendency to sandwedge the ball with his left foot straight into the keeper's hands. When McGeady moved to the right he whipped in a beauty which O'Dea? nearly scored from. I think it's fair enough if he gets them to switch a lot during the game but I'm not a fan of the default position being leftie on the right and rightie on the left. Although if McClean forces his way in then it will probably change.

I think some people have their heads so far up Traps arse it's unreal.
It's a feckin disgrace he didn't give a couple of players on the bench at least 45 minutes. Rankings or no rankings, the friendly games are where you try out other players. Why the feck isn't he giving fringe players a start in some games? It's stupid, boring stuff.

A lot of folk are happy with things going as they are, Trap picking his strongest 11 for a friendly, not giving Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Fahey and Duffy amongst others a decent run out. When exactly are these lads going to get a game? Most people would suggest that all 5 of those names could easily be in the starting 11 ahead of whats there, but how are we going to know how they fit into the system if they aren't given a chance?

We all know what Green, Hunt, McGeady, Duff, Whelan, Andrews et all can do. We don't need to test them out more when theres others needing to be tested.

Someone please tell me, what is the use in having these lads along if they aren't going to be given enough game time? Experience training with the squad doesn't cut it for me. They need to be given game time.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

also, i just cant fathom why he insists on our wingers playing on their wrong foot. how many times did mcgeady and duff have to check back onto their stronger foot when they got themselves into decent crossing positions?

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McGeady left foot is about as good as his right.
Proven by scientific research.

Personally I prefer a winger like McGeady to use a mix of ways to get rid of the ball, cutting inside along the line into the penalty area creates the most panic, cutback to an onrushing midfielder/striker - absent from our game, cut in on the outside and have a shot or pass it on and crossing the ball high into the box.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I think some people have their heads so far up Traps arse it's unreal.
It's a feckin disgrace he didn't give a couple of players on the bench at least 45 minutes. Rankings or no rankings, the friendly games are where you try out other players. Why the feck isn't he giving fringe players a start in some games? It's stupid, boring stuff.

A lot of folk are happy with things going as they are, Trap picking his strongest 11 for a friendly, not giving Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Fahey and Duffy amongst others a decent run out. When exactly are these lads going to get a game? Most people would suggest that all 5 of those names could easily be in the starting 11 ahead of whats there, but how are we going to know how they fit into the system if they aren't given a chance?

We all know what Green, Hunt, McGeady, Duff, Whelan, Andrews et all can do. We don't need to test them out more when theres others needing to be tested.

Someone please tell me, what is the use in having these lads along if they aren't going to be given enough game time? Experience training with the squad doesn't cut it for me. They need to be given game time.

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I don't disagree - I don't think it would hurt to get more of these guys involved either but I'm fairly ambivalent, particularly in the lead up to the finals. Guess game time for the people he's most likely to have involved takes bigger priority since there's very little get together time before Croatia in June. More variety would be nice, but I'm not tearing my hair out over it simply because the manager, in fairness, has proved a willingness to get players game time.

Moreover big change-up's with inexperienced players would lessen the night and more likely see us incurring a heavy defeat (the subs who made the difference were Walters, Cox and Green after all). Friendlies don't really matter all that much if you win but, in the lead up to the finals, getting a thumping would be pretty damaging imo.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

I think some people have their heads so far up Traps arse it's unreal.
It's a feckin disgrace he didn't give a couple of players on the bench at least 45 minutes. Rankings or no rankings, the friendly games are where you try out other players. Why the feck isn't he giving fringe players a start in some games? It's stupid, boring stuff.

A lot of folk are happy with things going as they are, Trap picking his strongest 11 for a friendly, not giving Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Fahey and Duffy amongst others a decent run out. When exactly are these lads going to get a game? Most people would suggest that all 5 of those names could easily be in the starting 11 ahead of whats there, but how are we going to know how they fit into the system if they aren't given a chance?

We all know what Green, Hunt, McGeady, Duff, Whelan, Andrews et all can do. We don't need to test them out more when theres others needing to be tested.

Someone please tell me, what is the use in having these lads along if they aren't going to be given enough game time? Experience training with the squad doesn't cut it for me. They need to be given game time.

