GUST apply for first division licence

1. Mr. McDonnell is a Dundalk fan, even if he's from the suburbs of Ardee. The writer in the Herald, Mr. Fitzmaurice, is a Bohs fan, no harm to it. There's no problem with reporters following a local club, I'd rather they did that (like writers in the Star, Mirror, Sun etc) than be bull merchants whose heads are floated only by the sky leagues.
2. I'm confused with GUST, are they going to start a completely new club full on (Galway City or County or Twee's Rovers or some such) or do a kind of sly way of nabbing a name as others currently in the league have done?
3. I've no problem with clubs going under if they overstretch, though there is a rule in place in some European countries (I'm going to find the exact section here in Russia) where they cannot re-enter in any form from the city/region in the same division as the next team from there - for example Saturn Ramenskoye are now playing under the licence of their reserve team Saturn-2 (2nd Division West). The system is too messed up in Ireland for anyone with half a head to back a club and develop it.

There should a lot stronger licencing criteria re debt, unsecured borrowings, ownership of grounds, etc. If the debt of any club exceeds one years turnover, then alarm bells should be ringing. Stricter

Lets face it, some clubs will never be able to properly police and regulate themselves, like Galway United from 2008-2010. In hindsight, GUST should have pulled the plug on support for GUFC during this period.

It is very difficult for any supporters group to say "We are going to walk away from the club we love, and let it fold".

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Originally Posted by passerrby

Simple Louth if a new entity is looking to carry on the franchise then they must take a sanction if it's a whole new club then they must come from the lower leagues and not from a reconstructed management . This is not meant as a dig a Galway but the league as a whole

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There are no lower leagues! Division One is the lower league.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

To walk away from that, practically untouched in some cases, clearly isn't fair on clubs who have stuggled to pay their way and suffered on the field.

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GUST did not really walk away. The club was well past the point collapsing was inevitable. Leeson was pushing to be repaid money he had the cheek to claim he didn't pay himself. There just was no way Galway United FC would be given a license. The club may have applied for a license, but they would never have been given one. Their statement that strongly suggested GUST dropped them in it was absolute BS.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

There are no lower leagues! Division One is the lower league.

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so where did salthill and mervue play before they joined the LOI and A Champoinship

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Originally Posted by Louth4sam

In recent times you have Rovers, Cork, Derry, Drogs and now Galway who will likely get rewarded for not living within their means. Why should other clubs play by the rules.

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Disgraceful comment.

We have not been rewarded. We have been left helpless for years while our club has been slowly disgraced and destroyed. Any bridges we had with anybody were burnt to cinders.

The longer the whole thing went on, perhaps the more it dawned on the supporters that running a football club isn't the preserve of suits who actually do very little of the work involved, but have all the power to screw it up royally.

We never had any sort of say in the club, but seeing it go out of business was always the absolute last thing we wanted to see. We don't even know if GUST will be admitted into the league. It wasn't some big clever plan. God knows what the licensing committee will do if leaned on by their masters.

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Originally Posted by passerrby

so where did salthill and mervue play before they joined the LOI and A Champoinship

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A completely different league system with no promotion to the League of Ireland.

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Originally Posted by gufcfan

Disgraceful comment.

We have not been rewarded. We have been left helpless for years while our club has been slowly disgraced and destroyed. Any bridges we had with anybody were burnt to cinders.

The longer the whole thing went on, perhaps the more it dawned on the supporters that running a football club isn't the preserve of suits who actually do very little of the work involved, but have all the power to screw it up royally.

We never had any sort of say in the club, but seeing it go out of business was always the absolute last thing we wanted to see. We don't even know if GUST will be admitted into the league. It wasn't some big clever plan. God knows what the licensing committee will do if leaned on by their masters.

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A simple yes or no question for you. Will GUST try and buy back Galway United's name, history etc. at a future date?

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Originally Posted by Louth4sam

A simple yes or no question for you. Will GUST try and buy back Galway United's name, history etc. at a future date?

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I can't give you that answer. I'm not involved. As far as I'm concerned, the fans are the "owners" of the club and what the club achieved in the past will always be the property of the fans. It wouldn't surprise me if they did buy it back, but there are so many more important things to worry about before then. Get a licence, get a team signed, start building a club from scratch, build youth structures, keep building the reputation of GUST among (what's left of) the business community in Galway.

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Originally Posted by passerrby

Simple Louth if a new entity is looking to carry on the franchise then they must take a sanction if it's a whole new club then they must come from the lower leagues and not from a reconstructed management . This is not meant as a dig a Galway but the league as a whole

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I think you are right here PB.

Companies going under (as will inevitably happen with GUFC Ltd.) happens all the time in society, more so recently. Liquidation, examinership, receivership all happen day on day out. It is the main reason for setting up a company in the first place, protection.