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Wonder if the Trap worshippers would be still trying to defend him today if Cech hadn't made a late, woeful mistake of allowing a shot slip by him at the near post.

Some friends of mine vowed never to come to a match, saying they were bored enough watching Trap style on tele. With tickets a tenner, convinced five of them to come last night and the visit only reinforced their view.

What they observed of our super manager was:
Plan A: Given pump it into the air for Long to flick on, wingers win a few frees and hope for best from set pieces.
Plan B: Ditto (replace Long with Walters).

Someone sitting in the stand on 30k per year, never mind the 30K per week Trap is on, could see McGeady's legs were gone after an hour. Yet, he leaves him on for another 20 mins. It was his first game in about 4 months, what did he expect!

The game also showed that Stephen Ward is not ready for even a medium level of international football. Full of commitment etc but too many times got caught out. The Euro opponents will go to town on him.

The worst thing is there's plenty of options there. Our form player McClean should have on at HT and Wilson has been far better in the EPL this season than Ward.

But never mind, at least the rankings were protected.

One thing I would mention about the goal was the apparent absence of the midfield, I mean it was Duff who was putting in the tackle, but where were Whelan and Andrews? It was kind of the opposite of how we are supposed to play under Trap, the central midfield pairing are supposed to be sitting back in front of the centre halves?

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Originally Posted by Alf Honn

Wonder if the Trap worshippers would be still trying to defend him today if Cech hadn't made a late, woeful mistake of allowing a shot slip by him at the near post.

Some friends of mine vowed never to come to a match, saying they were bored enough watching Trap style on tele. With tickets a tenner, convinced five of them to come last night and the visit only reinforced their view.

What they observed of our super manager was:
Plan A: Given pump it into the air for Long to flick on, wingers win a few frees and hope for best from set pieces.
Plan B: Ditto (replace Long with Walters).

Someone sitting in the stand on 30k per year, never mind the 30K per week Trap is on, could see McGeady's legs were gone after an hour. Yet, he leaves him on for another 20 mins. It was his first game in about 4 months, what did he expect!

The game also showed that Stephen Ward is not ready for even a medium level of international football. Full of commitment etc but too many times got caught out. The Euro opponents will go to town on him.

The worst thing is there's plenty of options there. Our form player McClean should have on at HT and Wilson has been far better in the EPL this season than Ward.

But never mind, at least the rankings were protected.

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Not a dig at you or your mates, but does anyone know when Irish people became such connoisseurs of good football? Like our team now is no less exciting than it's ever been, with the possible exception of the latter Mick era. Under Staunton we were both disorganised AND scared of the football.

Bar the 4 points at best, no-one thinks we're going to to feck all in the Euros anyway.

So, ultimately, besides Grumphy's justification for his very existence, who really cares??

All due respect Ards.. I disagree completely. The Sports World is rife with crazy ****. Strange things do happen now in sport all the time for well prepared outfits.
I watch the Giants EVERY week, sometimes to the detriment of being sick, and I would nay tell ya Eli would ring up a second Super Bowl.
**** Truly Does happen.
So I think its wise to have the cards ready. Play the best hand and care about all of it, as it were.

If only Trap was as entertaining on the pitch

and this from Emmet Malone today

McCarthy and McClean too young for the Euro's? Bull****. How old were Whiteside/Pele/Maradonna when they played on the big stage. I'd rather he just admitted he wants to stick with the players he has worked with these last few years.

McCarthy not going I can deal with. He hasn't set the world alight and hasn't really progressed since his serious injury last season. McClean however has to be considered if his good form continues. We need players in the squad getting game time and full of confidence.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

and this from Emmet Malone today

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quite possibly the first time Giovanni Trapattoni paraphrased Kurt Cobain!

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

McCarthy and McClean too young for the Euro's? Bull****. How old were Whiteside/Pele/Maradonna when they played on the big stage. I'd rather he just admitted he wants to stick with the players he has worked with these last few years.

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Trap readily admits the experience factor being nr.1 in that IT article,
with Trapattoni highlighting “experience” as the priority when he selects his travelling party;

It follows that he considers McClean and McCarthy as having less experience to offer than the contenders.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Trap readily admits the experience factor being nr.1 in that IT article,
with Trapattoni highlighting “experience” as the priority when he selects his travelling party;

It follows that he considers McClean and McCarthy as having less experience to offer than the contenders.