Football, here anyway, is slightly different though as the name generally lives on following insolvency. Under company law the company debt is dealt with at the time the company enters examinership and/or goes under. I.e the debts die with the company, excluding personally guaranteed debt (the vast portion of debt Galway United FC ltd have is personally guaranteed by the directors of the company btw).

Anyway long story short, the FAI nor anyone can operate outside of the laws of the land and straddle new legal entities with old debt from insolvent companies.

However they do have a trump card:
should they choose they could impose football sanctions, and make them specific for When new entities (GUST FC, CC FORAS, DERRY) spring up and want to be know as the old entity.
If new clubs want the old identity they should be relegated to the bottom division (1st. Div currently) and perhaps they should then be prevented from gaining promotion for 3 or even 5 years. Or a salary cap, prevented from having more than X pro players etc.
The choice then would be easy, new club OR old club but not able to progress for a period of time to be an example to others.

The fact Derry (I'm not an expert on DCFC so apologies if wrong here) & Cork folded (albeit last option or otherwise), regrouped and went back up debt free is a joke really - and ask any of their fans if they are the same club now or not?

However it is important these regions have league representation so for the good of the league they are here, not sure I like the how though.

The FAI should be a lot quicker with points deductions for any clubs found breaking the financial rules.

We've seen a few times where clubs have allegedly (read:almost certainly) been outside the stipulations of the participation agreement, but the FAI aren't likely to deny half the league a Premier Division licence, or throw them out of the league. It doesn't look good for them, and it's ultimately counterproductive.

Obviously giving teams fines doesn't work either. You're not going to solve a lack of money in a club by taking money from them.

So we're left with points deductions. They don't make a complete shambles of the league, like wholesale punishment relegations, they are scaleable, and they are applicable mid-season, so no just scraping things by at license time.

The FAI need to take a hard stand on this, or there will always be clubs who ignore the rules.

Isn't a points deduction basically a delayed fine?

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Isn't a points deduction basically a delayed fine?

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If you look at the club purely as a business. However, clubs trying to buy success are going to take you a lot more seriously if you directly attack that success, instead of indirectly, a year or two down the line, when they go bankrupt and bail on their debts.

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Originally Posted by Louth4sam

I really don't think that is much of a deterrent either. If Cork got a point deduction the season they bought the history, crest etc it wouldn't have made much difference as they were not going to get promoted anyway.

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This is garbage. It doesn't matter if they were going to get promotion or not. It makes no difference.

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If a new entity wants to acquire the previous ones's history it should also acquire it's debts by default.

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Yeah thats fine in dreamland... but not in the real world.

Then thats we're they should start the new club , and promotion to the loi should be based on a clubs ability to show a decent past as well as a future

Most of the measures mentioned so far are aimed at making it more difficult / costly for a new holding company to acquire the name and history of the club. I have no problems with a points deduction and or assumption of some portion of debt if a new entity wants to acquire the old club's name and history.

But, in line with what Eminence Grise said earlier, there needs to be a greater deterrent regarding the people running the club in the first place. I know there are some consequences for a director of a club that goes into administration, but it seems that people running a club can walk away without significant material penalties, albeit with damage to their reputation. What methods of punishment are there at the moment for directors of a club?

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Originally Posted by passerrby

Then thats we're they should start the new club , and promotion to the loi should be based on a clubs ability to show a decent past as well as a future

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I from what I've been told (but don't quote me as I have nothing to do with the trust) GUSTFC will go down that route if needs be, just to have a club to support, but the rules aren't there for this to happen. GUSTFC want to start at the bottom of the LOI structure as it stands today which is in the first division so have applied for this licence.

FAO Louth4sam. The trust have said time and time again that they have no plans at the moment in buying the past, they intent to invest in a future first, and build a club which will have a history for generations to come for the people of the city and county of Galway to support.

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Originally Posted by L.T.F.C.

This is garbage. It doesn't matter if they were going to get promotion or not. It makes no difference.

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So you feel a 10 point deduction is a good deterrent if it has absolutely no bearing on the league apart from a few thousand in prize money?

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Originally Posted by Louth4sam

So you feel a 10 point deduction is a good deterrent if it has absolutely no bearing on the league apart from a few thousand in prize money?

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Last season in the first division, there wass absolutely no deifference in 'prize' money between finish 5th and 12th. All 8 clubs got €5,000 (the same as clubs who finished 8th-10th in the premier)

Points deduction only affect teams challenging for titles (as I know all too well....)

Not really a fan of points deductions as they bring the League into disrepute (Pats/Shels debacle). I cant see a magic bullet solution for this problem but it might help if

(1) no new club could re register name/history/colours etc for at least five years from demise of "old club"

(2) Any new club (in LOI) would be required to deposit a considerable bond with FAI for duration of first season. This would make it more difficult for newer clubs to join the LOI but would also go some way towards deterring the issues raised.

No matter how good the intention of the applicants, no club should be allowed into the LOI without proper financial viability.