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Whose fault is it that McCarthy doesn't have enough international experience?

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Originally Posted by geysir

Trap readily admits the experience factor being nr.1 in that IT article,
with Trapattoni highlighting “experience” as the priority when he selects his travelling party;

It follows that he considers McClean and McCarthy as having less experience to offer than the contenders.

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There is a difference between being 'too young' and being 'inexperienced'. You can be a 21 year old and have 4 years experience of senior football. Conversely you could be a 30 year old and have spent 13 years of your career sitting on a bench gaining no experience whatsoever.

The quotes the IT artictle uses is 'too young'. I've not seen nor read the full transcript of the full press conference/interview. James McCarthy is 21 but has 6 years of first team football behind him. 3 of those seasons being spent in the EPL (top flight football). Paul Green is 28 but has spent most of his time at Championship/League 1 level. McCarthy is surely the player with the most 'top flight' experience out of the two players. Darron Gibson played 31 times for United over a 7 year period!! What bracket does he come under?

McClean is 22, he is no pup. We aren't talking about a kid. He seems level headed and has taken to the EPL like a duck to water. He needs to be on the plane. Bump Hunt from the list if need be.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

There is a difference between being 'too young' and being 'inexperienced'. You can be a 21 year old and have 4 years experience of senior football. Conversely you could be a 30 year old and have spent 13 years of your career sitting on a bench gaining no experience whatsoever.

The quotes the IT artictle uses is 'too young'. I've not seen nor read the full transcript of the full press conference/interview. James McCarthy is 21 but has 6 years of first team football behind him. 3 of those seasons being spent in the EPL (top flight football). Paul Green is 28 but has spent most of his time at Championship/League 1 level. McCarthy is surely the player with the most 'top flight' experience out of the two players. Darron Gibson played 31 times for United over a 7 year period!! What bracket does he come under?

McClean is 22, he is no pup. We aren't talking about a kid. He seems level headed and has taken to the EPL like a duck to water. He needs to be on the plane. Bump Hunt from the list if need be.

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Agree overall. However, Gibson played 60 times for Man Utd in all competitions including a CL SF+QF, FA Cup SF and 2 LC Finals. So he has more quality experience than most, if not the quantity.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Whose fault is it that McCarthy doesn't have enough international experience?

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Irrelevant to Shakermaker's post that I was replying to.

Whose fault is it that McCarthy doesn't have enough international experience?
I don't regard that fact as a blame game exercise.
Every party has their responsibility, including McCarthy. Had he been fit enough to take part in the RDS friendlies, he quite possibly would have received the same opportunity that was offered and taken by Green for this qual campaign. One can only speculate.
Possibly you are alluding that it is Trap's responsibility? I'd see his culpability when he gave McCarthy a very difficult role in that friendly.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

There is a difference between being 'too young' and being 'inexperienced'. You can be a 21 year old and have 4 years experience of senior football. Conversely you could be a 30 year old and have spent 13 years of your career sitting on a bench gaining no experience whatsoever.

The quotes the IT artictle uses is 'too young'. I've not seen nor read the full transcript of the full press conference/interview. James McCarthy is 21 but has 6 years of first team football behind him. 3 of those seasons being spent in the EPL (top flight football). Paul Green is 28 but has spent most of his time at Championship/League 1 level. McCarthy is surely the player with the most 'top flight' experience out of the two players. Darron Gibson played 31 times for United over a 7 year period!! What bracket does he come under?

McClean is 22, he is no pup. We aren't talking about a kid. He seems level headed and has taken to the EPL like a duck to water. He needs to be on the plane. Bump Hunt from the list if need be.

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I am not arguing against your opinion, or getting nitty picky over the meaning of words in an article. I'm just pointing out that Trap has said and is well understood to have said, that experience is his criteria for inclusion in the squad.

If we were to discuss what experience means :)
afaiu, when Trap mentions experience, it's not necessarily caps/game time, but an attitude in the player that readily understands the role he expects them to perform on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Whose fault is it that McCarthy doesn't have enough international experience?

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I assume Trap would say you can gain experience in other ways than playing internationals (i.e. in club football)